The dreaded Black Screen issue...let's try and fix it
 

Hi all,

My 6 month old Sanyo HD1 developed the black screen issue yesterday and since I mail ordered it from Japan I'm sure that Sanyo UK won't honour the warranty. I'm going to try and find somewhere that will repair it today but if that fails I want to try and repair this thing myself...

Looking at the other threads it seems that the problem is caused by the lens mechanism popping off its mountings. Can anyone confirm this? Has anyone tried fixing this themselves? And how hard is it to disassemble the HD1?

If Sanyo won't fix the problem I guess we'll have to...

I thought the zoom lens issue was a mechanical problem that affected a particular batch back in January or so. I haven't noticed anywhere where this is specifically associated with the failure of the OLED. Can you point us at the threads you are thinking of? Since mine has a 3 year warranty, I can't say I'm that keen on taking it apart. (Unusual for me!!)

The OLED doesn't fail - you can still see the info such as recording time remaining etc. However, you can't see anything in the display apart from this info. Recordings turn out black as well.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=67209

Looking at the lens of mine, it still zooms in and out (I can see the lens working), so it must be something else.

James, did your cam have a guarantee card inside with a reference number?

I ordered mine from China on Ebay but, because there was a card inside, my local Sanyo agreed to a 12 month guarantee.

I just scanned in my guarantee card and e-mailed it to them, explaining I had bought the cam on holiday..

It must unfortunately be something deep down in the electronics or sensor itself that's dead then..... I suppose it could be dodgy intercomponent connectors, but it would be nicer to get them to fix it. I would do as Graham Jones has suggested.

What we really need is a Sanyo contact in a country like Australia, where there seems to be some sort of rule that service manuals must be made public, so we can get hold of some information.

For my money, it's the lens mechanism because that's all Sanyo have said when fellow posters (here and on steve's forums) have managed to get them to say anything. I don't have the exact threads, but I believe I've read it twice in separate places.

I don't think the zoom still moving when pressed contradicts that theory!

However, I would be reluctant to speculate in more detail or crack the thing open.

I would have thought that the only way I could see the zoom causing a black screen is if the ccd dropped out of the assembly!! But like you I'm not prepared to pull it apart while it still works.
Come to think of it I do remember some reports in the early days of the images being out of focus on one side compared to the other. Maybe the chip does have a somewhat dubious mount!

At the end of the day, we don't know.

My HD1 is presently in for the black screen issue. It was produced in February. The answer I got was that a new lens assembly has been ordered for it.

Given that the lens assembly was visibly moving, I would assume it has to do with a CCD connection or mount failure. Add to this the fact that some report tapping is a temporary fix and the arguement supporting a defective CCD connection appears stonger. I'm thinking it could be a failing ground wire that the CCD depends on. Cold solder joints in monitors fail in the same way and tapping them serves as a temporary solution.

On my first unit that experienced this black screen issue lightly "tapping" it on a hard surface temporarily remedied the problem.

This implies to me a MECHINCAL failing not a programming failure.

Also eventually the black screen problem seemed to go away but a new one ensued (causing me to have to return it) whereas even on ISO 1600 it was barely usable even in broad daylight. (it was as if its was too dark)

off course by then it was no use trying to take pictures. I will try to find some to post just so you can see how funky it got.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

For the record, mine came down with this dreaded disease after 4.5 months of light use. I purchased from Prestige so I was expecting an issue to repair. Called Sanyo and they didn't bat an eye when I told them where purchased.
Told me where to send for repair. Took 3 weeks to get it back but is working normally again. The only caveat is the paperwork says the repair is only warrentied for 60/30 days. Hope this lense assembly is a re-engineered part.

What's this 30/60 day warrantee comment about? A 1 year warrantee should cover a system for a year. This is the first I've heard of this. Has anyone else had similar notification?

anyone getting black screen problem, please look into the lens to check if the shutter is stuck. If you can see a little black hole (around 1-2mm diameter), that means it's open.
HD1's shutter would be completely closed when power off, opening in shooting mode.

well once your 1 year is up they can not repair it and claim AS IS

so his warranty is covered for the remainder of the 1 year OF 30/60 if the 1 year expires or will expire soon.

so if 364 days into your warranty you repair it you don't have 1 day left you have 30 or 60 or something like that.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

I bought the Service Manual
 

I mentioned in the other thread that I bought the Service Manual pdf for around $17. It has a lot of useful info but I didn't have time to try to fix it yet. I can share more if you'd like. Thanks.

Is there a picture of the disassembled camera? It would be great if you could extract it and put it up somewhere so we can have a look!

I wondered why it clicked when you powered it up. I suppose it's a protection against leaving the camera pointing at the sun for hours. In my northern climes, it's probably unneccessary since we never see the sun!

Sanyo HD1 Black Screen
 

My HD1 has just been struck with the black screen issue. I purchased it in April06 from Aamazon.com. I contacted Sanyo-Fisher and they gave me an address of a service center to send it too. The warranty is 90 days labor and 1 -year parts. I requested an increase in the labor warranty and was told it MAY be possible. The zoom of the lens is working fine. I will be sending it in next week so will keep all posted as to the results.
ciao Ron

Hi Ron,

Sanyo fixed mine without hassle and it's worked flawlessly ever since. It's been 24 hours already.

Seriously, I don't know how reliable the repairs are yet, but I can tell you Sanyo was good about keeping me updated on the status of my camera. It took about a month to get back because parts had to be shipped in for it. Parts arrived Sept 1st and it was in my hands on the 8th. Pretty good considering it had to courier across Canada.

Daniel,

Where did you buy it from, would not mind seeing one?

I am curious about a few things, component output for one, there should be some path in the camera that can be tapped. I wish i could remember what else.

Over at news we are looking at uncompressed HDMI capture card fro $250, and hooking at using component to HDMI adaptor with. Now compressed HD1, might just be worth the price.

Of note, saw Sanyo underwater enclosures recently, forget the brand.

Pls see attachment. I bought it from a Sanyo Support refered place. Thanks.

Thanks very much Daniel, when I see diagrams like the ones in your manual, it reminds me what an extraordinary state precision production engineering has reached!

Much thatnks to Daniel!

Has anyone played with the DscCalDi.exe software discussed in the manual?

Thanks again!

Stuff, I've posted a thread asking about the fix, and have only just found this thread again.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=77118

Daniel, how did it go? I'm curious about buying a secondhand black screen camera, when it gets worked out.

About the problem, now with a clearer head. Seems to be a number of possible things related directly to the lens.

ND filter:
Built in Neutral Density filter closed. Face to sun behind foreground objects, can anything be seen. Shutter and iris should still adjust brightness and depth of field.

Iris:
Iris closed down, try iris control to see if it can free up. Face to sun again, can anything be seen, what depth of field (long) adjust shutter to see if not.

Shutter:
Shutter closed (should have electronic shutter instead of mechanical, but maybe has a closable light blocking system to protect CCD while not in use) try shutter controls. Face to sun, if anything can be seen, test depth of field with iris control.

Lens loose:
Lens is loose and facing wrong direction. Face sun, some light should. be seen incorrect image, probably just blurry patch of light or grayish black screen (cover lens to test if different shade of black).

+ The other CCD mounting/connections mentioned above.


Interesting solution:

Apart from fixing the lens so that it just doesn't happen, what about. Replacing lens with SLR, 16mm, Super 8, or high grade electronic controlled security lens. Most of these lens would require a special triplet condenser, which certain optics suppliers will give free advice on which lens. The security lens aren't that good, but the electronics might be adaptable to the existing system.

As it is, I did read about a certain Canon lens adaptor for the XL1s, that has condenser built in (1/3inch, not quiet big enough).

Such a hack and whack on SLR lens conversion has been done before for the Sony Z1/FX1 (cannot find related links or thread at the moment).

Add a good variable density filter to control exposure.


Altogether not worth it for the camera, unless you want to ( or can record from CCD). This is all the sort of stuff you don't do unless you know what you are doing, are good at it (even trying to keep track of screws from a camera, and electronic trips is a nightmare) and you have no option but to throw camera anyway.


Thanks

Wayne.

I believe this was probably the issue. Looking into the lens, when you shut down and power the camera up, the little click you hear is when a shutter can be seen closing or opening over the ccd. Mine has so far had no probs.

ND filter was the problem...
 

My HD1, after about 400 stills, started in July to burn out all exterior stills. I understood that with manual settings, "ND on" the problem has been corrected, while for movies it was better to set on "P". In September, after one short time black screen on power-on, I sent my HD1 to the Italian service center and they replaced the lens assembly in about two weeks. Sanyo support (Germany) explained me that both the problems had the same origin.
In the past, I had the C1 and it was perfect. Now I have hours of HD clips, the picture is perfect on my PC screen (1280x768) as well as on LCD TV Samsung (1366x768) using component connection.
That's all, Folks
MS

Mike and Milan, interesting. I suppose the test is to examining this on a black screen camera, that it looks the same as the closed mechanisms on the normal camera. If anybody could verify, or share shots of this lens.

Does it still click when it comes on with a black screen?

Milan, thanks for that, it looks confusing. I would not have expected the two issues to have the same direct cause. If an ND filter then you should get something from strong light. It would sound more like an Iris thing, but then I would not expect the click.

An interesting solution:
Assuming it is some power down block out shutter sticking, there is a possibility to get it to open. If the clicking is metallic in origin, the mechanism might be metallic and an powerful magnet might effect it. Rare Earth based magnetics can be very powerful and have large fields. This is also hazardous, moving a very powerful magnet around the camera (i.e waving it around) could induce electrical currents that could damage the camera, bend mechanisms etc. Also letting them "fly" together can cause damage to your fingers and smash them. I have some large ones here (3cm long) and I would not suggest using them. So, a smaller button (even mini button) like rare earth magnet might still work. They might be available from speciality and electronics stores.

Once again, potentially hazardous for your camera, and not worth testing unless you were going to toss the non working camera anyway.


Thanks

Wayne.

a new surprise: it is not possible to adjust focus of distant objects
 

I revert back to two aspects of the black screen issue on my Xacti HD1: the noise (click) during bed operation was that you can hear when turning ON and OFF the ND filter manually. That’s why I believe that, in my case the ND filter and not the shutter, caused the problem. It is not easy to get the correct idea about that from drawings included in the Service Manual. Some assemblies (as focusing unit, ND filter and shutter) are not clearly drawn. As I have no experiences with other units (my equipment never required dismounting!), I can’t imagine how they operate.
Having my HD1 back with new lens assembly, last week I had the opportunity to test it in very good lighting conditions. So, while the colours and lights are perfect, I had a new surprise: it is not possible to adjust focus of distant objects (> 5 - 10 meters to infinity) when the zoom is set to TELE. I sent e-mails to Sanyo Support and to the Service Centre and hope to read some news soon.
The question is: bad assembling or bad tuning?
The answer in one of the next visit.
Milan

Well I finally took my HD1 in to get repaired yesterday at my expense. It is going to cost £88 to get it fixed - once they give it back to me i'll ask what had failed in it.

Well I got my camera back - they rebuilt the optical block and fixed some dry solder joints.

OK, as the camera I was waiting for has now been extensively delayed, the HD1a/HD2, is still in the run. It seems that their si a noisy camera picture game going on now with low bit-rate cameras (which lowers codec performance) we will see what happens in future models.

James, can you separate out the what problems the dry joint and optical block causes, maybe you can ask them?

Thanks.

Just reviving this thread - my HD1 broke again. Exact same issue, black screen. Only used it twice after getting it fixed the first time. Took it back to the repair center and they rebuilt the optical block again. They say that it was probably the iris sticking shut.

I asked them if I should get rid of it - they said yes, looking at the internals it would break again. Next time I would need a new optical block instead of a rebuild.

Did the HD1a ever fix this issue? I've just ordered a Panasonic HDC-SD1 to replace the HD1, but if the HD1a fixes the issue the 5MP camera of the Sanyo could tempt me back.

EDIT: I've also gotta say that I'm proud to have created a thread thats almost had 3,000 views! This shows its a serious issue and Sanyo should take notice!

black screen sanyo
 

Does anyone know of someone who will buy my sanyo HD1ex off me. It has the black screen problem so i sent in to lehrman and they wanted to charge £195 to fix it, I can't afford that so if anyone wants to but a my sanyo cheaply please let me know.

One day i will save up for a canon hv20 but thats about a year away!!

i was gutted as until the blackscreen problem I was very happy with its performance.

Bruce