Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

My son (aged 13) is really into skateboarding...I mean obsessed.

He showed me some videos he and his friends produced with their iPods and iMovie and I was very impressed. He's now hankering for a better camera and tells me that the Sony VX1000 with Century Optics fisheye lens is 'the one'. Somewhat skeptical, I did a little research to discover that the VX1000 was indeed revered as 'king of the skateboard camcorders' back in the day and is still used by pro's, as well as enthusiasts who esteem it's iconic value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_DCR-VX1000

Other DV camcorders from that period, having a similar form factor (i.e. the integrated top handle) are also highly regarded - including the VX2100 and Canon GL1/GL2.

I explained to him the practicalities of working with older tape based DV technology, but he's not deterred. He reminded me that I used to have a DV camcorder and pointed out an old Dell (Pentium IV) desktop gathering dust in the basement (last used for playing games on Linux) that we could use - 'we' inferring that I would help him get set-up, which of course I would enjoy. Amazing the emotional intelligence and fortitude of teenagers when it comes to leisure pursuits versus studies ! Caught between a rock and hard place I said I'd look into it.

Checking going prices for 'good condition/used' on EBay it's clear that I could easily be looking at upwards of $US 800 for a GL1/GL2 and decent fisheye lens, and even more for an VX1000/2100. When my son inquired of a semi-pro who has a VX1000/Century Optics combo how much he could sell it for - $CAN 1700 ($US 1350). So I think he's come to terms with the cost and that it might be better to start with a more manageable 'entry level' set-up. But it has to be one with 'community credibility' - in short he needs to show at up the skate-park/centres and have other experienced skaters say 'good camera'. We all know that's important.

I thought maybe a used Panasonic GS320 with Kenko 0.43 fisheye and Cam-Caddie handle (or similar), which I could possibly put together for around $150-200, and he was encouraged when I pointed to some YouTube videos validating this as a good budget set-up, several years back at least. Can't help feeling though that he'd be better off with a card-based camera - say an older generation Canon/Sony AVCHD model. Problem there is overcoming a perceived notion in skateboarding circles that 'AVCHD camcorders suck' and that DV/HDV is still the name of the game. He's definitely not interested in a GoPro or similar, nor a DSLR. I regret now selling my old HV30 some years back - but who knew ?

I would welcome suggestions from any forum members who are up on skateboarding videography.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

I had a vx1000 and a vx2100 but no way I'd pay 800 or more now, for a vx1000 I'd spend max 100 and for a vx2100/GL2 max 300.

If you can find a used sony cx730 (I still have and use 2 of them) then the boss stabilisation would be one of the best you will find in it's class and great for handheld work, they are also pretty light sensitive, have nice balanced colors and use sd cards with a easy to handle codec. I would talk your son out of tape based camera's, I"m pretty sure he"ll regret getting a 720x476 sd camera, IQ is just poor compared to todays HD and 4K camera's if he plans to publish his videos on youtube.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

I don't get why anyone would want SD recording in an HD world...and on tape to boot! I really, really do not miss "capturing" tapes before editing, or the tape dropouts. But perhaps there is a certain aesthetic to the image captured....

But anyway, I did own a VX-1000 that was later replaced by 3 of the newer VX-2000 models. If you must go the "old school" MiniDV route, look for a VX-2000 or VX-2100, having a similar form-factor of the VX-1000 but with a better image (especially in low light), and the used camera will be a few years "newer".

VX-2000 offers 48k 16-bit audio versus 32k 12-bit on VX-1000, adds optical image stabilization and...LOOKS COOLER! And the VX-2100 looks a bit better yet, slight color change towards more light gray than silver.

Sony also marketed pro versions of those cameras, called the PD-150 and PD-170, same body style but having XLR audio and shotgun mic mount on the body, and they are dark gray versus silver.

Thanks

Jeff

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

Thanks Noa.

That would be including a fish-eye lens. I could maybe get lucky in an EBay auction ('watching' a couple of listings just now), but current trend for a (NTSC model) GL1 (in good condition/standard accessories incl.) is in the $CAN 150 - 350 range (plus shipping/duties for US import). And for the VX1000, anywhere between $CAN 400 - 900. Surprising, I know.


I've been on the look out for one (or a 760) myself, as a back-up and for shared family use, for those very reasons - but they are very hard to come by.

I'm trying to, but like I said, any alternative needs to have some credibility in skateboarding circles. That's a big-deal.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

That's a large part of it Jeff - the 'retro' look. Plus that particular combination of VX1000/Century Optics fish-eye is famed for the iconic close-up angles and sense of dimension it achieves, in experienced hands that is. I guess you need to need to be a skateboader to fully appreciate that dynamic.

As that Wiki states "Today the VX1000 is used among cult skateboarding filmmakers and has become one of the strongest symbols of street skateboarding culture since it has featured in iconic videos over two decades"

I guess I could get him a fisheye lens for his iPOD but I think that's only going to buy a little time.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

It amazes me that the antique VX1000 still carries street cred... that's astonishing.

Ooooooold skool. That must be the appeal.

I was going to suggest a miniature 360 video / panorama cam like the Insta360 ONE (about $300) because I thought 360 video was the *thing* for skateboarders these days. But what do I know, I'm way over 40.


But I don't know if selfie sticks or helmet cams are frowned on in that world or not.

I mean, have you showed him what standard def video looks like on YouTube? And tape... holy cow... gotta be played back in real time to get it into the computer... who does that? These days.

No action cams, eh? I thought those were where it's at. I must be over the hill.

I can't really recommend the DV camcorder route, but you know -- we've got a forum for that!

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

Thanks Chris.

Apparently these are the reasons why....



Warning: High anality/drone-on factor. Have a pot of strong coffee to hand.

It was/is that particular combination of VX1000 and Century Optics MK1 fisheye that produced the iconic look.

I get the impression that being filmed by another skilled skateboarder who can follow and capture the moves at *sick* angles is where it's at. And my son definitely has that aspiration.

He watches them all them time and can instantly identify a video recorded on a VX1000. Shame I didn't hold onto my old Canon HV30. Whether he would use it or not, I could at least demonstrate what is involved.

I just posted here for visibility Chris - shows the level of desperation !

Best option I think might be a past-generation Canon AVCHD model (HF-S, HF-M series) with compatible fisheye lens and Camcaddie-like grip to get him started. I could probably come up with a 'DV look' grade that he or I could slap on the finished video with a LUT to give it that retro feel. There's a fish-eye (Death Lens) for iPhones that runs with an app that has a 'VX1000 look' option, but he's not interested.


On the other hand it will be 'yard sale' season here in a couple of weeks and you never know what that might turn-up.

Cheers.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

Bryan, you might also want to consider the Canon HF R800 as it is available as a factory refurb for US$129:

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...ck-refurbished

Just add a couple of high-capacity batts and a 43mm WA. Not very expensive, a one-year warranty, and will probably get the job done...

(thanks for the YT vids on the VX1k popularity!)

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

Thanks Chris,

Yes, I'd been thinking about an HF-R800 (or 700/600) too.

The (latter generation) HF-S series AVCHD cams were higher IQ, but I think recording in mp4 would be more convenient for him especially if he wants to edit with iMovie on his iPOD (school iPAD or Mum's iMAC.....I'm the only one with a PC). Plus there's 1080/60p if he wants it. WiFi would be nice for direct upload to iPOD but that's only available on the sister HF-R80/82 models - not such a big deal though.

Only thing I wondered is that he might be put off by the small size - I checked one out in a local store today, and it is tiny. Still it has a tripod mount for attaching to a Cam-Caddie/grip, and (as you indicated) a 43mm filter thread for lens attachment. It does have an external mic jack, but no shoe mount. If he ever wanted to use an external mic though (I have an old Sony that would do) he could mount it on the grip. I think that would make a tidy little rig.

Cheers.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

I agree. I guess you can't always predict these things but it's probably similar to vinyl. Plus skateboarding tends to have that punk/anti-establishment mantra.

I would think they're available cheap on ebay. I have a VX2000 still & tried selling it a year ago, no bids. Didn't bother relisting it but maybe I'll hang onto it a bit to see where the market value of them goes.


They really were great cameras.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

Sell it to Bryan! That one is even better then the vx1000

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

That is an unfortunate and somewhat ignorant stereotype. Yes there is hard-core 'street' sub-culture who still foster that life style and reputation, but skateboarding as a sporting activity is very different these days. It will in fact debut in the 2020 Summer Olympics.

Do you really think we would encourage our son in pursuing this activity if we thought it would lead to rebellion and delinquency ? A punk he is definitely not, and if it stimulates a parallel interest in sports videography, who knows where that could lead.

No thanks.

Maybe post it on a skateboarding forum ?

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

Why not? Both the vx1000 and it's successor the vx2000 where popular camera's amongst the skateboarding community.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

Wow, I think you're taking it a bit too literally. It was more of a term of endearment. While other teens might want 4k, XBox 360, the newest Call of Duty, and a iPhone X, Kanye & Drake, Skateboarders tend to want the bare essentials, there's a certain cool factor in having a clamshell flip phone, Nintendo 1990 w/Super Mario, cassette tapes of Black Flag & Minor Threat etc.

I didn't call them drug addicts or losers.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

....hardly conveys a sentiment of endearment and most definitely portrays skateboarders as a community of miscreant losers - a perception that I don't think would be appreciated by the vast majority of people involved in the sport today. The emergence of well designed and properly supervised facilities and centers has done a lot to dispel that image and to attract a new generation of upbeat youngsters who enjoy it for the exhilarating and highly athletic sport that it is. My only concern as a parent is the potential for injury when you see the level of acrobatics that these kids aspire to and achieve. Anyhow, no bother.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

I think the forum might need a rule about always assuming the best intentions of others, but I wouldn't know how to enforce it. I don't think David meant anything negative with what he said. Let's please move forward; it's a great discussion topic. I'm glad any early-generation DV camcorder is still being held in high regard by any particular niche today, no matter their age or what they do. More power to 'em!

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

Nothing more to discuss really.

I'll likely go with the Canon HF-R800 (or 700/600) option. Haven't told my son yet, but I went to a local skate-park with him on the weekend and shot some footage on my HF-G30 of him and some older, more experienced skaters and skooter riders doing tricks. Very polite and obliging - one even remarked 'nice camera' which had my son beaming. Showed him the edit later with several grade options that I thought I might work, including a thrown together 'DV look' (modded 'VHS look' grade with some toned down chroma bleed/fringing) and a pseudo-fisheye distorted version. He was impressed, apart from the fish-eye look and suggested I get a proper lens. I have no interest in doing so, but it gave an indication that he might be content with an HF-R series as the camcorder.

I think his 'thing' about the VX1000 with Century Optics fisheye was largely influenced by a semi-pro/trainer at a skateboard centre in Montreal who has that combo. If it was just the camcorder I might have been tempted to buy one (or V2100, GL1/2) used, but the added cost of a decent 58mm fisheye makes it unrealistic for such dedicated a use. Plus I'd be stuck with selling it had it proved to be a passing fad.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions anyway.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

It looks to me that whatever camera you or we will be suggesting that eventually it will be skateboarding community reaction that will decide if it's ok to use as it seems more important to have the "right" camera to be accepted in the group.
If they are such a polite and obliging group like you said they will not judge your son based on the camera he is using, the main problem with such old camera's is to find spare parts to have them fixed if something would stop working.
If funds would allow another option could be to get something like a second hand panasonic gx80 with a laowa 7,5mm f2 or a samyang 7,5mm fisheye lens lens and a smallrig cage with a handle or even just a gopro.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

Which is precisely what I'd been trying to get across to him - only reason I mentioned the guy remarking 'nice camera' was that I could sense my son took that as 'approval', when really the guy was just being friendly and they were happy to be filmed - which in turn gave them a sense of pride at being considered worth filming.

Yes, that's another factor. Perhaps not surprising that there are usually more listings for 'For Parts Only' VX1000/2100's on EBay than for 'in good working condition'. Most likely being sold by skateboarders.

Thanks for that suggestion, I'll look into it. I must say I would have thought something like a cube-cage would be more versatile than a Cam-Caddie 'Scorpion' type grip. I've seen a few skateboard videos (suddenly I'm interested in them) where that arrangement was being used with 'DSLR's and that would probably apply to small camcorders like the Canon HF-R's also. The notion of using a 'Cam-Caddie' largely arose from the need to come up with an arrangement that mimicked the form factor of the VX1000 (and similar) with the integrated top-handle. That was a big deal when this first came up.

Not so, whilst it's true I had hoped there might be forum members who could suggest alternatives from personal experience in skateboarding filming or similar close-up action sports....

....I was open to all suggestions and appreciate those that were given. Chris's suggestion about an HF-R700 (or similar model) helped to crystallize some thoughts I'd had in that direction and I will certainly look at the GX80 also; I hadn't really considered 'DSLR/MFT' options largely because I had the notion that they would not be as suitable as a video camera in this context, given the need for fast auto-focus and fluid motion characteristics. Maybe I'm wrong.

I suppose I could have made enquiries on a skateboarding forum (and might still do) but had some trepidation that I would be bombarded with biased perspectives in a 'cultural domain' that I was not familiar and comfortable with.

Thanks anyway.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

Canon's Dual-Pixel AF technology in the EOS 70D, 80D and similar DSLRs is actually pretty fast, but I just don't see that type of camera form factor being ideal for skateboarding. No doubt it's been done a lot, but it's not ideal. A small, inexpensive HD camcorder with a WA is the better way to go, so I think you're on the right track.

Re: Budget Camcorder/Fish Eye Combo for Skateboarding Video
 

I’ve had VX700 , VX1000 and PD150 back in the day and all were good cameras .

For a while I moved on to a couple of JVC GY-DV500 then a SONY DSR-500 before moving on to HD .

These days , I still use tape and have a Sony HVR-V1e and JVC GY-HD251e .

If the skateboarders like the VX-1000 , they would probably like the HVR-V1 which is pretty much the HDV successor to the VX-1000 and shares the form factor and workflow , besides offering both 1080i and 1080p , although for fast moving action they probably don’t want to shoot progressive .

I think part of the reason for the high prices is scarcity since there won’t be so very many left in good working order now . With the later HDV cameras , like the V1 or the Z1 perhaps relatively commonplace , I wonder if prices might actually be cheaper ?