Sony HDV Tape stock question
 

On a Sony HVR-V1U camera I've used exclusively their PHDVM-63DM Digital Master tapes. I'm thinking about buying more, but have been looking at the DVM-63HDV as a cost-cutting measure. Are they really that much different than the "Digital Master" tapes? Will I experience more dropouts or any quality loss in my recording?

Would a change of tapes from the "Digital Masters" to the DVM-63HDV tapes gum up the camera?

Thanks for any tips!

Back when I was shooting the Z1U for a client on a VERY regular basis, we ONLY used Digital Master tapes on "Once In A Lifetime, If It Gets Screwed Up We Are Sunk" material, like when we travelled to Germany and India. The rest of the time we used DVM60PR tapes with no issues.

If it's in the budget, use "good" tape. If it's TIGHT, use the PR's.

Shaun,
Thanks for the info. You never know how much is sales tactics and how much is really a quality jump.

Arturo, don't get me wrong - I PERSONALLY think it IS better tape but do you NEED better tape in your application? Again, once in a lifetime stuff or long term archival stuff has such intrinsic value that it only makes sense but shoot today, capture today and reshoot tomorrow IF a dropout killed the ONE frame that was absolutely ESSENTIAL? That's DVM60PR to me. Traveling half way around the world after getting Visas and travel documents and... no brainer - even premium tape is CHEAP compared to reshooting.

HDV has increased risk to dropouts due to the long GOP codec compared to DV; at least I have noticed an increase but I have ALWAYS been able to work around tape issues SO FAR, most of which I find are actually MPEG related as opposed to tape dropouts.

I have run probably close to a 1000 of the cheap Sony DV Tapes and never had a single dropout. I have also used a stack of the HDV (expensive ones) and the Premium's also with no probs.
The other day someone gave me some JVC Pro HD tapes, I cleaned the heads, used the JVC Tapes and had a dropout on each tape. Went back to 'el cheapo Sony's' and not a single dropout.

I was under the impression that the JVC's were high end, in my opinion they are very average, in fact I actually threw 10 tapes in the bin as I just don't want to use them.

Jonathan, I've posted a series of comments about my experience mixing JVC tape and Sony gear and vice versa and I PERSONALLY haven't had any luck. I now shoot JVC cameras and swear by the ProHD stock BUT make sure that I never mix formulations. You aren't alone but I do think ProHD is high quality stock, just NOT for use with Sony gear.

Oh well if you lived closer I would give them to you ; )

Send them by Carrier Koala!

No worries.

LOL, funny b'stard!

Same here, I've gone through about 1,800+ DVM60 Premium tapes and never had any issues either. Initially I got them because B&H gives you a better price when you buy in bulk. But then I found, if there's one tape you're gonna find out in the middle of nowhere, it's probably going to be the Sony DVM60s. Done a lot of traveling in out of the way places, and found them in some of weirdest and unexpected places. Sony definitely is hooked into a an insane distribution network. So that's another plus for that particular tape and for Sony.

Yup. I couldn't agree more. Found them in Brazil and India in somewhat "out of the way" locations. And unlike Coca Cola, DVM60PR's in Brazil don't contain Guarana! <long story>

Long story? Please do tell!

Andrew

I keep hearing mentions of Sony DVM63 "Premium" tapes. Which of these 3 does "Premium" refer to?

DVM60PRR
DVM-63HDR
or
PHDVM63DM

I had always assumed the term "Premium" was referring to the "Digital Master" tapes. Thanks for clearing it up.

These were "branded" as Premium during the early days (Red Package) and the PR refers to premium. Bit of nonsense really since they are pretty much the lowest quality tapes Sony makes in the 6mm line but nomenclature is nomenclature...

Short version:
I was in Recife, Brazil in July of 2001. I get motion sick if I'm not driving. I wasn't driving. In addition, I was in the back seat of a VW Combi van stuck in rush hour traffic in 30+ degree Celsius (90ish degrees fahrenheit) heat. LOTS of 2 cycle motorcycles around and other sources of air pollution. I was GREEN. My local fixer (who saved my life literally on a number of occasions) noticed and decided I needed green coconut milk to settle my stomach and headed off to find some from a street vendor while we were traffic locked. Comes back twenty minutes later with a coconut with a hole in it and a straw.

NOPE, that didn't help. I "contributed" to the pollution on the street that day.

Decided the ONLY thing that was going to help my stomach out (after days of drinking nothing but FAR too sweet fruit juice and amazing coffee (and great beer)) was the most ubiquitous drink in the world, the drink that can be GUARANTEED (funny how close to GUARANA that is...) to taste the same ANY WHERE IN THE WORLD.

Stopped an hour later when we finally got out of the traffic jam and I all but crawled into a grocery store and bought the NECTAR OF THE GODS! My Coke! My Kingdom for this Coke! Took the biggest POSSIBLE swig of it to knock back the awful taste in my stomach and what do I taste?

GUARANA! The caffeine in Coke in Brazil comes from GUARANA. There is something about that taste I JUST CAN'T STAND OR STOMACH...

Don't get me wrong - I loved Brazil and the Brazilians I met were PHENOMENAL people who were very warm to us. How they can drink that vile substance I will never know!

Ok, it wasn't the short version but for full effect, that's as short as I can make it.

So you found your Brazilian a bit painful did you Shaun? :-)

I'm with you on the JVCPro HD tapes though they can be a bit hard to find over here.
I still use the JVC-DV60DE tapes on Standard Def jobs.

I'm interested in what you said about MPEG problems - can you explain explain more?

A lot of the issues I have found with capturing material from Sony and JVC HDV cameras alike that Final Cut Pro reports as timecode breaks are more related to the long GOP MPEG stream not being closed properly at start/stop points (and with Sony ESPECIALLY at points where the pause was long enough for the head drum assembly to "spin down") and not from REAL drop outs which can be typically characterized by a pixelization of material during playback.

Shaun, does the video play back OK on the cameras' LCDs when FCP reports these capture problems ?

I know it's hard to say without actually seeing them, but I've been assuming that occasional "dropouts" characterised by an approx 1 sec image freeze (no pixellation) are dirty head/tape quality issues. Cameras involved are all canon HV-30s. What do you think?

Colin:

The errors I'm talking about indeed play back normally. My thoughts on the image freeze are mere speculation: it may depend on whether the camera has error suppression logic built in to deal with dropouts (like the blue screen that comes up on VCRs when there is no signal, for example). A freeze also SEEMS like the sort of thing that would come from an improperly closed MPEG stream as the decoder would need an "i frame" to begin playback again after a corrupt MPEG stream and then due to the GOP, it should take half a second before it sees the next "i frame".

Again, mere speculation based of educated guesses here. All I can offer.

I used the best HDV tapes for awhile, then discovered that the cheapest type that Sony makes, really are "premium". I have had no glitches with them so far and a few have been used for utility clip re-recording, a dozen times or so. At 3 bucks or less a pop, I'm not going to complain about having to pay so little.

It may actually be like the contact lens scandal. One company was selling the kind that can be used continually, in three quality-levels and prices. Then, it was revealed that the $100. type that lasted a year, was exactly the same as the $25. ones, that were rated for only a month.

I know that at ONE point, Sony differentiated quality of tape stock by WHERE in the wide path of manufacturing the stock was cut from - the centre cuts were Broadcast or Master grade while the outer cuts were sold as "regular" tape stock.

I remember seeing a Sony Broadcast poster explaining the difference with their premium HDV stock as having higher magnetic potential and a better base layer so that stretching and long term storage SHOULD have less effect.