Laptop solution for Adobe CS5
 

I got a quote on a Win7 laptop for use to edit AVCHD video using Premiere CS5. The specs are below. I already own a G-Raid 500GB eSata external drive for video storage and playback and a Matrox MXO2 mini for HDMI monitoring (ExpressCard connection).

The basic system specs are:

Dell Mobile Precision M4500
- Intel Core i7-620M Dual Core 2.66GHz 4MB
- 8.0GB, DDR3-1066 SDRAM
- NVIDIA Quadro FX 1800M Graphics with 1GB dedicated memory
- 250GB 7200rpm System Hard Drive
- 15.6" Full HD (1920 x 1080) Wide View Anti-Glare LED Display
- Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
- 8X DVD+/-RW

Thoughts? Changes? Thanks!

At the risk of being branded a repetitive naysayer, the words "Laptop," "Solution" and "Adobe" do not go together unless you buy a very expensive gaming laptop in the $4000+ range, especially when you are talking about AVCHD. Your chip has about half the horsepower necessary for a pleasant HD experience and your graphics card can't take advantage of Premiere's GPU acceleration.

There's an off chance you might get by, but the overwhelming odds are you will join the legion of those who have ignored the vast majority of evidence and are very unhappy trying to edit HD of any flavor with Premiere on a laptop.

Countless threads on this already. Take heed of those who have tried this and are very unhappy. SD DV with Vegas? Sure. HD with Premiere? Not so much. You could improve the experience if you are willing to shell out another $500 or so for Neo HD from Cineform -- that will take some of the burden off your CPU at the expense of hugely expanded file sizes and consequently the need for really big, really fast RAIDs.

"Naysayer, naysayer, naysayer" <-- repetitive naysayer (Sorry, had to do it!)

Adam, I DO appreciate your thoughts. I do a lot of travelling and am looking for a system to complement, not replace, my desktop. I have an i&-970 based system, with GTX 285 video card, 12 GB RAM and tons of HD space on the desktop. I like to tweak, composite, effect, finish, etc. on this machine. The MPE acceleration works great there (at least with the trial version of CS5). On the road, I want to be able to offload the video from my cards onto the RAID. I want to also be able to do a basic edit, basic transitions, rough cut on location. I also want to be able to transfer this cut to the desktop, when all is said and done, and finish without having to go between CS4 & CS5 or Vegas and Adobe, or anything else resembling that. This will not be the sole editing system!

Now I agree that the chip I was quoted is rather lacking and have asked for other options. Gotta look at the "bang for my buck" situation. Now, your suggestion of using Cineform as an intermediate is not necessarily a bad idea. File size "should" not be a problem. (Note the quotes around should). But why did you suggest NeoHD vs. Neoscene? First Light? Just curious.

Neoscene might be fine for your needs. I'm not up on all the differences between all the versions.

Sounds like you know all the pitfalls already and if you need a portable solution then that's what you need. I think Perrone Ford is using a pretty beefy laptop and seems happy with its capabilities; you might search through his posts and see if you can glean what his specs are. I think there are some other threads about some pretty fast laptops for this. Your Dell won't be one of them but their Alienware line might have some realistic offerings. And if I recall correctly, the name Sager has come up with regard to laptops that are fast enough for AVCHD editing.

Also check out the Hardware sub-forum in the Adobe Premiere forums at Adobe.

EDIT: Just checked the Sager and Alienware websites; Sager has a nice unit for this at about $3,700. Alienware has one about the same price but it lacks the second HDD and the nVidia card that the Sager includes.

Seems the old adage applies: Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick any two. Laptops are inherently poor bang for the buck because they have other priorities: namely size and portability.

Bob,

I personally think that machine will be more than fine with CS5. I have decided to stay away from Dell lately due to numerous bad experiences I've ran into with people I have suggested Dell machines to. One of them is an XPS i7 laptop that had the upgraded screen. The screen has gone out twice and the motherboard also had issues. This is on an editing machine that handles Canon 5D MKII footage.

If you really want to test it out, maybe look at ordering from Costco? You could get a decently spec'd system for much less, and if it doesn't work you can simply return it within their return period, no questions asked. I personally am going to try this with an i5 system and NeoHD when I get a chance, as I am looking for a system to do just rough cutting and basic editing, opting to do the horsepower work on the desktop machine later. Keep in mind the battery life of a beast of a laptop like the one you spec'd. You might want to scale it back if you can get away with it.

Thanks, gents! Great thoughts to consider. I do like what I've seen with CS5 and, at least, how the trial version screamed on my desktop system. (I feel a little like Veruca Salt.. "but, Daddy, I want it NOW!!!")

I've started to consider sticking with CS4 and invest in Necscene or NeoHD from Cineform instead of going CS5 all over. I've tested out the trial and it works a charm with some AVCHD footage I tested as well as footage from my T2i. The big thing I worry about is cost, of course. I've budgeted for the CS5 upgrade and the new laptop, but if I stick with CS4, I can reroute the bucks into something in the more reliable range.

This is one reason I like posting here. Y'all force me to THINK!

I'd actually recommend upgrading to CS5 rather than sticking with CS4. You see, not only would CS4 not be able to use more than about 3GB of installed system RAM, it is so bloated and buggy that using CS4 to edit on even an overclocked full-sized i7 desktop system would be (relatively speaking) sluggish and choppy (with sometimes severe playback lag issues on all HD content no matter what). Thus, if you think laptops are slow on CS5, they are even worse on CS4. Likewise, if CS4 is sluggish on a i7-9xx desktop, it is even slower on a laptop.

CS4 with NeoScene STILL sucks. Go CS5. I promise you'll thank us later. If I didn't need my CS4 packaging for proof of purchase/serial number, I'd take it out back and light it on fire just for personal satisfaction.

Something that no one has mentioned is that you can reduce the playback resolution so it decreases the load on the CPU. Therefore, I don't see ANY problem using a laptop with an i7-m. Furthermore, I would look for a laptop with a nvidia GPU and 896MB of video ram (or more) so you can use the 'patch' to get MPE hardware acceleration. I think nvidia released a 470m recently and I do know there is a GT330m w/1GB that comes with HP's higher end laptops.

As far as reliability goes, at least 10 people (friends & family) I know have a Dell laptop and no one has any reliability issues (I would know because I am the only person they call for computer problems). The only brands I would stay away from are Gateway/Acer/eMachines and Lenevo. SquareTrade released stats from 30,000+ laptops for which they sold warranties and Dell was #2 or #3 behind ASUS and maybe Sony but AHEAD of Apple.

I don't know your budget but a 17-18" laptop with i7 / 8GB / nvidia GPU w/896MB+ / 2 internal hard drives / 1920x1080 - should run about $2000 from Dell or HP.

Remember to search for coupons. I commonly google "HP coupons" and "Dell coupons". Quite often, Dell has 15-25% off laptops over $1200-1400; so, if you can wait and watch for deals, this is the way to go.

About CS5 vs CS4 - I totally agree that CS5 is worth every penny. (However, CS4 is no where near sluggish or choppy on a dual-hexacore workstation. I know since I have an HP Z800 with dual 6 core CPUs and 24GB of ram)

What I meant in my post is that everything is relative. If CS4 proves sluggish on my overclocked i7-920 desktop even with 12GB of RAM, I wouldn't trust it at all for HD video editing on a laptop.

I use a Sager NP9262 myself, and I can recommend Sager. I bought mine to replace an old desktop.
Since you will use the laptop in addition to the desktop, I would look into both the 15" and 17".

Alienware is more towards gamers, and at least when I bought mine 2 years ago, Alienware cost more for lower spec hardware.

I recently bought a laptop (i7, 8gb RAM DDR3, 7200rpm), tried CS4 for a couple of days and I ended up buying Sony Vegas. Best decision ever. Vegas flies on the laptop, awful with Premiere

This thread is about CS5, not CS4 and not Vegas. Since you have other difficulties with your new laptop besides which software you choose, probably just as well to work on those issues in your other active thread:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/high-def...usb-weird.html

i use my laptop for both power director and ppro cs5.
i use a sager 8690 with an i7 720qm, nvidia 280m , 4 gig ram, 500gb hdd.
i regularly edit my 720p avchd underwater videos with these two programs and ive had very little problems, mostly brought about by my slow hardrive.
ive also tried editing some 1080p video and have not encountered major stalls or crashes with both programs.
your 620 i7 is good enough to handle cs5 and your quadro will help accelerate hd video and supported effects.
you can use the adobe nvidia hack to get cs5 support for your gpu if its not natively supported.
also cs5 is so much more optimized than cs4, and as others have suggester, just lower resolution a bit when playback gets a little choppy.
your laptop will be more than fine.

my only suggestions are:
1. get an internal ssd instead of an hdd, if budget permits, since cs5 accesses the disk a lot. you could also check the new seagate momentus xt which is a hybrid drive that is both an hdd and ssd combined.
2. get a more powerful mobile gpu if possible, maybe something with 128 strams instead of the 72 your chosen card has. but then again its no so imprtant for cs5 since rendering is not gpu accelerated. for power director however, the gpu helps shorten rendering by a big factor.

well just my 2 cents. good luck.

I was searching for the fastest laptop that carries the new nVidia GeForce GTX 480M and came across Sager. Oh my goodness, these guys rock! Here is the config I feel is suitable for AVCHD editing on the road using Premiere Pro CS5.

Customized Sager NP8850
custom gaming laptops - Welcome to Sager Notebooks

Display 17.3" Full HD LED Display with Super Glossy Surface (1920 x 1080)
Video & Graphics Card Nvidia GeForce GTX 480M Graphics with 2GB GDDR5 Video Memory
CPU Processor Intel® Core™ i7-840QM Processor ( 45nm, 8MB L3 Cache, 1.86GHz ) [$380.00]
Thermal Compound Stock Standard Thermal Compound
Operating System Genuine MS Windows® 7 Home Premium 32/64-Bit Edition
Memory 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 2 X 4GB [$215.00]
RAID Storage Options Non-RAID Storage
Primary Hard Disk Drive 500GB 7200rpm SATA 300 Hard Drive [$20.00]
Optical Drive 8X DVD±R/RW/4X +DL Super-Multi Drive & Software
Wireless Network Card Internal 802.11 B+G+N Wireless LAN Module
Bluetooth Internal Bluetooth V2.1 Module
Primary Battery Smart Li-Polymer Battery Pack
Integrated Security Device Fingerprint Reader
Warranty Sager 1 Year Limited Parts and Labor Warranty
Carrying Bag Standard Carrying Bag
Total: $2,812.27 shipping included

This unit even comes with one USB3.0 port... The only question I have is whether this is a reliable brand to go with.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

imho there is no laptop more solid than a sager. the hardware is top end, the chassis is built around the best thermal management, the notebook is easy to open, service and upgrase parts.
the only drawback is that sager notebooks is not know for their customer service. becasue of this it is better to buy from their numerous online resellers.
the one i recommend is xoticpc.com. excellent service.
if theres a laptop that can do ppro cs5 its the sagers.

I've had a couple Sagers (they're sold by other companies under their own badging), and I'd have to say that they're pretty solid in my experience. Some designs can get pretty toasty if you work with it actually in your lap...and I used to travel with a bunch of pink pencil erasers for a couple of them to give the fans more airspace...but I have done an awful lot of work on the road over the years...

I have a Dell M90 that has been a great machine when it runs...and it's cost dell a tremendous amount of money through its warranty period when it doesn't, though Dell was very responsive in my experience...throughout the three years expressed in the warranty BTW...

As far as CS4 vs CS5 for runnability... CS4 should have been 64 bit only as well in my opinion...even CS3 ran like a missile on a 64 bit machine with a decent RAM compliment. I don't think that CS5 uses that much more resources, its just that the product is finally now cut off from 32 bit systems.

I've run Premiere Pro on laptops throughout its existence, and it comes down to expectations. Whether the app will run and you can get work done is a separate issue from whether or not you can create an equivalent response to a desktop system during editing.

As Steve mentions, PPro CS5's ability to drop playback res may be a feature that makes it more suitable for portable machine use than its predecessors...

I can also recommend Sager laptops. I have still not found any other laptop with equal or better performance.

And as mentioned by Robert, I also bought mine from Xoticpc.com and the service was superb!

I'm looking for a 64bit laptop also, but...
 

Toward the end of this thread it seems like the Sager NP8850 is THE laptop to get for running CS5. I mainly use Premiere Pro, AE, and Photoshop (which runs on 32 bits). But besides my work for numerous clients, I also teach a few college classes on TV production where a workable laptop is necessary.

I've been using a Dell XPS M1330 for a few years without major problems; but now Adobe has made Premiere Pro, and After Effects only 64 bit compatible, which judging from the speed gain, it is worth the extra money.

I just took a look at the Sager. The configuration I made up comes to over $2744. I know - "you get what you pay for", but still - I might be able to do better...almost.

I know nothing about Sager nor the one I have looked at: ASUS.

I'm talking about the ASUS G51Jx, which I can get for $ 1,268.99 -excellent.
The specs:
1.6GHz Intel Core i7-720QM Quad-Core
6GB RAM500GB 7200rpm Hard Drive
SuperMulti DVD Burner
nVIDIA GeForce GTS 360M 1GB Graphics
15.6" Full HD Widescreen Display
Integrated Camera and MicrophoneBluetooth,
802.11b/g/n Wi-Fi
Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)7.3 lb

Besides price, how do they compare? As I said, I am not familiar with either system.

Can anyone direct me in the general direction of a 64 bit OS PC laptop that meets all the stated requirements? I've looked at HP, Dell, Toshiba, Asus.

By the way, I use the laptop with external everything - external screen, storage, keyboard, etc. In class I attach it via the Dell's HDMI port to a 43" HD screen. As I said - it all works perfectly well, except for the need of 64bits.

Any ideas? Anyone?

the 8850 is a great laptop but it is quite bulky, so you may want to keep that in mind. however at present i dont think there is a more powerful notebook system (with a single card gpu) around. i would suggest getting a 840qm for your cpu and 8gig ram though.
however if you are willing to wait till q1 2011, you may want to check out the sandybridge offerings of sager. sandybridge is the new 32nm microarchitecture of intel that will replace the present nehalem cpu's. the 2720qm sandybridge cpu , which is set to replace the 720qm, will bump speeds up to 2.22ghz from 1.6ghz. you will see an average of 400mhz increase on the 2820 and 2920 also.

I used a Sager 5760 for a few years while using Adobe CS2 and CS3. For the price, you do get a really solid machine. The ability to upgrade just about any internal component in a laptop was really cool and helped extend its longevity. For instance, I was able to open up the case and swap out the CPU with just a grounding bracelet and small Phillips screwdriver. The LCD inverter board eventually burned out, and I busted a hinge because I carried it around everywhere, but they were easily and inexpensively replaced. If you do some hunting online, you can find the service manuals with all the nifty exploded drawings and instructions on how to replace this or that. I bought mine from a place called PC Torque. My only gripes about Sagers are their incredibly short battery life (Any really powerful laptop won't have a ton of battery life, but fresh out of the box I was getting about 45 minutes, which is basically useless), and the amount of heat it generates. Once you start working in a graphic intensive program, you don't want to have the thing on your lap. I had to buy one of those cooling pads to keep it under control. Also, with the added heat, the fan underneath will spin up and sound like you're running a miniature wind tunnel- so if noise is a concern, be aware.

I upgraded last year to a Lenovo W700ds. The Lenovo was more expensive than the Sager, but the overall build quality is like night and day. If you're looking to pinch pennies, do what some of the others have said and get a gaming laptop. But if you're looking for something more robust and hardy, I have to recommend Lenovo. These aren't gaming rigs- they're workstations, and they definitely live up to their title. I just upgraded to CS5 on this thing, and so far it's putting CS3 to shame. This is despite the fact that I can't utilize the hardware acceleration for the Mercury Playback Engine due to my video card not having enough RAM. The Lenovo has much better heat dissipation features, and is much quieter than the Sager. You have a bit more control over your power settings, but with desktop replacement notebooks like this, don't plan on getting more than an hour. So far, the only drawbacks I've found with the Lenovo is that it came with some bloatware that needed to be removed, with the other being Lenovo doesn't want users upgrading or opening up a machine by themselves. They prefer you to send it in to a licensed tech if you need any work done. That's probably a good thing for most people, but I like to tinker with my machines...

you are right about the sagers usually having limited battery life. i have a sager 8690 and just like you i get a little more than 45 minutes only on battery. however i dont see this as a drwback as these machines are essentially portable desktops. my system comes with an intel 720qm i7 cpu and an nvidia 1 gb 280m, however i intend to upgrade to an i7 920xm and 8gb of ddr3 1333 RAM sometime this year. with specs like that, plus my hdd, bluray and full hd screen you kinda understand why battery life is not a premium. additionally, people in the notebookreview.com forums have stated that doing high performance work on batteries, such as gaming and video editing, is not advised as it can seriously deteriorate the battery.

i have never used the lenovo workstation you have but workstation quality notebooks generally have better build quality than consumer level notebooks (such as the sagers) but you do pay a premium for that workmanship.

with regards to thermal design, nothing beats a sager. on my 15.6 inch sager 8690 i get high 70's (celcius) on both my cpu and gpu on almost all intensive tasks and benchmarks; and i have ambient temps of 30*c. this is important since the thermal headroom allows me to overclock my videocard and will allow me to overclock an i7 extreme mobile cpu. ive seen a guy overclock his 920xm cpu (2.0 ghz) to 3.6 ghz ( without HT) which is higher than the stock clocks of a desktop 920. add to this the ease of upgrading almost every component on a sager (except the motherboard) then you can see why most notebook enthusiasts pick a sager. at a starting price of 1,200usd i think the sager 8690 is a good value.

however if you just want an out of the box experience and dont mind paying the premium, then a workstation class notebook is for you.

edit: i am in no way affiliated with sager, just a happy, satisfied user.