<<<-- Originally posted by Alessandro Machi : I don't see the two formats in conflict with each other. I do see a bit of over exuberance on the part of digital users who never comprehended or got a chance to appreciate the value of INSTANT color correction knobs and buttons both on betacam sp video decks and digital switchers such as the MX-50.

I'm not talking about digital "effects", I'm talking about making a picture look as good as possible and do it in a very fast manner.

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There is nothing limiting color correction to analog signals.
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I know that Final Cut Pro-4 has taken huge strides in the area of color correction but I'm not convinced it is as fast as using knobs and buttons.

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Most NLEs have color correction available and, like audio amplitude controls, can be set for discrete sections of video or the entire timeline. This color correction on real-time systems is in real time—no rendering needed—and can be effected on the video signal as a whole or only on highlights, or mid-tones, or shadows. There are few analog systems that accomplish that.

Furthermore, although some NLEs can do it all in real-time, the operator has the luxury of determining the changes at any speed they wish.

So if you wish, you can Color Time the entire timeline just as they do with Hollywood films.
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Wouldn't it be something if NLE systems actually created an interface keyboard that allowed instant correction of the NLE image without having to do any mouse clicking. -->>>

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I think that would be a step backward ONLY IN THIS SENSE:

A mouse is a generic tool that can be used to adjust or select anything presented in a soft menu. It is kind of the Crescent-Wrench of user interfaces.

Once you start creating keys and knobs to do the job, you increase the expense and frequently limit the scope of the interface. A mouse has no such limitations as long as one can change the on-screen menus.

That said, I do like having some specialized controls. The Contour Shuttle-Pro is an example.

Bankim, discussion and disagreements are quite good, frequently adding to the knowledge of the participants, and may benefit folks who just read the threads and don't participate.

Ri8 u r Mike !

I do agree that the time line color correction is an excellent tool. So if you shoot an event that has non-changing visuals, or your camera position remains static, or your camera was off in color in a similar manner all the way through, the NLE system is terrific for fixing and changing the color for each camera literally in an instant.

However, for "two-camera shoots" where the cameras are stationary, I get amazingly good results by using my MX-50 and the built in clip and set-up level with additional color wheel adjustment.

My criticism of NLE color adjusting is directly related to shoots where the camera person is running and gunning and virtually every shot is from a new angle and position.

I can adjust those shots faster with knobs and buttons than on an NLE system. The White elephant in the room has less to do with whether digital is better than analog and more to do with how much the editor has to "pee" on the cinematographers work so they can take credit for it.

I prefer to put the majority of my energy into making the shot look the best it can look rather than adding all kinds of effects so that I can remind everyone how much "better" the video is because of post production techniques.

Now, in the name of broadcast and ratings purposes, peeing on the cinematographers work is essential for a television shows survival, and I stay out of that arena.

<<<-- Originally posted by Alessandro Machi :

I prefer to put the majority of my energy into making the shot look the best it can look rather than adding all kinds of effects so that I can remind everyone how much "better" the video is because of post production techniques.
-->>>

As does everyone. But it isn't always possible in real world situations.

And there are needs of a production that cannot be met during the shoot and if they were, would lock in an effect or color balance that later may not work. I speak of, for example, making a scene slightly cold and then tapering off to a warm appearance as the mood transitions.

And and, if you are making changes in the VTRs in the control room during post, how is that any different from doing it in the editing program?

My preference is to always make the best and most neutral footage possible because that then allows choices when editing. That is, I get to change my mind without having to reshoot the footage. I can also re-purpose the video without having to accept prior choices.

Even Hollywood is starting to make a large number of their movies by using Digital Intermediaries to edit off-line and then using the EDL to direct the cutting and processing of the master film. If it weren't more cost-effective and, more importantly, didn't generate better results, they wouldn't do it.

There are differences in the way shots are color corrected. What I have found to be the most effective way of all is to lay down the shot onto the edit master.

I then color correct my source tape footage and I "preview" the identical edit over the already laid down version of the shot. As I preview the shot I hit video insert on and off and the result is a completely in sync method for instantaneously comparing what exists with a new possibility.

Keep in mind the actual color correction that includes clip, set-up, hue, color intensity and brightness all takes between 10-20 seconds.

I totally agree with you about making the footage "neutral". It's scary because sometimes the client expects "more" yet you know that it's best to not lose choices later by over committing on a certain look now.

<<<-- Originally posted by Alessandro Machi : There are differences in the way shots are color corrected. What I have found to be the most effective way of all is to lay down the shot onto the edit master. -->>>

Ah, you are using a Linear Editing System. Now I understand.

I periodically sit in on Final Cut Pro Classes, so I also understand where FCP is at.

This thread is way off topic and needs to be brought back to the original topic of SP vs. SX. New topics need a new thread. Thanks for your understanding and assistance.

Phew.....Thanks GOD ! there is someone watching these ALALOGUies fighting out a survival against the MIGHT CALLED DIGITAL BRIGADE.

Even i was feelig te same of these guys wasting this thread by flushing or Analogue frustrtions...

Well i hope the saga continues in some new thread...May analogue v/s DIGITAL BRIGADE !!!


:o)

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : This thread is way off topic and needs to be brought back to the original topic of SP vs. SX. New topics need a new thread. Thanks for your understanding and assistance. -->>>

Since very few people probably own both BetaCam SP and SX, all we can do is tout the benefits and drawbacks of the system we own or have owned.