Full Sail
 

Have any of you heard of this school? I'm possibly enrolling soon. I'm going to their open house this Sunday to check it out. It seems like a really nice school. www.fullsail.com

I went there for an Adobe seminar, and thought it was a decent campus. However, having talked to actors who have worked in the student films, I learned that they tend to be chaotic in some aspects. For instance, class projects rotate students in all roles. The old "Everyone gets a turn at bat" theory.

The school does teach you in the use of all manner of equipment, 35mm, 16mm, and even Avid editing.

I worked with someone who graduated from there and they didn't have any real skills for practical shooting. They shot a 35mm short film that really sucked - it's all he talked about for 2 years after graduating. However, he couldn't even produce a simple television show with me. (trust me it was easy)

Anyway, it was a waste of cash in my opinion. Go somewhere that will give you PRACTICAL skills...that's where you'll make money. This 35mm short B.S. isn't working anymore...unless you are heading to Hollywood or NY and plan to starve for 10 years.

I'd buy an HD camera, shoot constantly, work in video production to make a living...enter film fests, write your own scripts and bang away at that for a few years...along the way you'll figure it all out and in the end you'll be 100% independent.

Murph

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : I worked with someone who graduated from there and they didn't have any real skills for practical shooting. They shot a 35mm short film that really sucked - it's all he talked about for 2 years after graduating. However, he couldn't even produce a simple television show with me. (trust me it was easy)

Anyway, it was a waste of cash in my opinion. Go somewhere that will give you PRACTICAL skills...that's where you'll make money. This 35mm short B.S. isn't working anymore...unless you are heading to Hollywood or NY and plan to starve for 10 years.

I'd by an HD camera, shoot constantly, work in video production to make a living...enter film fests, write your own scripts and bang away at that for a few years...along the way you'll figure it all out and in the end you'll be 100% independent.

Murph -->>>

Yea I realized that going to school will never educate me like good experience will. But I hear from everyone that the Avid is the intustry leader. The only software I know how to use is Adobe software and I'm thinking that i can't really get anywhere with that, being that most of these production companies are running Avid systems. Or at least thats what I'm told. I'm not the richest person in the world so I can't afford an Avid system or a 35mm camera to learn on.

And I don't know anybody in the industry (I'm a lone rider in my area!) so wouldn't the degree I earn from this school help me find a job in the future?

I have no idea about any of this stuff so enlighten me!

Dustin,

If you want to have an edge, I suggest you learn Avid AND Final Cut Pro.

If editing is what you want to do, do it. I myself love to edit, and would rather do this 10-12 hours a day, than almost anything else. John is right in suggesting you learn Avid and FCP, as these are what 90% of the existing production firms use these.

I would like to add, that you should learn with what you already have as well. I use Premiere, and find it perfectly suitable. I learned J cuts and L cuts, transitions, audio synching, and compositing with it. The platform and program are merely the tools. It's knowledge and experience that will get you noticed.

Self employed- Pay sucks, but the Boss is really cool!

Some additional remarks concerning Full Sail, from 2002.

You could buy yourself a computer instead with lots of hard drive space and learn the Avid and FCP interfaces yourself. What you really need to work on though is the creative aspect of your editing. You can go to the library and borrow books (Eisenstein, Pudovkin, and Walter Murch books should be worth reading) and dissect films yourself. And of course, cut your own films and get other people to critique it. That's assuming you want to get into editing. I'm not sure what exactly you want to get into.

I believe an Avid system is cheaper than tuition. Full Sail probably has some stuff that was ok a few years old. I suggest you go to their campus if you can and talk to students and faculty there. They can tell you what the program is like, what the equipment is like, whether they like the program, etc.

You can also check out the book "Film School Confidential" (free online) for some advice on whether or not film school is good, what you should do at film school, and other advice.

Wow thanks for all the info guys! Its hard to make a decision right now. I have people on one side of me saying that film school is a waste of time and I have another group on the other side of me telling me I'm worthless if I dont go to school. Oh well, I'm going there Sunday to check out the campus. I'll let you all know how it goes.

It's not so much that film school is a waste of time as it's Full Sail that's a waste of time. You'll spend a tremendous amount of time and money basically just learning tools. No real world experience, and no preparation for the real world.

In and around town here in Orlando, Full Sail students and graduates carry as much prestige as a mail order degree would. I'm not exaggerating - it staggers me whenever I meet graduates from there how little they learn about anything that can actually help them in the real world.

They sure do know how to market themselves though. They have a bunch of expensive equipment there. But if you learn anything about filmmaking it should be this - having great tools is second to actual grey matter you have upstairs. Story, ingenuity, originality. All things you can't be taught; things you develop through experiences and personal growth.

Go somewhere else, spend a week or two getting trained on Avid, and then take the rest of your money and hire some people to help you make a movie. You will be way better off, if learning is what you're after.

Dustin

This is an old discussion topic, and it applies to basically all the artistic endeavors. "Do I need a degree in ART/ACTING/FILM/DESIGN etc. to get a job?" The short answer is always no. A degree will not "Get" you a job and is often not necessary. I myself droped out of RTV to work full time in the television industry. I have over twenty five years of professional experience in various aspects of the industry radio/tv/film/print.

Recently I returned to school to FINISH my degree. Why?

I wanted to be able to teach. And you DO need a degree to do that.

Steven Spielberg recently returned to finish his undergraduate because he had promised himself and his parents it was something he would do.

Chosing an art school is all about Faculty/assets/ and connections. DO they have teachers who have REAL WORLD experience on their resumes. Those teachers who are still active are better than those who's professional resumes are outdated/ Not only because their skills are more current, it is likely their CONTACTS are. And contacts are what are most valuable about attending school. It is a substitute environement for the business world. Are you working with top notch equipment, creating films that are garnering praise and notice? Will you be making connections that will benefit you and that you AND others?

Sorry if their is no easy answer, just lots of tough questions. Life is like that.

Good luck.

I called the school and talked to them for a while about it. They constantly kept stressing how it is a "real world" experience learning there. They also said that during the first year they train you with all of the tools. Then the six months after that they teach you all of the business aspects of the industry and not only do they teach you, but while you are still in the school they either help you get a job or if you are looking to start you're own business, they actually help you start it up while you are still in class learning.

So they possibly could have noticed that people were complaining about having no "real world" education and they could have recently changed their policies. Or it could be a big lie to sell me out. I'll just have to find out when I go there tomorrow.

Check out their web site at www.fullsail.com. They have lists of their students who are currently employed and working. Seems like they are working for some pretty big names too.

I don't know anything about Full Sail, or about film school either. But I wholeheartedly agree with Richard. I myself have an undergraduate degree in theatre and an MFA in scenery/lighting design. My daughter is finishing up her BFA in acting and musical theatre. I taught on the college level for 10 years. I have an experience somewhat parallel to Richard in that I spent two years in graduate school at Carnegie-Mellon but didn't finish my degree. Then TWENTY YEARS later this started to bug me. At the time I had a good job and was a tenured faculty member at the State University of New York. But this bit of unfinished business bothered me, so I completed my MFA degree (which was actually no big deal), and it was a great experience. It re-energized me creatively. Shortly afterwards I changed jobs, moved to another city and have never looked back. As a bonus, I now have the "papers" I need to get a better teaching job at a university, should I ever decide to go back into that line of work.

Clearly you don't NEED to have any sort of formal education in the arts; much of it is more like a craft which can be learned by the traditional "apprentice" system. Richard is so right when he says there's no easy answer. I think you need to do some soul-searching and research to decide if you're the sort of person who will benefit from a structured learning approach at a school.

It may be true that some people can just buy a good camera, a computer and some software, then make movies. But quite a lot of people would just churn out awful, self-indulgent dreck also. I think it comes down to whether you can be critical of yourself and learn from your mistakes. Can you look at your own work objectively? It's pretty tough. If you do something awful will you be able to admit it? Your friends will probably just be nice to you and not really say what they think. In a classroom environment though a good teacher will bring you back to reality and tell you what s/he really thinks about your work. Hopefully it will be a constructive process and you'll learn along the way.

There's also a lot to be said about the competetive aspect of producing work in a class with other people. You will learn from their successes and failures, and will be forced to meet deadlines and push yourself to do the best possible work. Frankly, it's very difficult to do this on your own, especially when you're young. The pressure of competition is a great way to bring out the best - or worst - in people. Remember, careers in the arts are not easy. It's highly competitive out there.

Now on the other hand, some people are just gifted. Give them a $200 camera and they will start making masterpieces. Is that you? We'd all like to think it is, but there are actually very few people like that in my experience.

There's a lot of good advice here already. Now it's up to you. Check out the different schools and see what you think. Richard is absolutely right about the faculty and their connections. Don't underestimate the value of this either. A recommendation from someone who is respected in the industry can really help jump start a career. On the other hand, you could just waste a lot of time and money at a mediocre school with lackluster faculty.

Best wishes as you set off on an exciting journey!

You'll get out of school what you put into it. If you go to Full Sail, party, drink, and have a good time, you'll be wasting somebodies money. If you work hard, put in extra effort and take it all very serious you'll be way ahead of the masses of people skipping school to make the great American movie.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : You'll get out of school what you put into it. If you go to Full Sail, party, drink, and have a good time, you'll be wasting somebodies money. If you work hard, put in extra effort and take it all very serious you'll be way ahead of the masses of people skipping school to make the great American movie. -->>>

haha. Yea I've already been warned about all the partiers that go to that school. But I lived that life, ended up with two felonies on my juvenille record, and now I'm done with all the partying, getting wasted and so forth. I'm plannnig on putting 120% of my effort into completing this course.

Dustin, it sounds like you're on the right track by nature of the fact that you are pursuing school.

In my opinion, I would consider a school that will make you feel comfortable. You will be living there, so make sure its where you want to spend 1-4 years of your life. You aren't far from Full Sail - go visit it and check to see if it will meet your needs.

May I suggest you also check out LA Film School? I did some work there back in 2000 - it seemed like a decent school. Also, it's in the heart of Hollywood...and that is just as if not more valuable than going to the school. Be social, be cool...and you will meet and get involved in projects that will lead down the road to success.

Remember, live a fullfilling personal life...and your career will follow.

Murph

Currently, I know lots of instructors in Vancouver who teach in a variety of schools. I've taught a course or two in 3D. Some of the schools have a bad rep, some have a good rep and I know my friends are good people. However, this is one thing I hear alot about as far as vocational schools go.

80 per cent of the enrollees have no business being in school.
- They got suckered by the school's marketing. "Get a job in 10 months!"
- They came in without the basics needed "Uh, what's this mouse do?"
- They were sponsored by the government and received a 'free pass' through the vetting process
- They are on a 'learning vacation' and want to snowboard most of the time in beautiful B.C. and then spend their time in class chatting with the other students
- They convinced their parents to pay for the education and realize quickly that it's actually work!
- They are sadly in bad circumstances outside of school and are always trying to juggle too many jobs or have bad relationships that are affecting their schoolwork
- They are social misfits who do not like other humans.
- They are blue-skiers who just like going to school and trying to learn things and then as soon as they graduate, go onto cooking school or tourism hospitality school or intensive yoga
- Older people who were turfed from their jobs because they weren't keeping up with younger people and were 'promised' their jobs back if only they would get retrained but actually just want their jobs back without the learning.

These majority of students are the result of a vetting process where the overriding criteria is their ability to pay the fee. The people doing the vetting don't really care if the prospective student is really suitable. That's what the tuition fee is supposed to do ahead of the interview!

Of the rest of the students, there will be a handful who are hard working, intelligent, sociable, quick-learners. These are the ones clamouring for more lab time, the ones who try and camp out in front of their computers, who are always pestering instructors for more, who challenge their instructors. These are the ones who produce more than is required, who race through the lame introduction courses, who finish the in-class assignments ahead of time and then actually help other students. These are the ones who use their knowledge to work on their own pet projects and, indeed, try and steal computer time to work on those projects.

These are people who, despite the quality of the program itself, will always find a way to push their own education as far as it will go. They may in fact find the program to be totally unsuitable and drop out so that they can find their education elsewhere.

Surprise! These are the same people who become excellent people to work with in a professional environment! But it is only a small percentage of people in each class.

Sure, there may be schools where the pre-admission process is so stringent that you only get these people.

I've found this in every classroom environment I've been in as a student and in the handful of situations where I've instructed. And, as I've said, this is what I understand from my friends who have instructed.

Hey Keith, that URL doesn't work. There's an extra <br%20/> at the end...

Never mind. It was just a cheap shot at Bush.

Hey Dustin,

When you do visit Fullsail, be prepared for a flashy show and tell and a vast marketing blitz. All their money goes into advertising, marketing and equipment at the school.

You'll hear "you get out of it what you put into it". This much is true, but my advice, if you want to do film editing, would be to look into local Avid/Final Cut workshops (I know Apple sponsors some around the Orlando area). If you already know Premiere, then transitioning to these programs will be easy.

I graduated from Fullsail in 2001 and have no regrets. It was a LOT of money...I'm still paying for it actually...but I went for computer animation and there was really no better place to jump right into Maya then FS. It was a great experience and I walked out with Valedictorian and Perfect Attendance. The best thing about the school is the people you meet. The opportunity to network is great, the placement is sub-par. You'll be doing virtually all of your own job hunting.

I won't clog up this thread anymore with my opinions. I just wanted to post up some of my thoughts in case anyone else searches on the topic of Fullsail.

Dustin, if you'd like to speak to me more at length or have specific questions, feel free to e-mail me. The marketing team at FS is top-notch, but you probably won't hear from your "recruiter" after you get in. : )

Okay I made the drive out there today to check it out. It was excellent. There is too much to type about it. All I can say is it looks like a really really good experience.

Financially I think it shouldn't be too bad. Financial Aid is judged by my parents salary the prior year and they made squat. Also, my aunt is really pushing me to go to school and she has money out the wazzoo so she said she is going to help out as much as she can. I can get a student loan for any other expenses.

I'm really excited about going now. Before I showed up I thought I was only going to be taught how to use the equipment and such. But I then realize that they teach all the aspects of film making. And their internship programs seem to be great too. They said that they will help me find a job and anytime in the future I can come back to them for help finding jobs as well. They also told me that since technology changes so much, I can come back anytime, however many times I want, and retake the film degree program again for free.

Dispite all of the bad stories I have heard about this school, I believe this will be an excellent learning experience nonetheless and seems like alot of fun. After all, I've heard lots of good stories about it as well.

Well thanks alot everyone for putting in your two cents. I really appreciate it!

I honestly thought about going down to fullsail...i used to lived a few blocks away at the end of university blvd. at the time i was going to UCF for film (only went a couple years, partied too much and quit).
Fullsail is a pretty cool school, but overall it is a business school. it really depends on what you want to do with your career. If you go someplace like UCF, which does have a film program, you get a more rounded education (which can seem pretty boring at times).
If you are kinda unsure about what you want to do, why not goto the community college that is right up there inbetween UCF and fullsail for a couple years (forgot the name). hey have a bunch of film stuff there, i know that when i was at UCF those guys did the BLair Witch movie and they went to the CC and then UCF, but it much cheaper and lets you explore what you want.
The other people on here that recommended jsut taking training for avid/FCP may be right, you would probably learn more about the technicalities of editing from something like that.

It really depends on how you do it all...like jeff said earlier - its what you put into it.

Hey Trey,

The name of the school is Valencia Community College. Not a bad idea either. I can see going to Fullsail to learn game design, recording arts and computer animation. Despite the grandeur of learning 35mm at Fullsail, if one wanted to do editing or digital media I don't know if I'd recommend the investment at this point in time...especially since tuition keeps going up and up.

But hey, I got a fantastic education out of it and it was an opportunity to learn and grow, and I think Dustin will have a great time.

Something to consider... Full Sail is NOT an accredited school. What ever degree they give you is not the same as one from UCF or even Valencia CC (associates). I took my son up there a few years back. I was not impressed with the film program,
but the animation and audio recording/mixing programs were pretty good. Though if you check around there are week long and 2 week long seminars on pro-tools that will cost you a lot less.

When it comes time to actully use the film camera, you have to earn the right to do so, competing with others for only a couple of cameras. You can use digital if you want, but why if you are paying that much. You will learn other aspecs of film making, like production design and script, plus a bunch of other jobs related to making a movie.


BTW.. the film program at UCF has over a 1 year waiting period last time I checked. Maybe it's better now.

IF you are interested...
FAU in Boca is ramping up their communication/media studies department. And they are offering post graduate classes as well.

My son just graduated with his BA in communications with a double major in film and broadcast/media studies. They have both pratcial and theoretical courses. They also encourage a lot of internet based study. The have a pretty good equipment to student ratio. With heavy emphasis on the latest Mac/FCP and/or full blown AVID stations.
The only problem is they are currently all digital as far the the film making program goes. You might want to check to see if that is changing.

Another thing, if you are worried about your grades..you can take your first two years at Palm Beach CC and have an excellent chance of getting in to FAU.



Good Luck

Hey Joe,

Actually, it is accredited. The AS I got for comp anim will hold water legally, but in all honesty I went to Fullsail more for the quick experience and extensive animation program, and less for the degree. They do also offer bachelor degrees now.

Having said that though, I agree with the rest of your post. Although I cannot speak for those schools, I think you bring up some good points about Fullsail's film program and offer some good advice.

I stand by what I said before: recording arts, game design and computer animation are pretty top notch programs at Fullsail. Film and digital media are over-over-overcrowded and I often wonder why some don't consider either other schools or just a more concentrated workshop.

The trouble that I see with programs like FS is that you don't spend that much time actually using the programs. While call it hands on, they don't have an NLE station and camera for each student. You'd be better off buying a decent camera, fast computer, plenty of HD space, and taking workshops for the software if you learn that way. Or be like me and teach yourself ;)

Well I talked to some of the students there and they said they really liked it and that all get to use the equipment. Either way...this is my chance to move out of my parents house. And it seems like alot of fun too.

Sorry to dig up old topics, I'm new and decided to do a search for Full Sail so I didn't waste space posting a new thread,



I WAS going to go to Full Sail. That was my goal. I had everything planned out, I even went to a Behind the Scenes Tour (the damn trip cost me $600!).


They put on a HUGE show. I was impressed with the equipment, but I still had a bad feeling about the school. It seemed like they wanted to do a huge show to try and pull people in.

Nevertheless I still figured this was the place to go to get into the industry, and I still wanted to get in.

That was until last night. My parents were worried I'd f**k myself over getting a $40,000 loan and they wanted to do some research to make sure I wasn't gonna screw up my life going there.

The information my dad found last night pretty much made me change my mind. Yeah, I was extremely bummed out because I didn't think I had any other way of getting into the business. I remember a friend of mine who owns a production company, to go out and buy equipment, search the internet, read and learn on my own (Oh and Kevin, if you read this, I still need to talk to you)

Searching around more on the internet last night I discovred L.A. Film School (which someone mentioned briefly early on in this thread). I requested information which is on it's way and it looks like this is the place I am going to go.

I have business in Hollywood that requires me travelling there once a month and L.A. Film School looks like the place for me.

Anyone that is interested can check it out at: www.lafilm.com

I know that some people disagree with going to a school but it feels like something I need to do for myself.

(BTW, L.A. Film is much cheaper then FS)


Take care,

Chris

I went to neither lafilm, nor fullsail, all of the experience I got was working as an intern (lowpay) and then moving up as I learned more, in addition any money that I saved by not going to film schoolwent to camera's and equipment for shorts. The people that I have met that went to fullsail, said as they were going through it that it was really just a money maker, each moneht they accepted new students to replace the ones that had graduated the moneht before, one guy in particular finished up fullsail had no job to show for it then went on to be a PA in NC on dawsons creek. His review of fullsail wasn't glowing and it seemed to him that anything he wanted to do could have been done simply by going out and working in the field.
The LA FIlmschool people that I met were really obnoxious and honestly not the most learned people I've ever met. The company that I work for now does a little bit of business with them and I just wonder how much more experience one could get by taking 40 grand spending it on rent and working for free for a couple of years (note that if you are in anyway compatent you will be working for free for a couple of gigs then you'll begint o get paid.) I'm not saying that film school is bad, I'm saying that these film schools (oh and the newyork film academy as well-MANY stories out of that place) seem to be more interested in churning out people so that can bring in more and make more money, but hey maybe that's all schools. I think that if you really don't knwo what you want to do in the biz and you want experience covering everything, then heck drop 40k and go to school work your butt off and make connections and while you're at it figure out what you want to do. But if you do KNow where you want to go (directing DPing, editing) you need to follow a more specialized route.