Hi Everyone,

Well, after all of the great information I have received on this forum, I finally dove in and purchased a camcorder.

Before I tell you which one, I'd like to thank everyone for their help and their guidance which convinced me to avoid purchasing a SD camera. While I know there are many out there that take very fine pictures, I have to face the fact that I want to shoot nice looking 16:9 video onto DVD... now... and be able to deliver full resolution Blu-Ray's in the future. Buying HD now allows me to do that and to get what I see as the best bang-for-the-buck picture. Of course, having a birthday coming up and getting some cash presents helped a lot also! :D

The choice between the Canon XH-A1 and the Sony HVR-Z1U was a tough one. Especially since I could not find any place here in town that had either one for me to go look at. This is where the experience here really came into play. Not being able to touch them myself made your knowledgeable insight invaluable in helping me make the decision.

I should note that I had taken a serious look at the Panasonic HVX200 because these were available, at their lowest end prices, within my top end, but the lack of recording HDV to the miniDV tapes AND the exorbitant prices of the P2 media cards (what's up with that? why not readily available CF cards or a P2 host card that you can plug micro/mini/full SD cards into?!?) and their relatively short recording time put it out of the consideration for me.

The Canon XH-A1

The video I have seen on both Vimeo and YouTube that was taken with the Canon has, IMO, been excellent.

Pros: On the pro side the resolution and color rendering has really been excellent. It has a nice warm presentation, though without having been at the various shoot locations, I cannot say how much it influences the color. Oh, and then there is the 20x lens. (Seems like a 16-20x lens should become standard at this price point for the shooting flexibility it provides!) The 24F mode is supposed to be quite helpful for aspiring film makers, though at this time, it is not a factor for me. These are available used at a price that is about $500 cheaper (on average) than the Z1U's.

Cons: On the con side, the color saturation is usually lacking. Also, reports of a steep learning curve and difficulty in getting the low light settings correct are, for my needs, worrisome. Also, because of its relative complexity (translating to flexibility in the right hands) it is more difficult for a novice to use and for "run and gun" situations. In addition, at times, it can appear over sharpened.

The Sony HVR-Z1U

On the other hand, the video I've seen from the Sony Z1U is also very good, especially for a 3-4 year old design.

Pros: On the pro side, the low light capability, smoother grain in low light, and a slightly softer presentation are nice. Also, it appears to be the most novice/run and gun friendly with the best out of the box performance. The color saturation appears to be a bit better with this camera, too.

Cons: On the con side, it has a noticeably cooler color presentation. To me, this can be especially irritating in situations where you have a relatively pale or reddish faced person in the frame because it gives them a slightly purplish cast. However, it appears that this is something that can be relatively readily addressed with the use of Warm Cards (or equivalent) during in camera white balancing or in post. These are available at a used price that is about $500 more than the XH-A1. No real usable 24F mode, though based on my needs and from what I have read about conversion software, this may be more of a pro than a con as the software is now supposed to be able to do a great job converting from 60i to 24p.

The deciding factor for me was seeing what appeared to be a Sony Z1U at the Olympics (on NBC) and the banner at the end of each broadcast saying that NBC was using Sony cameras. The picture from any camera, including the Z1U, I saw during those broadcasts was, to my eyes, fantastic. I cannot imagine being disappointed with video in this league.

I guess I just gave away my decision in this last paragraph. Yep, I picked up a Sony Z1U with <150 drum hours for just south of $3000. Another of the deciding factors for me was that the XH-A1 does not have a screen that shows how many hours it has on it, so you are having to trust the seller that it has what they say it has. When spending $2000-3000, that made it easier to spend the extra few hundred dollars. At least I know how much use it has. It should arrive tomorrow (Friday, 8/29).

Now to learn how to use the darned thing and to find a good price on Sony HD MiniDV tapes (what it has been "dining on" to this point according to the former owner). One thing I have learned from reading posts here and elsewhere, "Don't mix tapes!"

Thanks again for all of your help!

Best regards,

Scott

I used to have both of them, all in all A1 is a 'better' ( if I can say so) camera, but in full auto Z1 looks noticeably better ( including auto focus) and has larger LCD, I never use EVF.

(edit)
a bit late with my advice, anyways,
great choice, congrats, you won't be disappointed

:)

Scott - a good read and you've done your homework well. I was slightly surprised by the outcome because of your pros and cons listings but I can't fault your conclusions.

Bottom line is that whichever camera you'd chosen it's still only an inanimate lump of glass, plastic and magnesium. It sits there on the shelf waiting for input - any input. By itself it's mantelpiece junk, so get to know it so that on lifting it from the kit-bag it's an extension of your hands.

Nothing in this life is free and all cameras have their compromises, but take a look at this. The Canon has a 20x zoom yet costs quite a bit less than the Z1 with it's 12x zoom. In today's cut-throat and competitive marketplace something has to give to make this possible or the maths won't add up.

So you chose well my son.

tom.

I strongly suspect that the banner reference was to their use of the new PDW700, I'm sure I've heard reference to them taking delivery of an early batch of several dozen especially for the Olympics. It's highly likely that they also had the use of a number of Z1's as "B" cameras.

Will the pictures from the Z1 be as good as from the PDW700? Highly unlikely (it's 2/3" 1920x1080 XDCAM-HD with 4:2:2 50Mbs recording), but since a lens for a PDW700 is likely to cost several times as much by itself as a Z1, that's hardly surprising! ;)

Tom,

Yeah, I know what you mean. Then again, I found that out with my old (fully auto only) camcorder which is why I wanted to upgrade so that I COULD delve deeper into manual options to get better pictures.

However, you bring up a good point about learning how to use a camcorder of this class, especially without any local support (user groups, etc.) available. Any suggestions for tutorials for me to look at? Oh, please keep in mind that I have already blown most of my budget in buying the camera... :(

Scott

David,

I realize that, but I was careful to watch out for Z1's after I saw that disclaimer (claimer? :D).

I noticed that when the video cut to the Z1's (NBC appeared to use them for highly mobile audience/close up shots where the stationary cameras and even the PDW700's would be too bulky) it became slightly softer with a slightly "harsher" contrast (ok, I know I'm not explaining this correctly) than the stationary cameras that were focused on the actual events.

I feel comfortable saying they were Z1U's because of the XLR inputs and the combination of mic and LCD positioning (DVR's are great for replaying video where one camera catches a few seconds of another!). However, the "look" was substantially the same. Enough so that I'm sure I will be very happy with the camera, especially with what I see as a better (for me) white balance.

Thanks again for all of your help. Now to head over to the Z1U forum and get some feedback on other questions. :)

Scott

HD camcorder to replace my old Canon XM1
 

Dear All,

I have been videoing my 2 daughters (now 10 & 13) ever since 2002 when I bought the XM1 at HK$12800. I love its low-light quality, 20X lens and slow zoom. I bought a smaller Cannon MV450 for summer vacation trips when I felt that the XM1 was too heavy. My wife also hate XM1's strange shape. However, after one trip, I had to switch back to my XM1 for all video occassions including trips and reserve the MV450 as a play back deck and sometimes as a B camera for my kids stage performances. The zoom of MV450 is terrible.

Now I believe its time to get a new HD cam to replace SD when I watched Bejing Olympics in HD in front of a 46" LCD TV. I compare the Sony A1U (smaller and cheaper than Canon A1 but one CCD HK$21500), Canon A1 (stick with the same brand advantages but HK$25800!!) and Canon HV30 (cheapest and poor zoom and etc, like my MV450). I finally decided to save money to buy the Canon A1 as I believe the look of the videos of A1 could be quite the same as my old XM1.

Regards

Kenneth

There is a good DVD on the Z1 that I saw years ago (others here will know of it). I skipped through it and got bogged down in the menus... The instruction book is good - have the camera with you, have lots of time and do what the book says, thinking it through.

Best thing is you talk to the mics. Go forth and *use* that camera, all the time telling the mics, 'This shot is auto focus, Steadyshot on hard, manual w/bal, locked shutter, gain and iris' - things like that.

Then pop indoors and watch this footage on a well set up TV, and your voice along with having 'display' turned on will teach you a lot and quickly. Try and use the camera every day. With it connected to a TV (and using that as a big v/finder) put the Z1 on a tripod, poke it out the window and have a look at what the NDs do for dof, the shutter speeds do for movement, the gain does for grain.

Read my post again starting, 'I'd say there was nothing in it Scott' as that's how you want to be - knowing instinctively what switches and buttons to push as you run towards the fireball.

tom.

Well here's a place to start... and it's free! SONY HVR-Z1 COURSE WORKBOOK AND TRAINING MANUAL: CONTENTS PAGE - WWW.URBANFOX.TV

Thanks this is good link