Panasonic 80 minute tapes
 

Can anyone offer any opinions, experience, useful information about the Panasonic 80 min MiniDV tapes?

I have an even shoot coming up in a couple of weeks (dance school concert), and using the 80 minute tapes would get me out of that bind of having to change tapes during each half.

All thoughts graciously received.

Thanks,

marks

Mark...........
 

You don't say what format you're shooting - DV or HDV

You don't say what camera - ? (not that that info is really of any value)

You don't say whether you use these tapes regularly or not?

You don't say what tapes you usually shoot on?

If you :

a. Normally (and in this case) shoot DV,
b. Don't use these these tapes as a matter of course, and want to try them: -

Then - run a cleaning tape through the cam beforehand, do the shoot, run the cleaning tape again and see how it goes.

If you :

a. Shoot HDV

b. Don't normally use these tapes

then IMPO don't even think about it.

If you :

Want to try it:

Do a test run beforehand and see if you get a dropout shitstorm. If so, guess you'd better not use them. If not, why not.


CS

Hi Chris,

My bad.

* I have never used these before.
* We will be shooting DV.
* The event will be shot with 4 Panasonic DVX100's. The cameras will be hired, so I don't know what tapes are normally used in them.
* The Concert will comprise two roughly 1-hour halves, but I can't rely on the length.

If the quality and performance is as per the usual 60min tapes, then it will save me having to co-ordinate tape changes across the cameras, and also simplify the subsequent edit.

So, the question is a logistical one, but not something I want to gamble with on the night, hence the question about other people's experiences and thoughts.

Hope this fills in some details.

Ciao,

marks

Hi Mark...
 

What can I say?

The general concensus (if there is, indeed, a general concensus) is that 80 minute Mini DV tapes are to viewed with profound suspicion.

There have been a number of other posts here that swear by them, used them since the 1920's and never had a problem, yada, yada, yada.

I shoot HDV entirely and have a major problem with dropouts even on the best tapes @ 63 minutes.

I used to shoot DV on the same tapes (different camera) and never once had a problem.

Go figure!

Can anyone give you an accurate answer to your question?

Don't think so.

On hired gear (suspect in itself),

80 minute tapes (oooh, dodgy)

..............well, you get the idea.

My gut feeling?

I reckon they'll be fine (don't quote me on this).

New tapes (they will be new?).

Clean camera tape paths? (You will clean them, right?)

Probably be smoother than a baby's bum and not a glitch in sight.

Unless, of course, it's not.

If you get another 100 posts on this subject, they will, almost without fail, swing somewhere between one extreme or the other on this subject, and not one will be in any better position to enlighten your decision.

Your call, my friend.


CS

We often use Panasonic 83 mins tapes on both DV and HDV shoots in a variety of Sony cameras - DSR 300s, FX1s, A1s and have never had a problem. But it's no surprise that Chris is wary of them when he has problems with 63 mins tapes.

If you're hiring cameras, why not try and get hold of a dsr500 or 570? They take the large DVcam tapes so you can get 184mins of uninterruped recording on one tape (subject to batteries, of course). Or, try and hire a firestore or something similar for longer recording

Certainly food for thought here...
 

4 cams? 2 hrs each? 8 hrs - a whole normal workday - of capture time? With an audience eager to see results? (Or is it live-switched)? I don't envy you.

Have you no way to go tapeless?

D

Paul:

Hiring cameras -- but with a budget, and since I don't have a lot of experience with a wide range of gear, I just want to play it safe.

Denis:

Come on, I can hear the envy in your words ;-) This is a labour of love as much as anything. Will have two experienced Cam. Ops. (left and right), but one static wide toward the back, and one central for closer pans (me).

The school got sick of Vid Co's turning up at the last second, with no prep, and then paying good money for a crap product. I had done some behind the scenes stuff for them (my daughter is a senior in the school) and so they asked me if I would run it this year. Got a good crew and my job will be more directing than cam. op. Basically, they know that I care, which I do.

No live switching (I'm not ready for that!). Fortunately for me Vegas 8 now has support for multi-cam edits (max. 4 cameras). I have done some experimenting and this will make my life a whole lot easier. With all the same cameras and white balancing, colour should be close to right, and my job should be mainly shot selection. It will be easier than some of the stuff that I have done, since each item will be a discrete unit, rather than attempting to put together a dance/music film clip.

But the longer tapes will mean I don't have to be so concerned with the logistics of tape co-ordination (and subsequent resync issues).

Mike:

My head DoP (recently shot a short film I wrote) is also happy with the tapes, so I think the idea is a go.



Thanks for all the feedback. Still interested if anyone else has relevant thoughts.

Ciao,

marks

I use them, and only had a small bit drop problem with one tape (the first time I switched from the 63 minute to the 83!), since then though - I have used them frequently this year and haven't had an issue with them.

Lets put it this way - I plan on ordering the 83 minute tapes again for next years stock.

Ryan

Tape Snags
 

Avoid AMQ. They are a finer grain tape, on longer shoots there can be probs with SD cameras that have any kind of wear on them. Panny PQ's should work out fine for you.

If the casing is the same, then I guess the tapes must be thinner to fit. Will that be a problem (on the long term) for burn through? I don't know, maybe some expert might tell us.

Stelios

You've got four cameras... it's unlikely that you'll have problems that you can't cut around.

Balance that against a screw-up when you change tapes... you have a very small level of risk either way. But it should be something you can cut around.

It's likely more worthwhile worrying about other things that can go wrong, like poor camerawork / communication. e.g. cameras not matching being one camera is overexposed, that kind of thing.

Hi Mark--

Just to elaborate on Stephen's comments; I've used the Panny DVMPQ83s, with mixed results. (Shooting with Canon XL2) I think a total of four times, mostly with timelapse footage. Two out of the four times, I had major dropouts; but the other two were fine. (One tape mishap could've been caused by condensation, but the cam didn't give me the condensation warning).

I still have a couple of blank PQ83s, but I'm reluctant to use them now. So, IMHO, I'd advise against using the DVMPQ83s specifically.

Oh, and I think Glenn has the right idea :)

Best,

--JA
www.madjavaproductions.com

I have always wondered about the Panasonic 83 minute tapes.

To me, it appears obvious that a Panasonic 63 minute tape is not full, in other words, there is room for much more tape in the cassette.

Also, it appears, to me, that 20 minutes of extra tape could easily be placed into the cassette, using the same thickness of tape.

So, I feel, without any special knowledge or fact, that the 83 minute cassettes use the exact same tape as the 63 minute cassettes. I would love to know if this is true or not.

If so, then the actual dropout experience should be approximately the same with either length.

The 83 minutes tapes use thinner tape???

If you rewind a 60 minute tape, it looks pretty full?

I've used these tapes in Sony and Canon DV cameras without problems. I don't do it often, but when videoing recitals and such I HAVE used them due to time problems. These days, with multiple cams and multiple shooters, I stagger the change-over times and never have more than one camera at a time 'down' for a tape/battery change.

Also, since you're renting gear, I'd for sure run head cleaners through the cameras beforehand. (and use new tapes)

Good luck!

Mark

I used the Panasonic AY-DVM83MQ Mini DV Master tapes when I shot a conference about four years ago. I can't remember experiencing any problems with them.

Me again.............
 

Having had time to reflect on this subject some more, what do you think of this plan of attack?

Remember when they used to recomend you ran your tapes through the camera "blind" (lens cap on, record to complete tape) to ensure constant time code? I believe it was more an NLE issue with missing time code than a camera/ tape problem, but I digress.

Seems to me (and some may well disagree) that all my dropouts happen, strangely enough, on brand spanking new tapes. Would I get the dropout in the same place if I re - wrote it a second time? Don't know, can't say, never used one twice.

However, if you take the situation where a piece of crud has, by chance, found it's way onto the tape during manufacture, running the tape through the camera would, most likely, cause said crud to get flicked/ wiped off, giving a spectacular dropout in the process.

What if you run all your tapes "blind" before the shoot? (don't suppose it even needs to be the same camera(s)), and at least you have 1. Permanent time code (crud situations allowing) 2. De - crud'ed tape to the best of your ability.

Could all be a complete load of hogwash, but taking this further still, if a tape is going to self destruct (are 80 minute tapes more likey to do so - are they really thinner tape - does anyone really know?) it's odds on to fail first time if at all.


Just something to mull over.


CS

Moderator Note: A cross-posted thread in the Wedding / Event forum was merged into this one. Please see the Code of Conduct on the Policy Page. Thanks.

OK, I'll bite.....
 

Peter - what was that about?

As I plead "not guilty, M'lud" to all charges (heck, I'll plead insanity, if I have to), what were you trying to say, to whom?


CS

Hmm,

Peter,

This is probably my bad; I posted in two groups just to try and stimulate a response as it is an important and somewhat pressing issue for me.

So, Chris is innocent and I stand corrected (I have since read the cross-posting policy).

Apologies,

marks

Ok, mea culpa out of the way..........
 

Mark,

Read and inwardly digest the post that was so rudely interupted, and see if there is any merit in it whatsoever (apart from the penance of having to sit there whilst cameras do diddly squat for hours on end but run tape - JOY!)

Naughty boy, smack hand.


CS

Thanks Chris,

I shall read and indeed digest.

Peace,

marks

Personally, I do not "Stripe" (record the tape using the lens cap on) my tapes.

I do, however, fast forward the tape to the end, and then rewind it.

Back in the 60's, we were using reel to reel tape and this was considered standard practice. The purpose was to ensure that one layer of tape was not "stuck" to another, causing a minor drag on the tape, causing a minor drop in speed, as the tape was recorded.

Quality tapes are today built to much more exacting standards, and they are sealed in a cassette, and wrapped in a plastic film. However, I still follow this practice.

I think that it may help. The same benefit, if any, would be achieved by "Striping" the tape, but it takes much longer.

Jumping in a little late but just to add my experience...

My partner and I have done a number of 2 to 6 camera shoots that up to recently were all in the DV format. We have used Canon and Panosonic cameras for the most part and whenever we'd buy tapes for a shoot we'd always get at least a 5 pack or two of 80+ minutes Panasonic tapes to ensure that at least one camera was running when the others were switching.

I'm guessing (because I'm not in front of my wall of tapes right now) that I must have in the neighborhood of 50-80 tapes of the 80+ minute variety and I've probably already pulled more than half of them for editing without any issues. Some have been sitting on the shelf for 2+ years that I haven't pulled yet as projects get put on indefinite hold sometimes so maybe one of them will be problematic.

So add me to the 80+ min. tapes are okay (at least for DV) list.

-K

Kevin,

Thanks for your feedback. I have decided to use the 80 minute tapes. Speaking to people (and hearing for videographers such as yourself) indicates that the quality etc is fine, and the logistical benefits are worth the extra cost.

Ciao,

marks