dv switchers ** help !!!
 

thanks Chris for the approval !

hello, I am looking for a switch box to plug 2 cameras into, using 6 pin firewire cables, then from the switch box to the computer.


I am starting a live internet streaming show and need to switch between cameras on the fly, without the computer "seeing" that there was a switch so it doesnt drop the connection.

I have found a few 1394 switchers, but they are in the 1000 to 6000 dollar range, that seems ridiculous.

I have found that the box needs to be "syncronous" so that it can flip between the inputs and not drop the connection.

need some help !

I think you'd be better to buy a cheap analog mixer and a analog to dv converter. Cut the show on the mixer and run it to the converter and into the computer. It would allow you to cut the show without the connection problems. The total cost would be about $500 for a used mixer and new converter.

If your show was for tv that would be a bad setup. For the internet though I think it would be a cheap and effective way to go.

If you are using Windows, we have a DV switcher DirectShow plug-in that can switch up to 4 cameras live. It is still in development but fully functional.

Please PM me for more info.

John.

Benn, analog ? so you mean from the camera using the RCA's, to the box, and then from the box to the computer, via what? USB ? DV ? 6pin 8pin ? sounds like thats what I may need.

John, thanks, but I am a proud Apple Mac user.

so something like this

PYRO A/V Link Basic

and wat kind of mixer ??


THANKS !!!!! THIS SITE KICKS BUTT.

what about this, would this allow me to switch DV inputs on the fly without dropping the connection ??

OWC Express34 FireWire 400+USB2 Add On Card... (EXPC342F1U) at OWC

Yes, analog. Yes, the pyro av converter would work fine. No, the firewire card by itself won't switch the sources. You would need a card like that plus software to handle a switch.

As for a mixer, look up Panasonic video mixers on ebay. Check out some of the newer ones like Edirol from the sponsor sites here at dvinfo.

aye sir im on it ! thank you

wow, still all this stuff is way out of the budget.

theres gotta be a simpler way.

check the link i posted at my mac forums

dv switchers help !!! - Mac Forums

Sorry, we can only offer advice, not money : )

Maybe think about expanding your budget. Or capture to tape and cut the show in post. Good luck.

au contraire mon frere, you can offer money, and I can gladly accept, paypal is loneshark@gmail.com !! LOL

i need to start a fundraiser or rob a bank !

Felipe,

If you are still struggling to find a solution, you can still use our switcher software. With Apple's Boot Camp, you can install Windows on your Mac and use our switcher to capture to raw DV files (to make it easy to use them with your Mac).

Yesterday, I uploaded a package to our website:

http://www.enosoft.net/dl.php?filena...her31Aug08.zip

Features are described on the VideoHelp forum:

4-channel DV switcher software available for download - VideoHelp.com

John.

loading windows on a mac is stupid, please lets not get into this debate. I do not encourage anyone to use windows on a mac. yes it works. but it is not a viable solution. thanks for your input. :)

check my youtube page for some of my work. I have alwasy been an artist of sorts, and videography is just another media i have found to express my ideas.

http://www.youtube.com/loneshark2000

this was my very first final cut pro en devour. took me 13 hours from start to finish. learned the entire program in that time as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3walgM9Ff6I

those are my boys, Amber Rose

then i did something quick and dirty for my car club

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPE_bDY39OQ

then i got a client while i was out shooting Amber Rose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nIB5DYXgac

then another quick fina lcut pro mix for Amber Rose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l20TQ1X_iA4

then i setup the fatal the maskman page and did some post

http://www.youtube.com/fatalthemaskman

then i setup the Amber Rose youtube page and streamed their show live and also mixed in post, compare the sound quality of the last song vice the first six, tell me what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/amberroserocks

There's nothing at all stupid about it. It works fine and it opens up the ability to use a lot of excellent applications on your chosen hardware platform.

Which is a really great thing.

And if someone were kind enough to offer a solution to a problem I had, I think I'd begin my reply with a "Thank you." even if for some reason it wasn't the solution I was looking for.

"thank you."

I did thank Mr. Miller above and previously stated that I am a proud mac user, and he still pitched me a windows based program.

real mac users, dont need windows. ;)

Hi Felipe,

I'm not trying to be argumentative and I'm a hard core Mac user (ask anyone around here). I'm also a former Store Operations Manager for Apple Retail. It's my humble opinion that you need to open your eyes and consider Windows XP Pro just another tool in your tool box. After all, if Macs weren't meant to run Windows, Steve Jobs would have never OK'd it.

OK.

I suggest it purely as a very inexpensive alternative to your hardware options since cost appears to be your most significant constraint. A complete and viable solution for less than $200.

Good luck with whatever solution you go with.

John.

sincerely, thanks !

but i would like to see more apps of this nature for macs.

i do have some qualms with adobe and not having or creating certain encoders for intel based macs, and i have submitted my complaints throught the proper channels, only to get a politically correct answer.

ADOBE get with the program ! spend the money to design the encoders ! quit messing around. ! <3

I've done a couple jobs with an analog switcher and it's worked out fine. Here's a low-budget option:

Mac (you already own I assume)

Production cameras (you also already own I assume)

Camcorder with analog-digital passthrough ~$300 (I use a Canon Elura 100 bought used from BH)

Datavideo SE-500 analog switcher - $1000 (there are better ones but you said you're on a budget)

We captured into FCP, but if you want to webcast it live, there are several programs that will let you do that with your Firewire input on your Mac.

So there you have it - $1300 or less, low-budget, switches up to 4 cameras, decent quality for web, uses a Mac -- problem solved.

(BTW, arguing about Windows on a Mac is kinda silly. Seems like it's just another tool in the Mac user's favor. Our hardware works both ways... (-: It lets us take advantage of tools like John Miller's without needing two computers, which we would have had to do a couple years ago. PC users still wish they could run FCP! )

nice !

well, well im using ustream.tv as my live web streamer for one, so i dont have a dedicated server for this... ...yet

2. my macbook pro will not log and capture, so using a dedicated application to capture the video, is out of the question for now.

i dont understand the camcaorder with analog to digital passthrough suggestion, why would i need that, if i was trying to run the setup you suggested.

why wont this just work for me. i think it would.

nNovia FireSwitch Switcher a 4 canali DV/IEEE-1394

The analog to digital passthrough is to convert the analog mixer output to DV so you can capture to your MacBookPro. If you get a firewire switcher obviously you wouldn't need that step, however I didn't use a firewire switcher.

I can't really comment on the switcher you posted a link to - never used it, don't know anything about it. Just telling you my experience and how I solved the same issue you're up against. I think there are several options in front of you that people have brought up, you just have to pick the one most attractive to you at this point.

Your MacBookPro should be able to log and capture unless for some reason your firewire port is broken or you don't have DV capturing software. Both are fixable - you can get software (obviously) or if you need an additional firewire port, you can get an ExpressCard with a firewire port and capture that way. I use that to add a second firewire bus and reduce the conflicts between my external hard drive and my capturing camera, and has allowed me to use some of my older firewire drives that wouldn't work on the single firewire bus.

Anyway, if I was you I'd pick a solution that seems attractive to you, spend the money, and get shooting. That'll answer a lot of your questions. Don't get lazy if you hit problems, which you undoubtedly will no matter what you try - understand and work through each challenge you run into. That's how you distance yourself from your competition, not necessarily having the 'perfect' setup from the start, because there isn't one.

That's just my thoughts on it. Do whatever you want, man. Just stick it out until it works for you.

thanks yo, very well spoken.

BUT... reason i cant use final cut pro to log and capture is that FCP requires a harddrive that spins no less than 7200 RPM. The macbooks all macbooks, use slower 5400 RPM drives.

That nnovia should work great. Keep in mind that everything will be a "hard cut." The benefit of a Video Switcher would be a T-bar you could pull for cross fades. If you get a chance, watch the little video I put together with the product manager of the worlds most popular switcher, the Edirol V-4. It's the episode called "Video Switchers" at DV eStore Theatre

One solution would be to pipe your cameras into an Edirol V-4 then connect the S-Video Output into a Canopus ADVC110 then Firewire out into your MacBook and capture with QuickTime Player Pro. (change the input in your QT prefs then simply hit "New Movie Recording"
I've been capturing DV to Mac laptops with 5400 RPM drives for years. Here's an analog video passing through an Ultimatte DV real time chromakeyer and then captured through a Canopus ADV110 (Analog to DV converter) DV Gear Talk
Worked brilliantly!
And yes, new MacBook Pro's can be custom configured with 200GB 7200 RPM drives. We sell them :) ....and the mixers.....and the canopus'

nice suggestion there, thats what im talking about, a real viable solution and proof as well.

FCP is my problem, it requires a 7200 RPM drive to log and capture

iMovie and QT capture fine, you are correct sir.

thanks !!!

more more more !

nice episode ! very informative and well put together.

Did you do all their info-mercials.

who do you work for? self or commecial ?

thanks !


also:::::


Do they make a cheaper digital video converter, the Canopus ADVC110 goes for about 250, and the edirol v4 for about 800 to 1000.

One of these if you can pick one up:

Datavideo DAC-100 Digital-to-Analog Converter

excellent !!! now you guys are thinkin !!

how about one of those, coming from one of these that the cameras are connected to.

Rca Vh911 Video Source Selector | Brandsplace


dont mind the site that i found it on, or the model or manufacturer, all I want is the capability.

You'll get glitches when you switch. It's meant for simple switching in your living room between a DVD player and a satellite box, for example.

yea, thats what i was worried about, i suppose if it was digital, vice analog or better said mechanical switches it would/should work better, but it would involve buying them and testing it.

Nope. The "real" switchers use one of two methods:
-Framestore synchronization: this delays the incoming signal until the scan lines are at the same place and then either "cuts" or "dissolves" the feeds together, which are now synchronized at the same line in the scan; or
-"True" synchronization using phase and subcarrier to actually change the timing of the scanning circuitry of a device to that both devices are synchronized (see above)

The "bang box" method used by A/V selectors literally just moves contacts from one source directly to another, regardless of where the signals are at, creating what we call sync roll or sync tear.

ahhhhhhhhhh. thank you !!

Just wanted to say, thanks to all putting in their two cents. Im learning so much. reading on my own time, and learning as fast as I can.

quick story; I met some kid the other day, who was very interested in my work, and complimented on my videos, and as we started to talk, he tells me he's at an art institute for videography, and digital media. He said he had been there for a while and was learning alot. So I started to quiz him on things that I have learned, from exporting files in FCP, to editing techniques and the use of short cut keys in FCP. As the conversation progressed, I was teaching him more than he had learned in his year at the art institute, and I think I made him feel like he wasnt learning anything, because a few weeks later we met again, and he told me he dropped out, and decided to go to the local community college. When I asked why, he tells me he learned more from me in an hour than he did in his time at the art institute. I was shocked.

Just goes to show you that passion and finding yourself amongst the same minded people help more than just forcing yourself to digest information.

So thanks to all who are on these forums, schooling a newb like me !

Share and share alike, Felipe! I for one and thankful for those that took me under their wing when I started so I like to give back when I can. It ALSO helps that you aren't in my market going after my clients! <laughs> I'm a firm believer in Karma. Give and you shall receive three-fold, which allows you to give even more!

hahaha, if your an entourage fan, you should know how Ari Gold feels about stealing other peoples clients.

and yes, Karma comes full circle! I am already seeing other local videographers trying to work my clients for cheaper, and also trying to work with me in order to work with my clients.

there are so many snakes in the grass in the entertainment industry.

People have reported problems getting the filter to register which isn't very helpful. So, I've put an installation package on our server that should take care of everything:

http://www.enosoft.net/dl.php?filena...erFilter32.msi

If you have problems with this, please let me know.

Heh, and real Mac users are used to paying top end prices for top end equipment to do top end work. So $6k for a live DVI switcher isn't too bad. You could also just get one of the $20K Sony Anycast stations and skip the computer step all together and do the switching and live streaming all in one box.

wow, you sound a little bitter Jason. If you have nothing wise to say, dont hijack my threads with random useless comments.

is there an admin in the house?

and John, stop whoring my thread with windows based progs. and banter.

My apologies. I did not mean to sound bitter. Only a bit ironic given some comments back and forth in the above discussion. Also I was in your exact place not more than a few months ago when I was researching ways to perform live switching between multiple cameras and stream the result.

My comment was meant to point out that quality switching takes money, some times a significant amount of it. As does quality production suites like FCP/PP. As does quality edit system hardware of which you indicated your strong preference for your preferred top quality OS / NLE (some might say condescending approach to all others).

You may also note that I am a long time contributor to DVInfo. As such, one thing I did notice with this thread is the tone of some comments which is not necessarily in keeping with the rest of DVInfo and the environment Chris has worked to foster, like the choice of language above. Just my personal observation.

Feel free to ignore anything you don't like to hear, include this entire post.

I have no idea what "banter" you are refering to unless you mean the advice I have given you regarding cheaper alternatives to Canopus DV converters, why to avoid cheap switch boxes etc.

Regarding the "whoring", I was doing the appropriate thing to alert those people who had followed up on my suggestion that there was a problem.

You are a new boot, with this thread being your introduction to the community. I would recommend turning down the aggressive stance if you are to receive help from those of us who have been around the block on this forum a few times and understand the professional air that Chris has created to set it apart from other forums.

I'm sorry you consider the time I gave to offer you assistance a frivolous and inappropriate exercise.

I shall not post to this thread any further.

thank you major player !