VTR Decisions - Sony versus JVC DV Decks
 

Submitted this in the editing section but think here might be more appropriate. I'm considering a VTR deck for DV capture and final output to tape and the choices are boiling down to a decision between Sony and JVC at two different price ranges. In the lower range I'm looking at the JVC BR-DV3000U and the Sony DSR-11 while at the upper end I'm looking at the JVC-BR6000U and the Sony DSR-25. Would like to hear some user comments pro and con on each of these options. Primary role will be capture of miniDV camera original into the NLE - Vegas or Premiere Pro - with possibilty of an occasional need to record final prgram back to tape.

In a related issue, the Sonys will both record and playback DVCAM as well as DV while the JVC's playback both DV and DVCAM but only record to DV. In fact, it seems Sony is positioning their recorders as DVCAM units with an added ability to also work with DV, while JVC seems to position theirs as primarily DV with DVCAM playback added. How crucial a factor should this be in the purchase decision? I'm thinking that the times when I'll be recording to the VTR, the resulting tapes would be intended for primarily for corporate clients and secondarily broadcast submission - seems that DVCAM would be a better accepted delivery format than miniDV and the ability to record in that format would be a strong plus. Comments?

There was a Sony, DS10 I think, that was also battery powered. Not a real big point, but it would be nice on occasion.

Hi Steve,

I have a DSR-11, I bought it because it was the most cost effective DVCAM deck I could get at the time that could ingest PAL in addition to NTSC. I already had some other sony DVCAM gear so that made my decision easier. Since then I've found I really appreciate it's compact size and very fast tape fast rewinding. It's also great to take along for recording long meetings or training sessions.

The drawbacks that I've found are that it has no ability to generate timecode and has analog output setup at 0 with no ability to switch to 7.5. There are work arounds, but my next deck will have those capabilities built-in.

Best Regards,

Greg

If I had the budget for a DSR-11, I'd spend a few more dollars and get an HDV deck like the new Sony HVR-M15U.

I have been thinking about this too (other kit has higher priority). That would give you ingest for 1080i Sony and JVC 720p. Wider options for projects you could do.

Here's another option just released by Sony and my favorite at the moment.

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...06&p=16&sp=142
The M25U is next on my shopping list. Does all you want AND HDV!!

Cheers

Jeremy

Just discovered that myself! Had just about decided on a DSR-25 but now I'm gonna wait. Will rent if I need something in the meantime. The M25U looks very promising!

M10u
 

Guys,

Sorry about the cross posting, but I need some shopping help and I might do better here: Trying to decide between M10U and the M15U. M10U has a screen and is portable, can be used with an NP-970 battery. M15 is a bigmouth AC only and no monitor. I know what the obvious answers are: My question is would I be better off with the M15 (I playback thru AJA KONA 2) for overall utility value?

Thanks,


Jack Hubbard

Transport
 

Boyd Ostroff tells me the M10U may have the same transport as the Z1, which is more delicate than a bonafide tape deck. It apparently also has a slow rewind time compared to the new decks. Anybody know the answer?

The M10U has also been discontinued, from the looks of things. It sounds like it just wasn't up to grade, even if it was a great idea.

M10u
 

Thanks, Keith. Makes sense.
Jack

No problem Jack, I had been looking at the 10U myself. And, as I get closer to having the cash to get my gear, it starts showing up as discontinued. That's the way my days go... *sigh*.

Sony had to release a deck when they brought out the FX1 and Z1 otherwise they would have been in the poo. I saw the M10U as an intermediate device and never got one - somehow I had the feeling that a better deck would come. Little did I know what the upside would be. I have been using a borrowed deck and now need for Sony to get these things available asap.

What I like is HDV/DVCAM/DV all in one deck - and downconversion to 720p as well!!!!

This is going to make my life SO much easier

Cheers

Jeremy

B & H
 

Hi Keith,

B & H says they still have the M10U.

Jack

So, whats the difference between the 15U and 25U? From reading the specs, the only difference is the LCD on the 25U for another 1300 bucks.

Dave

According to the brochure on the Sony site, the M25U has SMPTE timecode with user bit while the M15U does not include the user bit. The M25U also can send the original camera recorded timecode out over the 1394 port when using it as a playback or dubbing deck - I gather the M15U replaces the original timecode with its own when acting as the source for dubbing. The M25U also has HDMI output, they both have downconversion of HDV to SD but the M25 adds adjustable cropping (??), manual control of audio recording levels and audio monitoring for thru headphones. Just from the looks of it, the M15U resembles the DSR-11 while the M25U resembles the DSR-25 and I'd guess like with those two, the M25's transport is similarly a bit more rugged of the two.

M10U Transport
 

Steve,

Is the M10U transport more delicate than the 15 or 25?

I think they found the 10U to be the same tape system that is used in the FX1 camera. In which case, it isn't really designed to do repeated tape shuttling.

I don't know. All I have to go on is the promotional brochure on the Sony website and was just guessing based on eyeballing the pictures. I've heard the M10 was somewhat fragile for heavy editing ingest duty since, as Keith says, it's based on the FX1 transport. (Isn't the Z1 reputed to have a more rugged transport than the FX1 as well?)

Tnx..
 

Thanks Guys,

This is very helpful.

Jack

The M10 was a cool design, but I have yet to hear from anyone who has actually used it. Same with the rest of the new Sony VTRs, nobody has really chimed in yet.

AFAIK they're not shipping yet.

Sure... That could be one reason. huh huh huh...

The M25U seems to be as rugged as the DSR25 workhorses we have been using. Weare migrating towards HD and have found the lack of HD component input on the M25U to be frustrating. We have no issues with using the firewire as an input for our HD stream but have not been able to find a mixer that takes firewire HD in and out.

Go to Sony's Pro website and you and click on one of the menus and see the comparisons

Some other differences here in Japan (US versions are not always the same specs.)
25U can copy the original time code from the tape being dubbed.
25U has edge crop adjustment
25Uhas a headphone jack
25U has HDMI output
25U has custom repeat functions (the 15U has only auto repeat) Gooid if you use the deck to demo a reel at a show.
25U has an assign button function

The 15U can be operated in a standing position - because of the monitor the 25U would look a bit strange in a standing position!?

The M10 was discontinued in April at the Japanese factory. But of course there are still a few around at resellers.

We have 3 M10Us in our rental business. No problems with them at all. Apart from so many menu options for downconvertion getting clients confused but that'll be the same on any HDV deck. Certainly I cannot see any difference between the transport in the M10U and the Z1/FX1. It works but I'd hardly call it a workhorse like our DSR-11s or DSR-45.

The new VCRs will take the D5 shell sized tapes so that's a BIG plus. When you need that, there's no way around it.

I personally own a DSR-11 which has paid for itself many times over so if SD is your only game they're still good value, well apart from the door breaking off if you're rough with it. The ability to handle PAL and NTSC is great, don't know why not having setup on the analogue outputs is an issue, never use the analogue output anyway.

But if you've got the money and want a bit of future proofing the new HDV decks would be the go. I've never had any faith in anything JVC, we've been badly burnt by their 500 camera, simply awesome camera when it used to work but $1,000s in repairs and it will still not eject a tape reliably. Plus as noted their decks will not record DVCAM, I tend to always record masters to DVCAM, just for extra bit of reliability.