I don't think it's going to be a problem if you're staying with a particular manufacturers tape, no matter if it's from Panny's PQ to AMQ.

Also, I've always heard it doesn't matter which manufacturers head cleaner you use as long as you stick to the trusted name brands.

Bill

Thanks for that Bill.

What I think I'll do regardless is record 60 minutes or so onto a AY-DVM63AMQ prior to actually filming the event.

Tape brands
 

Hi!
Just bought my brand new A1!
Do you guys use any tape brand or are there brands that are better or even damaging to the A1? I've heard generally some tapes can clog the video head (some people always use the same brand as the camera).
What are your experiences?
I found no old thread about this, but if you know one please help me find it.

Hi Urban,

Congratulations with your new beauty.
I myself use the JVC ProHD63ME and Sony DVM63 and 85 tapes.
Most of the time I use the JVC tape and when I switch I run my cleaning tape for 10 seconds.

This afternoon I send an email to a Dutch Magazine, asking them if they were willing to test all the new DV and HDV tapes and then write about it in the magazine ofcourse.

In the past someone did. He could use a professional lab from Sony to test all the tapes. I'm hoping they are willing to do a real test in the near future and bring some results.

Good luck with your beauty,

Gert

I use the panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ for HDV/DV and they have been great so far. Not the cheapest however.

Trish

An electronics repairman once told me never to run a cleaning tape in a camera, because "they work like sandpaper". Instead he recommended to clean the video head with other tools (which I wont' tell, because I'm not sure enough what it was or how to use them). So I'm quite cautious about using cleaning tapes! :) But that was off-topic.

Hello Urban,

This post should help you out : http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ighlight=tapes

Especially #12 by Mike, he describes it pretty well.

You should never use "other tools" to clean your camera. The possibility to mess it up is huge. A cleaning tape is made to clean the heads, not mess them up.

Any way check out the above thread, I think you will find the answers to your ?'s.

Scooter

Funny how there is so much mis-information out there.

I have two Sony HDR-FX1's and started by using Sony Premium tapes but have since moved to the Panasonic "professional quality" AY-DVM63PQ 63 Minute tapes and can say that the price/quality seems to be the way to go. I've not had any dropouts (never have anyway). I've probably put about 20 hours or so on each camera and have never run the cleaning tape through so now may be the time to do it.

Jon

Re: cleaning tapes. Sony's service center one time recommended that I use the cleaning tape every 50 hours for 5 seconds just for regular maintenance. I always did that and got the full estimated head life, sometimes more. Overuse of head cleaning tapes is not good, but proper use is.

Re: tapes. I switched to the Panasonic AMQ tapes for the XH A1. Haven't seen a dropout yet. They were recommended to me by a Canon dealer in Portland (who's a sponsor here-Zotz Digital). He's sold lots of Canon HDV cameras to wildlife photographers out there, and said most everybody he sells to is using the AMQ tapes successfully. Two other friends of mine here are using them in their XH A1s and so far no problems.

I got JVC M-DV63PROHD tapes after they were reccomended to me by one of the Canon guys at Videoforum 2007. Haven't seen them mentioned much on this forum but they were half the price of the Sony tapes and have served me well so far.

Tape brands
 

I think one key thing is that once you've settled on a brand of tape, stick with it. I've found that mixing brands can often lead to a battle between the dry lubricants used and subsequent head clogging issues. Personally, I'm using the Panasonic AMQ tapes with excellent results.

Canon HDV 63 min
 

Canon gave me a HDV 63 min tape with the camera which I used right away. I read many articles about using different brands and all of them said you should stick to one type.. so the only tape my camera will have inside is the Canon HDV 63 min. I don't mind though coz everything I use is Canon made anyway.

-John

1) Found any good place to buy them?

2) What do you (others) think about re-recording tapes?

3) Thanks, Scooter, for the thread. Very helpful.

In Europe, my experience is that you don't find HDV tapes easily in the shops, brands like Panasonic & JVC are really nowhere on the shelf. Forget Canon completely.

Sony and TDK are the only obvious ones, as I see. And to be honest: for 99% consumer ranges only.

If you find real HDV tapes, mostly in a very, very specialized (and expensive) pro-video shops: they wear excessive price tags.

I'm very interested in any test/review/report that proves on a hard scientific basis that the use of type of tapes is really worth this money. Never found anything on the internet... which is strange.

No, only in specialized photo web shops and local video rental companies. Maybe we can help each other find good 'discount' web shops in Europe, avoiding customs (the trade union really works, eh?)

I am too.

As with optical media, only a few companies manufacture tape. A lot of companies put their name on tape made for them by others. At one time Canon labeled tape was from Panasonic. Not sure who makes it today.

A known fact... for which I would like to see the 'scientific based' comparison, as stated.

(in Europe): I compared the Canon tape that came with the XH A1 with a Sony premium tape: tape cases are COMPLETELY IDENTICAL in every detail the same. If it should really be the same tape inside... price difference of factor 5 - 6X ?

I also discovered that the TDK tape sold over here is nearly identical with some (extremely bad) EMTEC DV tapes I bought a few years ago. While a german website has done comparisons between Sony/TDK & Fuji, and discovered that the cases were exactly the same between Sony & TDK.

The tapes I had were clearly different. Potentialy: the real manufacturer is even different per country and/or region.

But... even if the manufacturer is the same, it still doesn't tell anything about the tape inside. There might still be a huge difference in basic param's & quality control.

Absolutely yes there is. Tape is manufactured in rolls of big wide sheets, like aluminum foil or plastic wrap. Then it's thinly sliced, like pieces of sandwich meat. Slices coming from the middle of the roll are higher quality than the slices coming from the ends of the roll. Those middle slices are packaged, branded and sold as higher-grade, more expensive tape relative to the rest of the roll.

sony dvc tapes and canon A1
 

just wondering if anyone had used sony's standard bottom of the line mini-dvc tapes, the ones that come in the blue package (DVM60PRL), with the A1. I've got a few day shoot where the footage is going to be sped up for a time lapse effect so I will be using a lot of tapes. Anyone have problems with these?

Is there or is there not an actually difference in the tape itself between lower and higher grades. For example, are the recording particles different and is the substrate stronger or weaker?

Also, is there by chance a chart somewhere someone has created that compares the different qualities and brands of tape and the lubricants used (and perhaps groups them by similarity or compatability)?

I am going to buy and XH-A1 this week and have the dilemma about which tape to use.

I narrowed it down to the following three:
Panasonic DVM63AMQ ($6.95 each)
Sony DVM-63HD ($9.35 each)
JVC ProHD ($9.05 each)

How do I know what the differences are? How do I know which is most suitable to my purpose -- which is documentary, in regular weather as well as snow, with plane travel?

Why is the Panasonic tape cheaper?

Why is there another group of tapes from Sony and Pansonic that is 1-1/2 to 2 times the cost of these?

I am leaning toward the Pansonic for cost, since I will use quite a bit of tape. Currently I use Sony Premium in a PD150 and the JVC ProHD in a JVC HD110.

Canon XH-A1 recomended Tape
 

Canon recommends the Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ tapes for the XH-A1. I asked them point blank and they immediately suggested the Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ for the best results. I am not aware of any problems using this tape and I know many users.

Why are some HDV Tapes Cheaper?
 

Sony and JVC own the HDV format. They can use the HDV Logo freely. Maxell, Fuji and Panasonic have tapes suitable for HDV in plain plastic boxes with HDV on the label, but not the HDV logo. This saves them money as they are not paying for the official logo use to JVC and Sony.

Some tapes have more uniform metal evaporated particles and some have more particle density. Some tapes have double coating and some are center cuts to avoid tape curl. Some tapes use ABS Anti-Static Plastic Housings to avoid drop out caused from static charges built up by internal friction and so on. Tapes are not all the same at all. They should not be selected by high or low price, but rather based on quality and reliability. In HDV a good tape is more essential to prevent trouble than with DV. This makes sense as more information is being coded on to the tape.

1) Just to be sure: the A1 can't play tapes recorded with DVCAM, right?

2) I think I'll go for the Pan AMQ tapes for my A1, but I have about 10 tapes recorded with a Z1-E (HDV), and if I would have to recapture them to the computer with my A1 (they do play) and then go back to the Pan tapes, should I use a cleaning tape in between, and in that case, a wet or a dry cleaning tape?

Ahhhhh, the good old days of white-box reel-to-reel blank tape. Companies would buy bulk tape, spool it on reels and put it in a box. VHS tape is sold to video service houses on 17,500 ft long pancakes, 5 to a box for respooling.

The package we buy is comprise of three major components, the tape, a cassette, and a case, all could come from different manufacturers. Spell it outsourcing.

FWIW, Panasonic and JVC are both units of Matsushita. So they have a unique ability to share technology, etc. when it suites their parent corporation's purposes.

Back a number of years ago (maybe 12-14 or so) there was a trade magazine that published detailed technical reviews of analog video tape (VHS and 8-mm) over two issues. Have not seen anything like that since.

From a Mar 2000 web site referenced on Wikipedia: "Generally speaking, Panasonic Digital Media manufactures about 70% of DV media, Sony manufactures 25% and TDK manufactures 5%. These figures are approximate and of course subject to change. I know Maxell and Fuji have DV and DVCPRO tape brands, I would expect these manufacturers to enter the game very soon if they are not already as both have a history of providing media."
"What I can find from direct experience of these OEM arrangements is that Panasonic makes Canon and JVC tape. Sony makes its own tape. TDK makes its own. I do not know who makes Fuji, Maxell or other tape brands." Again, that is older info, so thing have no doubt changed somewhat.

And who knows what is coming from China these days. They seem to make everything.

I had to capture some material supplied on DVCAM tapes recently and assumed they wouldn't work in my A1. The last thing I wanted to do was put somebody elses tapes in my A1 anyway but unfortunately I didn't have the time to mess around trying to hire a DVCAM deck so gave it a shot anyway - they played back perfectly. I wondered if they might just contain DV footage on DVCAM tapes so tried to play them in a JVC MiniDV cam and they wouldn't play back at all so they must have been in a format other than standard DV.

I wouldn't like to say DVCAM definately plays in the A1, but it certainly looked that way.

The ones I tried wouldn't play. "Ch 1/2" was blinking all the time, and the display said "DV16:9" of some reason although it was 4:3 DVCAM. The image was jumping and there was no sound. They were recorded with a Sony PD-150.

Interesting, as I said I don't know what camera was used to record the tapes I had so can't be sure they were DVCAM. The material was SD 16:9 progressive though.

Paul.

Brian, I'm curious how your tests have turned out... I have recently purchased the A1 and am facing the same dilemma with tape stock. can you or anybody else weigh in on whether the AY-DVM63PQ or the AY-DVM63MQ tapes are better?

Also, I seem to remember somebody mentioning more dropouts on the 83 minute tapes. Has anybody experienced this before?

Cheers!

-joe

Sony minidv tapes
 

I just received my A1 - got lots to learn.
I have a whole stack of Sony MiniDV SD tapes. I will be doing mostly SD 16:9 anyway. Are these tapes good enough for the A1 or should I get the higher quality tapes?

Also, if I stick with the Sony HDV tapes, can I use them interchangeably with the Sony non-HDV tapes - or do I have to clean between tapes?

Thanks
Jim

SD tape will work fine in the A1, especially for SD work. The major difference with HDV-rated tape is presumably better quality control resulting in less tape-caused drop outs and uncorrectable read errors. Blank DVCAM-labeled tape will work as well since it is basically the same stuff but presumably higher quality. However, trying to playback a DVCAM format recording in a A1 is a different issue.

A need to cleaning between different model tapes types from the same maker is a maybe. Experience will tell.

So can anyone tell me the difference between the Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ and the Panasonic AY-DVM63APQ? They both are labeled professional grade but the APQ has Master quality on it. Are they the same tape but different package?

I'd be interested in knowing what or who you mean when you say "Canon recommends Panasonic." Did you see this written on a Canon website or material or hear it from a person?

The reason is that I attened a Canon workshop demo of the A1 recently put on by a Canon employee who works at the Canon Irvine California Service Center and he said that most problems the service center sees are caused by the use of Panasonic tapes becuase they are a dry lubricant and the Canon is made for a wet (or the other way around) but he insisted that Sony tapes were the only tapes that would work without damaging the A1.

I asked him to say this again and he did. He said not to even use the Canon tapes, but the Sony high quality tapes. He said the Canon tapes would work but that the Sony tapes would work better.

So, since this is so different from what you have heard I'd like to get to the bottom of the real answer. If you have a source, this would be helpful.

Strange comments from a Canon employee. Was he a technician or just a talking head good a reading scripts?

From Canon Support
 

I emailed Canon about tapes. Here is their response:

Thank you for writing to us. We value you as a Canon customer and
appreciate the opportunity to assist you with your XH A1.

Use only videocassettes marked with the Mini DV logo. For recording in
HDV we recommend you use videocassettes compatible with the HDV
standard. We
have no designated name brand for use with your camera.

We hope this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if we
can be of any further assistance with your XH A1.

Thank you for choosing Canon.

I guess it depends on who you ask as to what response you will receive. I have started using the Sony HDV tapes - so far they work great.

Jim

Amazing, I guess it depends on who you ask because everything these days are pretty much preference I guess.... Amazing.

I think good tape is good tape and cheap tape is cheap tape, regardless of whether it's labeled HDV or DV. I think manfuacturing controls and dropout inspection, etc., are better on the good stuff, which is the reason for using it. You could cover your bases and use Panasonic's AMQ tapes--they say "HDV/DV" so you get both.;)

Wait a minute... Are you guys saying that you can record HD footage on a regular mini-dv tape??? Like this one?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._DV_Video.html

I have a Sony HDR-FX1. Will the tapes above record HD footage on my camera? If that's true then I've blown alot of money on those HDV tapes.

Yes, you can record HDV on regular miniDV tape.
(There has been several threads about this)

William,
This issue is dropouts. Regular miniDV tape doesn't have as good a surface as tape marked for HDV. So there are more dropouts with regular miniDV tape. If an occasional dropout doesn't bother you, you can save a lot of money.

How many dropouts you will get varies from tape to tape. I get anything from one per hour to one every 2 or 3 minutes.

you have made my day in a way buddy,i have been thinking no one else gets drop outs with sony premiums,i get at least 1 or 2 per tape,but stangely touch wood recording edited films from pc back onto tape less than than the outside filming tapes if you get what i meen.chris