Glad the hangovers are improving.

I think actors are more interested in the characters and their relationships within the scene, plus how that fits in the story and the character's overall arc. Most actors aren't that interested in shot lists, only how each shot relates to their character, how they portray them and making sure they hit their marks.

I would get the full story onto the page, then do the breakdowns once it's locked into the shooting draft. You can often sense the shots from how the action slugs are written, but doing the actual shot list in the middle of script writing is taking your eye of the ball when you, as the writer, should be "inside each character's head" or "listening to their voices". Once that's sorted, the shot list just jumps out, because you then know what you need to see in order show the story beats and to tell the character's stories.

On course the actors will have their own take on the characters and that's why casting is so important. You want actors who bring that extra something.

If a film is going to be good or bad is 80% decided before the shooting begins, when the scripting, casting (including the crew members) are put into place.

I think we're both on the same page, its just when he asked what the next step was he was talking hypothetically when his script is ready which is why i said start pre production........i think Terry's tuned out lol.

Hello again, Brian i see your a steadicam op (i googled you :)), me too, noticed there is a jump from like 1979 to 2005 or somethin.......do you still work? if so it would be good to know your rates cause i don't know if im gonna have the time to do it myself on our next film.

Early doors at the moment.......lol we're at the shot list and shooting schedule stage ;).



Andy.

Steadicam is one of things I do. Yes, I still operate - booked for a job this coming week.

LOL Not everything is on the internet.

Bill,

I think now that my comment was based more upon the fact that I see your thought processes closely related to mine.

True.. I would like the script that I have written be produced by someone who is better able to do a good job than I am.

Yes, I printed off the script for Robin Hood Prince of Theifs to format my script. I find that most every script begins with FADE IN:

Thank you Andy! You sound like you were out of your mind drunk. You should have been with me last night haha.

Well I'm not entirely discouraged by this thread, however it has made me reconsider my approach to making this film. I do understand that no one is just going to give you money to make your film. I agree that sometimes people get into a fantasy world thinking that "oh I can make films, that looks so easy, all they did was bla bla.." For this reason, is why I get on here asking questions so that I can shed some of the misconceptions I may have about the film making process.

BTW. I like the idea of the shot list. It is something to consider which I appreciate tremendously because this is something that I wouldn't learn about if someone with experience didn't bring it up. However, I imagine on larger budgeted film sets, isn't there a person who goes out to search for sets...say a forest scene or a street scene etc..? I would think that the person who does that would also write up a shot list..

BTW (again..) I wasn't tuned out, I just work during the day, come home read everyone's posts and by that time I'm doseing off. Not because its boaring haha, but because I'm so tired.

Yesterday I found my begining scene for a short film I want to make. Everyone was telling me that making a few short films would be good practice... I don't know if anyone else does this...but normally I will listen to music and imagine scenes...

Recently I have been reading the script of a movie while watching it. I printed off the script for Braveheard and just watched it a few days ago. I do this to get an idea of what is necessary to consider when making a film. However I do understand that from paper to film, the scene changes considerably.

Andy...I am STILL downloading this damn promo video!! how big is it? haha

I don't think anyone is trying to discourage you but there is a lot to learn out there...

You wouldn't believe me if I told you how important formatting is and I can't blame you to not know about the idiosyncrasies of proper industry formatting. Read this: StorySense - Script Format Guide. Actually, spend a day reading everything on their site.

..and then some...
You don't have to have your finger on the Hollywood pulse to know that studios are in "sequel & franchise" mode. Not in the least because any feature requires a 25M marketing budget nowadays (US Domestic only!).

So even a low budget feature that only cost a couple of million to make, needs some serious boxoffice to recoup the markeing that's tacked on.

If I recall correctly Robert Rodriques' "El Mariachi" only cost 50K to make (on spec), but when it was picked up it was 2M to finish. No idea what the marketing was back then. I could be off some on the exact numbers, but you get the point.

Off course it was remade in Desperado (and D2) with some starpower attached to actually make it profitable.

Even A-list writers have it hard selling their spec scripts. It's a who-knows-who business and unless you can show it will make money, like if it has a frachise or A-list actor/actrice attached, they are going to turn you down.

Any reason for turning you down is basically what they'll be looking for even when they've agreed to look at your script (or more likely synopsis). Just your log line not being strong enough will be enough to skip over you. Or improper formatting...

My advice is to leave anything to do with production alone and concentrate on getting your script to be the best it can be and then try to get it out there.

If you set your goals high (and why not) you need an agent and it will be just as difficult to get them to read anything.

Don't spread yourself too thin, but look at other ways to get your ideas and stories out there. Write more of them, get them published, work with other creatives to produce them. It will all help you to build a network, possibly a career.

I'm not a big fan of script competitions or sites for publishiing your scripts (like InkTip) but there are some successes there.

If you feel adventurous the Writers Guild of America publishes a list with Guild Signatory Agents and Agency. You can send query letter to them with the log line and a synopis asking them if they want to read the script.

George/

Hey George, thanks for the feedback. I honestly do intend on focusing on my script as a primary objective but my original question was what should I consider after I have a solid script. People have said rewrite and honestly I am in the process of doing so. However, I was simply interested to know what I need to consider after I believe that there is nothing else to add to my script and am ready to try to start the journey of making it a film.

The comment about the shot list was just an appreciation of some experienced insight.

Again, thank you.
-Terry.

From my own experience, the best thing to do is just make a short film. Put your script in a drawer, find some friends with the necessary gear and some interest in making fools of themselves, find a location, write a 5-7 page scene for that location, shoot it, edit it and show it to everyone you know.

One project I participated in was the 48 Hour Film Project back in April in Philadelphia. The Louisville weekend is mid-July this year. Having such a short timeline forces you to be structured and well-prepared, but given the "curveballs" they throw at you, you also have to improvise. After that weekend, I had an instant appreciation for just how difficult it is to do this stuff. At the same time, I no longer feel overwhelmed at the prospect of doing it again. It's amazing how much you can learn in such a short period of time.

As everyone else has already said, your first attempt will be awful. Expect it. Embrace it. No one learns anything from instant success. What you're hoping for are the one or two things that turn out exactly the way you envisioned them, and that's what will keep you from being completely discouraged. It's like golf...it's the one good shot during the round that keeps you coming back.

Whilst you start with a "finished" script there will be rewrites and changes all through production...

The script may be "improved" to fit anything from actors to locations and for any reason, including budget restraints or practicality.

From the original script a shooting script is created and a shotlist/shooting schedule is worked out. This basically puts everything in an order in which it can be shot efficiently. Versioning is important in production (because of all the rewrites).

Talent gets "sides" with their lines/interaction; yet another script.

Script writeing software can usually create the different script layouts for you (shooting, sides, etc.)

George/

P.S. If you have a feature length script, quite possibly there are a few scenes or twists that you can rework into a short for some hands-on experience. Not unusual to play around with the same theme.

Lmao, sorry man it was as small as i could get it and still maintain the quality.

Yeah you were right friday night was crazy, i paid for it the next day though......at least i had this thread to keep my mind off it :).

As for who writes up the shotlist i still recommend doing it yourself cause it really gets you into the nuts and bolts of the film and thats the kind of intimate knowlage of the film you need.

Also i think location hunting is one of the best parts of filmmaking......its a good feeling when you find that perfect place like i did in my promo

Hey Sean, thanks for the feedback. I do intend on creating a short film that I hope will get me started in the processes of making a film on my own. I have been in the process of writing a script for it lately. Just yesterday I found the first scene for it.

You mentioned the Louisville weekend? what were you refering to? I live 20 minutes from Louisville Kentucky...

I finally got to see it after 20 minutes of downloading!! haha. I do admit it was worth it. It was well done. Which one was you? the guy in the first scene or the guy who blasted himself at the end?

The only thing though..nothing bad, but I thought the look of the shots were odd. Maybe it was the compression of the video over the internet, but it just seamed alittle wierd. Not like it was off but just..i dunno how to explain it honestly..it was like the gain or sharpness was turned up so much that it sort of distorted the colors maybe? I don't even know if that is what would do that to be honest but thats the only thing I saw that was alittle odd.

BTW, what frame rate was it shot in?

Check the list of cities at the link I posted. I believe the project is running in your town July 18th. You probably still have time to register. Some cities cap the number of entries, others don't. I'm not sure about Louisville.

For what it's worth, don't spend too much time on the script on your first short. It's sort of irrelevant. Lighting and sound are equally difficult with good scripts and bad scripts. Just go get your hands dirty, so to speak.

Alright awesome, thanks! Unfortunately I will be in Portugal in July...

But thanks for letting me know!

I wasn't actually in it myself, i was the dop, i filmed it and edited it.

I think what your reffering to is the day for night filter i used, well its meant to be more like late evening. Its been re edited since then (minor changes).

I always shoot safe which means i get a good quality un filtered image and do all my correction in post so its non destructive.

I shot it on the jvc hd100 in HDV25p mode.

thanks for watching it.

Andy.

The biggest problem with any writing, scripts included, is not adding things to the piece but figuring out what to take away. Polishing is a process of removing the superfluous in order to strengthen the essential.

OK for a quick play around, but if you want to have short that's does anywhere you need a really sharp script. You can get other people to DP and record sound.

Yes sir, well noted. I have in mind a few writers who will help me thin out the script if need be as well as sharpen.

Yea, I think that is what it is...were you going for more of a "film" look? I enjoyed the shots in the woods with the ferns, those were awesome but the movement of everything seamed a little faster than I anticipated for a 25p frame rate.. Do you think that has to do with the shutter speed you had it set to? Or is that as close as we can get with digital cameras before we must actually use film? (Assuming you were going for the film look..)

Over all it was awesome! I honestly want to see the finished product! The sequence of shots is what set it off. The tracking shot in the beginning through the forest where it stopped with one character hiding behind a tree was good as well as the shot at the end of the civilian’s eyes when being questioned. That shot emphasized instilled fear which was a good touch.

If the goal is to maintain creative control, you have to produce it yourself. I can't imagine you could recruit anyone worth their salt to work on a project, or raise cash to pay them, if you don't have at least a modicum of experience in all aspects of the process.

It's only a "play around" if you approach it as one. The goal should be quick hard lessons on how to actually get something completed. If you spend weeks and weeks writing and rewriting half a dozen pages, aren't we just stuck right where the original poster is now? Another stack of paper waiting for someone else to recognize the brilliance? It's much easier to buckle down and shoot something you're not terribly invested in for a first go. Otherwise, you're back to being afraid of "wasting" the writing with a poor production.

Thanks for the comments Terry im glad you liked it.

I think with the way cameras are progressing the gap between film and digital is gonna shrink dramatically. The RED camera is an amazing piece of technology and i couldn't tell the diffirence when i watched "jumper"

In my opinion the "film look" is simply progressive scan, and i think the hd100 in hdv25p mode is one of the nicest looking progressive cameras.....although i hate hdv as a formatte because its murder to work with.

BTW im glad you picked out the shot of the civilians eyes cause for me that was the pivital part of the whole thing, i was so worried that we got an actor that couldn't deliver the goods but Peter was great http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1280176/

Andy.

Oh its hard to work with hdv? Do you mind me asking what about it is difficult? I plan on buying the HD200u...

No, assuming you've got a good story and a good script, quite a few people will want to work on it. However, you do have to learn the skills of a producer, or team up with someone who wishes to go down that path and sees what's in the story.

There are crew people starting out in the industry who wish to practise their skills and shorts are a good place to do it. Many of them are happy to take a smart, talented writer who wishes to direct, who is willing to learn and has done their homework (i.e. been reading various books on filmmaking/production, so they know the questions to ask) in under their wing and give guidance. These are usually freebies. Filmmaking is a collaborative process and this isn't that unusual.

You can do technical exercises, which are fine, but writing and directing a good short is a difficult business and requires creative application. All the successful, award winning shorts that I know of have had weeks of work in their scripts.

People can go out shooting material to learn the mechanical processes, but they'll have to apply the scripting process in order to really progress. In some ways, as a director, you're better knowing the editing than the camera end.

There is a whole load of science behind HDV, if you google it or search this forum youl'll find it.

What all this means is that when using final cut pro you get problems during the capture process, if final cut encounters a timecode break or drop out it creates a new clip. It takes the computer around 1-4 seconds to re aquire the image which means your loosing 1-4 seconds of your footage and thats a real pain if it does it in the middle of an actors dialogue or your dolly shot.

Although iv not been keeping up to date in the pro hd room i think it still hasn't been fixed by apple. And iv not updated my software in a long time.

I don't want to put you off the camera cause the image is superb. To minimise this problem you can use proper HDV tapes and remember to roll the camera for 10 sec before and after "action" is called.

go and rent this film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0857376/ cause it was shot entirely on the HD100, thats another bit of advice.......watch movies, as many as you can cram into your personal time. you need t know whats out there and to watch others. Iv seen so many films i wouldn't know where to start if someone asked me to list them.......the french are twisted by the way! watch some of their stuff.

Andy.

That was shot on the HD100? Wow, the camera is capable of doing more than I thought. I honestly cannot tell it from film. I looked it up on youtube btw.. but I will still go rent it.

About French films...I saw one a year ago about like some underground sex cult...it was insane. Some guy's face gets smashed with a fire extinguisher and they show the entire thing.

Give me a list of films and I'll go rent em!

Man i'm impressed, the film was called "irreversible" by Gaspar Noe and its one of the films i had in mind.

lot of the films i watch are so obscure i wouldn't even know where to direct you to get them. They come through other filmmaker friends.

Off the top of my head i would recommend

"feast" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0426459/ an american film that i don't think was ever released over here . Ithought this film was hillarious.

As mentioned before "five across the eyes" shot for absolutely buttons (£2000) starts bad but bare with it cause by the end you'll be shouting at the screen about what they should do......at least i was. its not a good film but by the end it developes character.

"Pans Labyrinth" a bit more mainstream but one of my favourate films

"itchi the killer" insane film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0296042/

"shutter" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0440803/ the origional one not the re make.

"the exorcism of emily rose" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0404032/ a film that i love......... and then rent "Requiem" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0454931/ which is a German film about the same story. Its a good exorcise to see the different ways other filmmakers and countries deal with the same story.

Some of the more obscure ones i can't remember the names of so ill post back when i talk to my Director friend who i'm picking up today to work on our script.

Andy.

alright awesome, thanks! I'll go see if I can find them.

My favorite movies are generally historically bassed movies like Breaveheart, 300, Troy..etc. I have just as big of a history channel, National Geographic collection as I do anything else.

For practice, I printed off the script for Robin Hood - The prince of Thives. I find that they cut out alot of the movie to make it fit within a reasonable time frame.

Hey BTW, since you work with the HD100, what would you suggest for a good matte box for my HD200, Chrosziel? what specs if so..

I just bought a great little matte box recently. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UNIVERSAL-BAR-...742.m153.l1262

superb bit of kit for not much money considering the chrosziel is about a grand. it fits like a glove and is just the right size (i.e its not bigger than the camera like some others iv seen)

Andy.

awesome..now that looks like a good matte box for the price range i'm looking for.

any suggestions for a follow focus? well let me ask you this. The only reason I think I need a damn follow focus is because HD is of such a high resolution everyone will notice when my shot is out of focus. So my reasoning behind it is if I want crisp in focus shots, I will need a follow focus. But is that even a good reason to spend almost a grand on one?

The follow focus won't get your shots any more in focus than if you just turned the focus ring with your hand as normal. The reason to use a follow focus is (at least in the digital realm) for focus pulls, thats when you have an actor in the foreground and an actor in the background and you switch focus from one to the other. In this case you focus on one actor and mark the ring on the follow focus and then focus on the other actor and do the same, then a focus puller can move btween each mark and you know it will be in focus.

If i were you id find one at a similar price to the mattebox, there are many of them around, the same company on ebay that does the mattebox also does a follow focus. Be carefull though, look at the pictures to se what side the gear is on, i had trouble fitting mine and i ended up doing a bit of diy modification to the base on the rail system.

i wouldn't spend a grand on it. use the money to buy other things like a good mic, the sennheisser ME66 is a half decent boom mic.

Andy.

Ohhh alright, so the knob is turned toward the camera man so that he has easier access to the focus ring...Well thats odd, I thought that is what the letus35 was built to do. From my understanding, the zoom lenses on the cameras had such a wide appeture (I think...) that you couldn't really get good control of the DOF. So you'd need something like the letus35 or mini35 for digital film. But i'm probably absolutely wrong on that haha.


Yea, I plan on getting a DAT recorder with a boom mic...that will be thrown in with everything as well. I am sort of taking it step by step still. Making sure I know EVERYTHING about each little aspect of the equipment. I remember back when I first started posting in this forum you were one of the first to help me with this stuff. Btw, how did the reconstructions in caithness turn out?

Hey id forgotten all about that, that job never went ahead.....not sure what happened with it. Good memory though

The follow focus is just an add on to the lens so that the focus puller can easily control the focus ring. With film it has a very shallow depth of field which means not much room for the actor to move before he is out of focus and so they have a professional focus puller that controls the focus leaving the camera operator to do his job.

The mini35 and letus35 are designed to put the exact same field of view as a 35mm film camera on to the CCD chips, this coupled with film lenses gives you the same depth of field as a film camera, which also brings the problems of a film camera i.e shallow depth of field and not much room to move.

I'v never used a lens adapter before so im limited in what i can tell you about them, i just know id be very reluctant to use one unless i had a lot of time with one to test it out. They used the stock lens when they shot "Gabriel"

Normally i keep it safe with the stock lens and if i want shallow depth of field i use the telly photo end of the lens and get as far back from the actor as i can (like the focus pull in my promo)

Andy.

BTW if your ever stuck during production drop me an email through my public profile and i'll do my best to help you out.

So bassically, The mini35 and the Letus35 just alows DV cameras to operate optically like film cameras correct? Would you think that would be pretty necessary? probably not since you don't use one and your shots are pretty damn good from what I saw with the promo trailer.

So what do you think with a follow focus then..should I even waste my time? I mean, I can get someone to be my focus puller, but honestly I don't see the need for me, someone who is just learning this stuff, to spend that kind of money on one.

I think all I'm gonna worry about is a matte box, hard drive for the hd200, battery pack (anton bauer..), filters for the matte... Boom mic... Does that seam a little bare?

anyway...I'll definately keep you in mind. I really appreciate you helping me out with this stuff. Honestly, no one around here is interested in film what so ever. What is your personal website?

You've got it now, i personally don't think its necessary because im still very much learning the craft as well and i don't want to give my self the extra stress of worrying if the footage is in focus or not especially if im making a film that some one has invested in. I'm not saying don't use one, there are many that do and if done right it looks great, im just saying its something to think about.

You're right the follow focus isn't that important and to be honest iv only used it once, what i will say for it though is when you have an HD100 or in your case HD200 with mattebox rails and follow focus it is very impressive to look at and that is IMO an important factor, your actors and crew will feel better if they are working with professional looking equipment especiall if they're not getting paid..

As long as you have a camera, tripod, audio equipment and an edit suit you can make a film. If you want shots like in my promo you'll need a crane and dolly, if you read my shadow land thread you'll see there is a lot you can make your self.

My web site is www.camerashy.org.uk but it is seriously out of date, the guy who updates it is in thailand at the moment and won't be back for a while. I intend on getting a website made specifically for shadow land, i have a web designer that owes me a favour.

Andy.

Hey Andy, I have been working like crazy this week and haven't been able to get to the computer lately. I came down with a cold the other day too. No fun at all...

I think for now I will just stick with the stock 16x lens and worry about adapters once I get a good hold on this stuff. I would still like to get a good matte box. The one you suggested/bought looks pretty reasonable and you liked it, so thats good enough for me. But filters....what did you end up getting?

For audio I was looking at the A/T 897. B&H has a pretty good kit...what do you think? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...icrophone.html

Editing suit - Final Cut Pro on the Mac

Tripod - I honestly have no clue. Every tripod I look at looks flemsy and the head looks like it will hardly hold the camera.

I have plans drawn to build my own Steadicam but I don't have the proper dimensions.

I have already built my own crane and dolly just sitting and waiting to be used.

Hey Terry, Yeah i don't think you'll be disappointed with that matte box, i was over the moon with it. As for filters i'v not actually bought any for it, i use it mainly for controling the light that goes into the lens, if i was going to buy a filter it would be a polarizing filter which just cuts out reflections in glass. i wouldn't use any coloured filters cause you can do that in final cut studio and its non destructive.

The mic kit looks good to me, never used it before but audio technica are a decent make and the price seems about right.

Remember and buy final cut studio 2, i know its expensive but you need the full workflow from capture to dvd.

For a tripod i use a manfrotto http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...HDV_3284_.html the 501 head is a good head although with the hd100 fully loaded its at the limit of its weight capabillities and the alternative is a bigger system which can cost up to £3000, i used a 503 once and didn't like it as much.

By all means give it a go with building a steadicam but its a very complicated bit of equipment and there are some reasonably priced systems out there like the glidecam smooth shooter.

Andy.

Yeah, that matte looks just as good as any one of the expensive ones... What are the little flaps inside for? I've never seen them on a matte box before..or maybe I just wasn't looking hard enough..

I currently work with PC. But I am thinking about switching to Mac..But to get a system with the performance I am needing to edit video of the caliber, it will cost me around the £2000 range.. (I think that should be like 4 grand in U.S. currency). With PC, I can build a decent machine for around $1200. So whats drawing me toward PC is that I am familiar with it and it is less expensive. What is drawing me toward Mac is FCP2 and Mac computers generally preform better not to mention a lot of feature films are edited with FCP2. So I suppose what I am afraid of is dumping money into a system that won't preform properly. I had it mind to get Sony Vegas and build my own PC. Vegas runs around $500 and the system I would build would be, like I said, around the $1200 range. I think I'm talking myself into sticking with PC, but what would you do in this situation?

The reason I chose that AT kit was because it was decently priced with a boom pole. I discussed getting a mixer before but I think I will be fine without one for now...

Also, one last thing...What is the hard drive that is built for the HD100/200? I forget the name/number. I would way rather work with a hard drive because I don't want to run time up on my camera using tape unless I want to buy a decent deck which equals more money..

Ok, time to go lay down and try to get rid of this cold. I bought the BBC Planet Earth series..I fall asleep half way through every episode, but it is absolutely amazing.