Re: What camcorder would you buy?
 

It is my understanding that bit rate is the amount of data recorded by the camera per second. Mbps = (millions of bits per second) and that the more data your gathering the better quality image. I would think that the images would be softer (insert metaphor - fuzzy, out of focus) with lower bit rates. If not then why have the higher bit rates in the first place? Yes, youtube compression I got it. Yes, many people auto shoot. I get it. But what am I supposed to compare stuff to? There is no local store that carries and higher end camcorders within 300 miles of here. Unfortunately I have to use the tools at my disposal.

"I think you still have to high expectations of what a external recorder can do and it won't magically turn a dslr in a broadcast capable camera, it's just one part of a chain that may or may not be important." Yeah I get that too but don't the large full frame sensors crush the 1/3" and 1/2" sensors on the $6000 camcorders in image quality?

"I can make my NX5U look out of focus too by closing down the iris more than F5.6. With 1/3" sensor they need to be, in my experience, no more closed than F5.6, F4 is better and ND needs to be used to stay within this limit." Interesting to learn. On a DSLR lenses seem to show only slight softness usually wide open and get sharper down a stop or two. Nothing like the stuff I have seen. It's like where are my glasses? Oh, I am wearing them.

"to be honest I do have a feeling you are not sure yet yourself what you exactly are planning to do." Actually I do but the offerings are not fitting my requirements. Using a DSLR on rig is not working for recording videos of clients on stage and its not going to work for traveling without creating a lot of extra work. I will also be doing documentary stuff in which I will have people around to help with the shoot. This means load up the vehicles and go. So a cinema camera works. Interviews can go either way. So I am trying to find a larger sensor camera with a long reach. The sensor size dramatically reduces my choices. If I choose a cinema style camera I am back to lenses. I am stuck in the middle right now and getting pissed off since there aren't any offerings other than the DVX200 (only 13x zoom). I'm semi-retired and back in school full time... If I commit $5K to a camera that is going to be it for a while. Maybe I just answered my own question. I'll just buy the one I think I'll use the most and that is most suitable for that task. (Shrug) I'll make something work.

Edit: Sorry for the attitude. I just spent my second 12 hour day working on geospacial analysis problems and I am burnt. I am going to stop worry about this until I have cash in hand. Maybe I'll be back in a month or so.

Re: What camcorder would you buy?
 

Hey, don't apologize for an attitude, it's just a healthy discussion :) First to make discussion a bit easier you have to start using quotes when you are using someone else response to comment on, just type [ quote ] at the start and [ /quote ] at the end of whatever you want to enclose (without the empty space between the brackets but I had to do that now to show what you need to write) so that it looks like what I did below

It's always difficult to choose a camera, especially if you are not able get a hold of one to try or being able to get raw footage shot by someone who knows what he is doing but I was talking more about camera specification based on client expectations. Take my work as example, I do weddings and by now I know exactly what my camera's should be able to do.

Like, do you need xlr, internal nd, motorized zoomlens, long lens reach, live streaming, codec options, shallow dof, high iso performance, control from outside the camera instead of via a software menu, etc, etc. I could make a very long list of camera functions based on my own and my client needs and once that is done you easily could cross reference a wide selection of camera's where you eventually end up with a few camera's that meet both requirements. Then you can see which one fits your budget.

Like I said before, everyones needs are different so asking who is using which camera's will give you many choices and at the end you still won't know what will work for you.

Absolutely not, large sensor size does not automatically mean superior image quality, just take a 5D2 as example, there are many much smaller sensor camera's available these days that would "crush" a 5d2. There is much more behind good image quality then sensor size alone. With Dslr's those sensors are sometimes not optimized for videoshooting but more for photography so there is more to consider when buying a camera.

Re: What camcorder would you buy?
 

Higher bitrates tend to mean greater scope for editing rather than out of focus shots. Unless the shot is excessively detailed like a vast field of flowers, generally a low bitrate even of 17mbps will give you a sharp image. True there maybe jagged lines if you pixel peep, compression artifacts, banding maybe and poorer colour, but its only when you try to grade the footage, the image falls apart.

Poor focus could be down as others have said, to diffraction, excessive noise in low light scenes or poor focusing on the operator. There is another cause. I own a Panasonic AF101a; on buying it I consulted several websites for recommended settings. The AF101a has a plethora of custom settings that dictate the look of the video as do most Professional cameras. Those settings I applied resulted in a very soft looking image that to my eyes looked mushy. No amount of sharpening could restore the lack of detail.

Now maybe as I was capturing via AVCHD rather than say a Prores codec via an external recorder, those settings I used were not intended for internal recording. However what was clear to me was that having a professional camera, I needed to be clued up on what this camera could offer and what each setting did to the image before customising the settings.

My best suggestion is that in attending the CES in January, that you try various cameras and see which one works best for you. Bring along some cards, and if allowed, record some footage and compare before committing. As you say its a big purchase. No one here can make the choice for you.

Re: What camcorder would you buy?
 

Low bit rates don't necessarily make things look softer. Often it makes things look sharper! (...but in a negative way.)

For instance, imaging filming cobblestones. Each stone has a soft, convex profile with a sharp oval edge. If you lose focus, the edges blur. But if the image in in focus and you starve the bit rate, the first thing you're likely to lose is the smooth profile. Instead, you'll get harsh, contour lines due to losing subtle shades of gray. As you keep starving the rate, the oval stone edges turn into rectangular shapes. It's more of a case of adding noise and error, rather than losing sharpness. It's more like losing the accuracy of the edges and color values rather than just blurring the edges.

Re: What camcorder would you buy?
 

Just for general interest (I realise this is quite an old thread) - I see the Beeb are using iPhone 6 footage on their news website now, shown in the clip below, which is well wide of their white paper specs.

New job 'helped me heal my broken heart' - BBC News

Re: What camcorder would you buy?
 

IPhones do get used as backups or major news materiel caught at the time by a member of the public. They do get used by web sites, however, they do have disadvantages such as variable frame rates which make this less than ideal for post. If you're planning to shoot broadcast news professionally as a cameraperson, or videojournalist you need to use camera that meets the appropriate Tier 2J , which are less demanding than for Teir2L, although the latter can be preferred.

"EBU

Tier 2 Journalism cameras are fundamentally the same as Tier2L however there is a relaxation of
some of the criteria to take account of the balance between speed to air and quality that News
programmes may have to make."

You don't need to buy a new camera, a suitable used camera, in good condition, will meet the requirements for news.

So. if a major news event happens around you and you capture some unique footage, the broadcasters will be interested in your phone footage.

Re: What camcorder would you buy?
 

Thanks, for clarifying that Brian. I have no vested interest in using an iPhone in this context, just thought it interesting.