Pentium Hyperthreading Technology and Stability
 

To anyone who may have specific knowledge on the P4 with HT technology, do you know how I can overcome the stability issues that are somewhat unresolved with the P4c series chips?

This is my system:

2.8 GHz P4c 800MHz FSB
ABIT IC7 Motherboard
(1 Gig total) 512 Mb paired Cosair Highspeed RAM (400MHz)
Windows XP
Vegas 3.0c
and lots of other insignificant stuff

The latest BIOS have been flashed, and everything has been updated. What can I do to keep my system from periodically rebooting?

Thanks,

Brad

Probably unrelated, but make sure that you don't have any IRQ conflicts or shared IRQ resources for your PCI and AGP devices. Disable in the BIOS any ports not in use (like USB, serial, parallel, ect...) to free up additional IRQ resources.

I was having random reboots when I was recording multi-track audio in Pro Tools until I got my IRQ's under control.

~Hope this helps.

i have a p4 3,06 HT and it's quite stable. it reboots from time to time too but it isn't that often. i have that from time to time when i capture something with scenalyzer

Say, thanks for the warning! I am on the hunt for a new system, and had been looking at the P4 3ghz, with 1 gig ram in Gateway, Dell, Compaq etc. . . I guess I'll be rethinking. I hate to stick with my old athlon 900, but, until I find a suitable, stable, solution. . . I've spent too much time and money getting my current stable system, to start over again.

Harry,

There is good and bad with just about every option in life, and the P4 with HT technology is very much included in this generalization. While I have taken a significant amount of time building and setting up this system (with a lot of help from gifted friends), it can render like nothing I have ever seen. I was working with some footage this evenning, and even after adding several video fx's and transitions, this machine could render approximately 40-45 frames per second. The reboot problem may have been resolved with some changes tonight to my system's BIOS.

New technology can have it's fair share of problems, but the P4 HT processor is very well suited for video work. I do not regret this upgrade.

If you go this route and need some assistance, just email me, and I'll help you troubleshoot.

Brad

What kind of power supply do you have? Some instabalities might
be due to this.... Or a broken fan.

Rob, good observation. However, I'm running on a stable 400 watt power supply and the fans all look good (any power instability is a result of our local electricity provider and is somewhat regulated by a standard APC battery backup).

I think the problem was in the BIOS default settings. The default allowed for computer controlled variability with the FSB frequency, DRAM to CPU timing ratios, AGP and PCI frequency as well as several other key parameters. Since going in and setting everything manually, I have not had any problems. My conclusion (for the moment) is that computers are just not ready to run themselves - not yet anyway.

My other conclusion, this HT technology is great for all those who hate to wait for rendering. Even my impatient side is impressed to watch video render through the preview window in high speed.

But is that the HT or the speed of the processor? Have you tried disabling HT in BIOS and running the same renders?

I'm just curious as to what real difference HT actually makes.

Nigel, I had the same question when we built the system.

The fact that the processor runs at 2.8 GHz prior to our future overclocking efforts has a big part to play in the short render times. But to answer you, yes HT does make a difference (at least in a NLE that supports dual processor performance). To actually quantify that difference would be difficult, but estimating from the increased processor usage (nearly 20% increase) and the reduced render time (about the same 20%), I tend to believe that it is significant. I would like to be able to post accurate numbers, but we have not had a chance to do any real benchmark testing.

Brad

This is interesting, Brad, since I'm building a new edit box, and am considering the value of HT. It would be nice to have some render times from the same project rendered with and without HT enabled in the BIOS. That way, the only difference between the two would, theoretically, be the impact of the 'virtual' second CPU.

To Harry Settle
 

For what it's worth, I have the Gateway 700 XL Digital FilmMaker package and it is awesome. Stable, fast and a dream to use with vegas 4.0. I have mine configured for dual monitors. What a convenience tool. Give the Gateway serious consideration. I used an HP Pavilion before but I only had a 256 mghz bus speed which made my monitor playback jittery.

Re: Pentium Hyperthreading Technology and Stability
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Brad Higerd : To anyone who may have specific knowledge on the P4 with HT technology, do you know how I can overcome the stability issues that are somewhat unresolved with the P4c series chips?

The latest BIOS have been flashed, and everything has been updated. What can I do to keep my system from periodically rebooting?

Thanks,

Brad -->>>
Brad,

I know this is an old thread, but I am having the same problem with my [BRAND NEW!] custom Pentium 4 2.8C system:

2 x 256MB DDR400 (either Kingston ValuRam or generic)
Foxconn 865A01-G-6EKRS motherboard (Intel 865G chipset)
2 x 120GB Western Digital SATA hard drives (8MB buffer)
Windows XP Home Ed., Service Pack 1a
Ulead MediaStudio Pro 6.5 VE (soon upgrading to version 7.01, once the crashes stop -- IF I can get them to stop)
eVGA GeForce FX5200 dual-display video, 128MB (latest Nvidia drivers 5.6.7.2)
350W power supply in CodeGen L-6102 case

After your system reboots, do you receive any "serious error" or "serious problem" message upon startup? Did you have any warning or did your monitor just go black like mine? You can stop the rebooting by right-clicking My Computer and then clicking Properties, the Advanced tab, Startup and Recovery, and then unchecking "Automatically reboot." That wont' stop the errors, but it will display messages to help you troubleshoot the problem. Was your problem ever resolved?

After troubleshooting several days and losing valuable editing time, I gave up and took the machine back to the PC Club franchise that assembled it. Fool that I am, I kept the unstable machine past the store's 7-day refund period, so now the best I can hope for is an obvious hardware failure so the offending component can be replaced under warranty.

The techician today said he doesn't understand why I'm experiencing Windows errors even though he did a 20-hour burn in after building the system. Obviously, "buring in" isn't good enough and doesn't replace real-world use. He suspects defective or incompatible RAM modules. I hope that's all that is causing the problem.

Good luck to you!

Hi Brad,

I use several HT computers - many of the overclocke - like this one, a 3.2ghz running 3.5ghz - and I never have any problems.

I recently bought a new motherboard, a MSI Neo2 Pro FisR - and during my hunt for the new mobo I read some articled about the IC7 mb - some of them having stability problems.

The most common reason for self-rebooting is memory timing. Try to set your BIOS options more conservative.

One other thing strikes me: Does the computer reboot during videorender or other CPU intensive work? If so - it could be heat related - many mother motherboards shutsdown/reboots if the CPU gets too warm.

Good luck!

// Lazze

<<<-- Originally posted by Lars Siden : Hi Brad,

The most common reason for self-rebooting is memory timing. Try to set your BIOS options more conservative.

One other thing strikes me: Does the computer reboot during videorender or other CPU intensive work? If so - it could be heat related - many mother motherboards shutsdown/reboots if the CPU gets too warm.

Good luck!

// Lazze -->>>

I don't know if you were talking to me or Brad, but when it was working, my PC would usually render without problems. My first editing project on the new PC went fairly well, but a few days later the restarting/crashing accelerrated from daily to about twice per hour under normal Windows usage; something as simple as changing a Control Panel option could cause an error that reboots the PC. I could do nothing at all, or something as simple as loading a CD into my CD-ROM drive. It seems to happen completely at random. Sickening!

I have a non-HT P4 system that does this. My 3.2 Ghz P4 HT system is rock solid with one exception. If I load a previously written rewritable DVD into the Sony burner, it will probably cause a reboot.

But other than that, there are absolutely no stability problems and with the RT system (Canopus DVRexRT) and Edius, it really screams.

ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe motherboard.

I have a bizarre problem where enabling hyperthreading would cause random reboots while my computer was overclocked. This didn't seem to lead to any general system instability (prime95's toture test found no errors). Anyways, that's really bizarre and probably not that common.

Tim, to troubleshoot your problem, here's what I'd try:
Download Motherboard Monitor, CPUBurn, and Prime95.
http://mbm.livewiredev.com/download.html
http://users.ev1.net/~redelm/
http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm
Motherboard Monitor is for checking the temperatures + voltages your motherboard is reporting. The voltages on the 3.3V, 5V, and 12V lines should be within 5-10% of those values.

CPUBurn and Prime95 are for stressing your computer. Prime95 also checks your CPU to see if it's producing errors. Run both at the same time, with prime95 in torture test mode.

This should find problems with your power supply, CPU, RAM, and overheating problems. Running the aforementioned programs don't stress your power supply as much as possible. If your voltages look iffy then try playing a CD and copying files on your hard drive to itself (get every part of your computer consuming as much energy as possible).

Next thing I would try is to see if maybe software is causing it (seems unlikely since the problem is accelerating). Viruses, adware/spyware, bad drivers can cause random reboots. You can open up task manager and run all the program names (i.e. blah.exe) through Google to see if you have a virus or adware/spyware. I don't know how to quickly spot bad drivers. Some PCI cards if not functioning correctly can also cause reboots.

Another thing to try is to stop windows from rebooting when it hits an error.
Go start --> control panel --> system --> advanced tab --> startup and recovery settings --> uncheck automatically restart.

If you BSOD (blue screen of death), try copying down the error and running that through google. You might want to collect a few error codes first to see if they are the same each time. If you are not BSODing I would suspect power-related failure.

Let me know if that works!

2- Other possible causes (guessing wildly here):
bad power? You might have a problem somewhat that's getting worse and worse, causing power fluctuations.

Tim,

I did finally overcome the stability issue, but as it turned out, it had more to do with Bios settings than an update.

If your problem is similar to the one I experienced, check your BIOS and confirm that everything that can be set manually is set with the parameters you want. My system remained unstable anytime I allowing the computer to make changes to itself (ex. processor voltage, memory strap, memory timings...). The only two things that I had to avoid was overheating my processor (with too high a FSB/voltage jump) and creating a memory strap between my processor and memory where my memory could not function.

I don't overclock anymore, my memory timings are set as aggressively as possible, and the system has run for nearly a year without any problems.

In summation - DO NOT LET YOUR COMPUTER AUTOMATICALLY CONFIGURE ANYTHING IN THE BIOS! If you leave things for the computer to automatically configure, it can make significant system changes anytime.

Brad

Thanks for the feedback, but. . .
 

. . . I don't know the first thing about setting voltages, RAM timing, etc., nor do I have the time to experiment and troubleshoot futher, which is why I took the computer back to the PC Club store and let them sort it out. They *should* know more than I do, and I'll trust they can solve the problem. If they can't, I'll be advertising a lot of month-old computer parts for sale here; very little use :)

This was never an issue with my 486 and Pentium III systems, so why is the Pentium 4 platform so picky? I don't consider this progress. This sort of stuff needs to be transparent to end-users like me who don't care about modding and overclocking and just need a modern computer that works normally. I'll leave beating benchmarks to the folks who have time to screw around with it.

Thanks for all the feedback. As of last night, the PC Club technician has supposedly fixed my system. I'll print this thread and give it to him today when I find out what the cause was and if it was related to Brad's problem.

Next time, I'll pay an extra $500 and buy from a builder who specializes in NLE systems.

Peace,

tjb

Tim,

I've given some more thought to your problem, and I never did receive any "serious problem/error" messages from Windows on reboot during my days of instability (referring to the computer).

However, I have experienced many problems with Windows which have all been resolved with a reinstallation from their CD. If you have a Windows installation disk, I would highly recommend that you reinstall Windows. I have never lost any data by doing so, and it has resolved a variety of computer conflicts.

As far as the diagnosed memory hardware failure, you could try using some other memory and being sure you have set up a "virtual memory" paging file through Control Panel > System Properties > Advanced > Advanced > Change "Virtual Memory". Any memory problems you may have are often relayed by Windows in an error message, but it doesn't mean that the diagnosis is incorrect. However, it could just be an easy out by their tech guy.

Brad

Tim,

I read your thread just after posting the one above. I agree - technology can be a real pain in the ass! The main reason I don't overclock my present system is that I don't want to have to build another one (and tweak it).

Let me know if I can be of any assistance in the future,

Brad

What motherboard are you running? Most BIOSes are very conservative and use conservative settings. Some motherboards may identify your CPU incorrectly. With the wrong settings your motherboard/BIOS will effectively be trying to overclock your CPU. The same thing can happen with RAM.

Hey Glenn,

I'm running an Abit IC7. I'm really pleased with the performance, and it didn't cost me much. Between this and Vegas, I have as good an editor as I should ever need (until HD becomes common place).

Brad

Did you use the automatic overclocking feature on the Abit board? That would explain things.

No, I actually did not really try to overclock until after the stability issues were overcome. The ABIT BIOS for the IC7 in default settings allowed the motherboard to adjust to the user’s demands. I think it was ambitious for ABIT to try this concept, and it was ambitious for me to buy one less than a month from its release date. I listed some of the automatic adjustments the BIOS would make way back in this thread, and now that I have taken away its liberty, it’s an awesome MB!

Defective RAM was to blame!
 

I picked up my computer yesterday. The technician ran memtest86 on it and quickly found the bad chips. That's what I get for buying cheap JetRam memory :)

The machine's been running stably and smoothly for about 14 hours. I even captured three hours of video without a single error, so tonight I'll resume editing and try to catch up on this project.

My fingers are still crossed, but I think any problem would have surfaced by now. I'm hopeful that video editing will be fun again.

I want to thank everyone who posted in response to my problem. I appreciate your experience and willingness to help.

Also don't forget that sudden reboots could also be due to things
like Virusses etc.! Looks like you found your problem, but I still
wanted to point this out.

No viruses
 

This computer's a standalone machine and has never touched an Internet connection. The only files I put on it have come from my office PC which is protected against viruses and scanned regularly. I don't worry.

The PC's still running great. I'm about ready to wrap up a wedding project :)

I broke down and purchased a new Systemax computer from Tiger Direct. It's a P4 3.2, 512mb ram. Projects that were taking me anywhere from 5 to 25+ hours to render in Vegas 4.0 (and my old Athlon 900) now takes only an hour or two with my new computer and Vegas 5.0.