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New video editing workhorse - Build input please
I put this list of components together for my new machine. This would only be the second computer I've built, so I would really appreciate it anyone and everyone could look it over and comment if anything looks fishy. Also, please feel free to recommend different components.
This will be running the Adobe suite. Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 Processor: Intel Core i7-930 2.8GHz LGA 1366 Quad-Core RAM: CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Boot Drive: 1TB 3.0Gb/s WD Caviar Black (WD1001FALS) Raid 0 Video Storage: 2x 1TB 3.0Gb/s WD Caviar Black (WD1001FALS) Misc/Final render Drive: 1TB 6.0Gb/s WD Caviar Black (WD1002FAEX) GPU: EVGA 512-P3-N871-AR GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB 256-bit Power Supply: CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W DVD Burners: 2x LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner SATA (iHAS124-04) Case: COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP ATX Full Tower OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit |
Peter,
There are a couple of things I would change. I would spend the extra 10 bucks and get the I7 -920, you can easily OC that to 3.2 and you can run that memory at full speed. I have the same memory and I like it. If you could afford it I would get this gpu: Newegg.com - EVGA 01G-P3-1180-AR GeForce GTX 285 1GB 512-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards This one has been certified for the new Adobe Mercury playback engine. I think there is a 2gb version and it's only about $40 bucks more but I'm not sure of the real advantage. Other than those two things looks good! |
Thank for the reply Dave.
Hang on, the 930 is 2.8GHz and $10 more than the 920. I wasn't aware of the Mercury Playback thing. That looks pretty sweet. I'll have to look into it some more. How did you find that the 285 is certified? |
here is a couple of links and if you use the google link at the bottom you can see the posts on here about the Mercury playback engine and the 285 Nvidia card.
You are right SAVE $10 and put towards GPU, nTersect Blog - NVIDIA Quadro Fueling Adobe?s New Mercury Playback Engine |
Yes, Peter, I'd also recommend the 920. Even with the stock Intel cooler, that processor can be overclocked to an easy 3.4 to 3.5 GHz (assuming that you use good-quality memory for that system and the right motherboard); in fact, I currently have my particular i7-920 on Intel's reference X58 motherboard running at 3.5 GHz with the memory running at 1400 MHz (and all that only raised my CPU temps by 2°C over a stock-clocked i7-920 with stock-clocked 1066MHz memory at 100% load - a very inconsequential amount, given such a degree of an overclock). And that 9800 GTX+ graphics card is now a few years old: It uses the same G92 GPU as the original 8800 GT and the 512MB edition of the 8800 GTS. The only differences between the various higher-end G92-based flavors are the GPU and memory clock speeds. In fact, the 9800 GTX+ is more recently sold as the GTX 250.
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What NVIDIA and Adobe are doing looks really sweet. Maybe I outta upgrade the card. And you don't think another Gig of memory is worth $30?
Also, you don't think the extra GHz are worth $10 more? |
Peter, before you drop coin search and read some of the many build/buy a computer threads like these:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/non-line...-ready-hd.html http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/non-line...-i7-920-a.html http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform...ngine-cs4.html It is really easy to get excited about building a new system and end up in the "if only I had known" category (yeah, been there, done that). Tech is always advancing, but double check before jumping in that what you are about to build will serve you well for what you think your needs will be in 12-18 months, not just today. It would really suck to spend a couple grand on a new system in anticipation of Mercury and then realize that it wasn't really the best setup for it...because we really don't know all those answers yet other than to say, "as fast -- and therefore expensive -- as possible in every regard." So if it isn't imperative to buy RIGHT NOW, it is wise to read up on what is due out in the next few months. A surprisingly lot is changing this year...USB 2.0 to 3.0, 6GB SATA, 6 core processors, SSD, advancing graphics capabilities (hardware and software). |
Yes, thanks for the links.
I have found Videoguys.com to be really informative and I think they can be trusted. |
Yup, they wouldn't be DVinfo sponsors if they weren't honest and dependable.
The only caveat I'd give is a very general one: any company is naturally going to tend to highlight the products that it is most interested and able to sell, which may or may not include all options a buyer might choose. Nothing more to that comment than, "research broadly and thoroughly." |
Peter,
Just for kicks price it out at avadirect.com. They have a stellar reputation. |
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Many reviews lean toward the Asus board vs. Gigabyte. |
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It's a good board, despite the disadvantages that I noted above. It would have been a better board had Asus eliminated most of the unneeded legacy features on it. |
Yes Peter. Bought a computer from them last August. They were great and very communicative during the process. You can read thier reviews here AVADirect Custom Computers / Freedom USA, Inc. - avadirect.com - Reviews, Ratings and Prices at ResellerRatings
I likewise was going to build my own until I came across AVA who offered a 3 year warranty. Here are my computer/gear specs. I edit P2 cards with Edius 5. CUSTOM COMPUTER, Core™ i7 2-way CrossFire™ DDR3 . Performance Series System 1 $1529.89 ANTEC, Nine Hundred Two Black Mid-Tower Case w/ Window, ATX, No PSU CORSAIR, CMPSU-650TX TX Series Power Supply, 650W, 80 PLUS®, 24-pin ATX12V EPS12V, SLI Ready ASUS, P6T Deluxe V2, LGA1366, Intel® X58, 6400 MT/s QPI, DDR3-2000MHz (O.C.) 24GB /6, PCIe x16 SLI CF /3, SATA 3 Gb/s RAID 5 /6, HDA, GbLAN /2, FW /2, ATX, Retail INTEL, Core™ i7-920 Quad-Core 2.66GHz, LGA1366, 4.8 GT/s QPI, 8MB L3 Cache, 45nm, 130W, EM64T EIST VT XD, Retail CORSAIR, 3GB (3 x 1GB) XMS3 PC3-12800 DDR3 1600MHz CL9 (9-9-9-24) 1.65V SDRAM DIMM, Non-ECC SAPPHIRE, Radeon™ HD 4830 575MHz, 512MB GDDR3 1800MHz, PCIe x16 CrossFire, VGA+DVI, HDMI, Retail WESTERN DIGITAL, 160GB WD Caviar® SE (WD1600AAJS), SATA 3 Gb/s, 7200 RPM, 8MB cache system drive WESTERN DIGITAL, 1TB WD Caviar® Black™ (WD1001FALS), SATA 3 Gb/s, 7200 RPM, 32MB Cache video drive RAID, No RAID, Independent HDD Drives LITE-ON, iHAS324 Black 24x DVD±RW Dual-Layer Burner w/ Smart Erase, SATA, Retail SABRENT, CRW-UINB Black 65-in-1 Card Reader/Writer Drive, 3.5" Bay, Internal USB CREATIVE, Sound Blaster® X-Fi Titanium, 7.1 channels, 24-bit 96KHz, PCIe x1 MICROSOFT, Wired Keyboard 500, Black, PS/2 MICROSOFT, Optical Wheel Mouse, PS/2 + USB, Black MICROSOFT, Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit Edition w/ SP1, OEM WARRANTY, Silver Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts, 3 Year Labor Warranty) |
I think I'm getting closer. And I'm liking the idea to go with avadirect (thanks Mark, I wasn't aware of them). For $150 (inc tax+shp) more I can get 3 years parts and labor and it all put together and tested for me.
Here's the build at this point. Randall, thanks for the mobo info. I switched to the P6T Deluxe. I wont have room to expand storage (except for the eSATA on the back), but I don't think I'll need to. Also, this build has the GeForce 285 (which I can blame on Dave). Case: COOLER MASTER HAF 932 (RC-932-KKN1-GP) Black Tower Case Power: CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX TX Series Power Supply, 850W Mobo: ASUS P6T Deluxe V2, LGA1366, Intel® X58 Processor: INTEL Core™ i7-930 Quad-Core 2.8GHz, LGA1366 RAM: CORSAIR 12GB (6 x 2GB) XMS3 PC3-12800 DDR3 Video: XFX GeForce® GTX 285 648MHz, 1GB GDDR3 2484MHz Boot: SAMSUNG 500GB SpinPoint F3, SATA Raid 0: SAMSUNG 1TB SpinPoint F3, SATA Raid 0: SAMSUNG 1TB SpinPoint F3, SATA Final render/misc: SAMSUNG 1TB SpinPoint F3, SATA Optical: LITE-ON DVD±RW OS: MICROSOFT Windows 7 Professional 64-bit Edition Warranty: Silver Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts, 3 Year Labor Warranty) $2494 including shipping |
Peter, if Microcenter is near you in CA, they have as good or better prices than newegg, and they will even match newegg if their prices happen to be higher. For example, Microcenter has the i7 920 for only $199.99.
It appears you are biased towards Western Digital. For Raid, the WD Black should be avoided because WD changed the firmware to spin the drive down as much as possible which causes problems with Raid controllers. When a drive doesn't respond within several seconds, most Raid controllers think the drive is bad and 'drops' the drive from the raid array. In the case of Raid 0, all data will be lost even though all drives still work. WD used to have a function called TLER to combat this but they essentially crippled it on their Caviar Black drives in order to get people to buy their 'RE' Raid Edition drives which cost 40-50% more. I became aware of this issue from reading newegg's reviews, focusing on the 1 & 2 star reviews. Another reason I don't like the WD Blacks is that they tend to have a high pitch sound, which I learned after building a workstation/server for someone last year. Its somewhat funny because the 2 10,000 rpm WD Velociraptors in that PC are much quieter than the 1TB Blacks. Also, the new 6Gb/s drives don't provide any sort of performance improvement over 3Gb/s drives. Disclaimer: I am not a Seagate/WD/.. fanboy. In fact, even though I have 11 Seagate drives in my PC, I am looking to get several Samsung F3 1TB drives because 1)they are the fastest available; 2) only cost $85; 3) have the best reviews for hard drives I have ever seen on newegg, which means I can trust them. Furthermore, I just had a 3rd WD Raptor die within the last 8 months (the first 2 died within a week of one another). I actually like my Raptors dying because WD has been sending me Velociraptors (anyone know how I make my other 5 Raptors die? :p |
Thanks for the reply Steve.
The closest Micro Center is about 3 hours away. I have never been. Do they have a good inventory? I got the components for the last computer I built at Frys Electronics...Micro Center is likely similar. I'm not necessarily biased for WD. I'm more just being consistent. And looking at the overall review score they seemed good. But that is great information about the Raid compatibility (I love this forum!). I've actually been running Raid 0 with 400GB Maxtors for the last 3 years without a problem. I don't have the 6Gb/s drives on the list anymore. But that's interesting information. Based on your recommendation, I'll switch them to Seagates. Or Samsung? |
Another couple comments:
1) that case will not be quiet due to the large fan/opening on the side and the WD drives. I don't how much noise you can live with; however, if you prefer as little noise as possible, here is what I know: Antec and Lian-Li cases are both high to very high quality and many of their cases use sound deadening material. I had the Antec P180 (new version is P182/P183) and it was very quiet, which is why I had bought it to go next to a tv. That workstation/server I referred to in my prior post was with the P180. I say this because I could still hear the WD Blacks. I have been using a Lian-Li PC-V2100 and can't say enough good things about it. http://lian-li.com/v2/tw/product/upl.../V2100-(3).jpg http://lian-li.com/v2/tw/product/upl...0/V2100a02.jpg It is even quieter than the Antec P180. Many of us here love our ASUS motherboards (I have the P6T). I like the new P6X58D because it has USB 3.0 built in as well as Sata 6Gb, which is only good for upcoming SSD's. If you want to overclock, you will need a better heatsink/fan. One of the best is the Noctua Newegg.com - Noctua NH-U12P SE2 120mm SSO CPU Cooler - CPU Fans & Heatsinks It is rather quiet and extremely efficient at removing heat. I had a Zalman 9700 (a $60 heatsink/fan) and it was about 20% more efficient at removing heat then the stock Intel fan, and then I went to that Noctua, and its far better. For overclocking tips, find Harm Milliard's posts because he has an i7 920 clocked at 3.6-3.8GHz using the same Noctua heatsink/fan. His i7 920 @ 3.6GHz temp at 100% load is essentially the same as stock 2.66GHz with stock Intel heatsink/fan. I assume you use Adobe CS4, including Premiere, but what about After Effects? If you use AE a lot, I would consider 18GB or 24GB. Actually, if you plan on getting Adobe CS5, consider getting a 12GB kit of ram with 3 4GB sticks so you will have 3 slots free to add more ram when you get CS5 - why? Because Premiere CS5 and AE CS5 will both be 64bit native, which means they can take full advantage of all that ram, and the more ram, the better. EDIT: if the Samsung F3 is in stock, I'd go with them for the 1TB drives but maybe stick with the 640GB WD Black or Samsung F3 500GB for the boot/OS drive. FYI, I bet a single 1TB Samsung F3 is faster than your 2 Maxtors in Raid. The 1TB F3 averages roughly 115MB/s. Yes, Microcenter has a very good inventory. Check their site, and at the top, select the closet store to you - the site will then show you only what is in stock at that store. EDIT1.1: Take a look here at the F3's performance: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...it,2528-7.html |
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All this means is "you get what you pay for." In fact, you might have to spend at least twice as much money per TB today (as compared to the current average street prices of the consumer 1TB SATA hard drives) for a hard drive that's suitably reliable for long-term continuous operation since none of today's consumer SATA hard drives are meant to be used continuously for more than eight hours. |
As far as cases, I really want a full tower...I really don't like to be cramped. And the airflow potential that those fans supply. But at the same time...the quieter the better. Thanks for the recommendations...I'm looking into them. Do you think all I want to put in it will fit and still be roomy?
I was wondering about getting an after market CPU heatsink. If I do overclock this, it would be my first time. I occasionally use AE, but not a whole lot. I think 12 GB is enough of an upgrade for now (coming from 4!). |
Randall, the number of overall positive reviews on newegg for the Samsung F3 are better than any other drive within the last 3 years. Considering that newegg has been known for poor shipping & handling plus very few 1 star & 2 star reviews for the F3 series, I can't come to any conclusion other than they are very reliable.
Furthermore, all hard drive manufacturers have a very similar failure rate under identical conditions. A couple years ago, Google released a detailed report of their hard drive usage and failure rate. I recall that the most significant factor in failure rate was the operating temp. Above a certain temp, the failure rate increased exponentially every x# of degrees. In fact, Google relies heavily on cheap 'consumer' hard drives because they found that they were a far better return on investment compared to 'enterprise' drives (WD RE3, Hitachi Ultrastar, Seagate ES.2). Heck, my own experience supports Google's conclusions. Out of 8 Raptors, 'enterprise' drives, 3 failed in 2-2.5 yrs of use; while none of the 17 Seagate drives (6 7200.10s, 3 7200.11s, 8 7200.12s) have failed and my PCs are always on 24/7. Peter, what about these cases: Newegg.com - LIAN LI PC-B70 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Computer Cases ^this B70 has sound insulation material on the sides, has very nice hard drive trays that use rubber to reduce vibration and uses copious amounts of rubber throughout to reduce vibration. It costs a bit more than the others, but the case should last you numerous years; thus, it really is an investment. Newegg.com - LIAN LI PC-A71F Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Computer Cases ^similar to B70 but no sound insulation material and far less rubber; however, it has a door, which helps lower noise from the front 2 fans (although the fans are large and run at very low speed. the larger the fan and the lower the speed both contribute to lower fan noise) For the money, this Xigamtek CPU cooler works great and will allow you to overclock to 3.4-3.6GHz very easily. Besides lower temps, good aftermarket cpu coolers are quieter than the stock Intel cooler. Newegg.com - XIGMATEK Intel Core i7 compatible Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler - CPU Fans & Heatsinks |
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Any drive can be used in RAID configurations, provided you use appropriate software.
Where "green" drives might give you trouble: if you have source clips on several drives AND you are printing to tape. Since tape will not stop to wait for the green drive to wake up from sleep, the operation will fail. |
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In other words, the WD Caviar Green and Black are not incompatible with RAID; it's just that they are unsuitable for use in a RAID array due to their permanently enabled power-saving features. There is a difference between compatibility and suitability. RAID actually requires that all of the drives in the array spin continuously at full speed at all times. Unfortunately, the WD consumer drives, especially the Green and the Black, don't - and they cannot be set to spin continuously at full speed (and they spin down completely after just a few minutes of non-access, just like their consumer MyBook external hard drive kits). The WD Caviar Blue drives don't count because they have not been updated since the introduction of the 640GB model, and no new drives are currently being developed for this series. In fact, WD wants to make the Green their mainstream series and the Black their performance series (and yet neither of these two series is suitable for use in a RAID array, as I and Steve stated several times). 1TB and 1.5TB versions of the Blue were produced - but they've been used only in the company's MyBook Home Edition (which was compatible with both Windows and Mac due to it being formatted with the FAT32 file system) and Studio Edition external hard drive kits; the former series was discontinued late last year (and now there are currently no Windows-compatible out-of-the-box WD external hard drive kits which use anything but USB) while the Studio series is Mac-specific (it can be used with Windows, but must be reformatted and the appropriate Windows-compatible drive software must be downloaded from WD's site). |
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Randall, whomever said that all the PCI-Ex slots (besides x1) are for graphics cards , is wrong. I have 2 Raid controllers in mine in addition to a gfx card.
Also, tomshardware.com tested the overclocking capabilities of the P6T SE, P6T & P6T Deluxe. There was little to no difference between the top 2 boards - I think the only difference was the Deluxe used slightly more power. |
I have known that. I should have said "PCI-e 2.0 lanes," not "graphics-dedicated PCI-e lanes." (I had used that incorrect term solely due to the length of the slots that are associated with that bus.) However, the truth is that any device installed in the full-length PCI-e slots is routed to the PCI-e 2.0 bus, not the PCI-e 1.x bus.
And, of course, the "bandwidth sharing" is dynamic. This means that the full bandwidth of the PCI-e bus is available if none of the devices using it are operating at their full bandwidth. But when one of the devices on the bus maxes out its bandwidth, then yes, the available bandwidth will drop. |
There goes Randall again, calling me out and then beating around the fact that he was flat out wrong =) Dude... PCIe x1 can be used in any PCIe slot... you aren't out of luck if you have more than 1 PCIe x1 card. Just take a look at my system! I'd rather have 4 PCIe x16 slots (like some of my boards have had) than a bunch of PCIe x1 slots... it gives you more options. Given that NLE's don't take advantage of SLI or Crossfire, there is NO reason to run more than one graphics card in a system, so that leaves all the other x16 slots for whatever else you can throw on them.
Reading specs and understanding real life usage are two WAY different things. |
Ok. The final build!
Case: ANTEC Performance One P193 Black Mid-Tower Computer Case Power: CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX TX Series Power Supply, 850W Mobo: ASUS P6TD Deluxe Processor: INTEL Core i7-930 Quad-Core 2.8GHz CPU Cooler: COOLER MASTER Hyper N620 CPU Cooler RAM: CORSAIR 12GB (6 x 2GB) XMS3 PC3-12800 DDR3 1600MHz CL9 Graphics: EVGA GeForce GTX 285, GTX 285 648MHz, 1GB GDDR3 2484MHz Boot: SAMSUNG 1TB SpinPoint F3 Raid 0: SAMSUNG 1TB SpinPoint F3 Raid 0: SAMSUNG 1TB SpinPoint F3 Render: SAMSUNG 1TB SpinPoint F3 Optical: LITE-ON iHAS124 Black 24x 3.5" Reader: SABRENT CRW-UINB 65-in-1 Card Reader OS: MICROSOFT Windows 7 Professional 64-bit Edition, OEM AVADirect Total: $2479.14 Thanks for the suggestions everyone! Have any more? Better get them in quick! |
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