Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Oh okay, but so far when I have been using my fly-by-wire lenses, I was putting the markings on the lens myself with a grease pencil. So even though there are no markings on their originally, can't you still focus with a fly-by-wire as long as you make the markings yourself, and make sure to hit them, rather than overturn the ring at any point?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

I can't comment on the lenses you've using, but that tends not to be consistent on the lens I've used.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Oh okay, how is it not consistent?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

The care required meant it wasn't practical on the rough and tumble of a professional shoot, when changes can quickly happen. Even short throw manual focus rings can cause problems when the markings are close together.

The distances are usually measured with a tape by the camera assistant.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Oh okay, I see, it's just I thought we could measure with tape an assistant with a fly-by-wire, the same way as mechanical focus. I thought that maybe by not having to turn the ring as far, with the markings closer together, was a good thing, cause then I can pull focus faster I thought.

Is a short throw ring and a fly-by-wire ring, the same thing when say 'short throw'?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

A short throw focus ring is one that is commonly found on stills lens and video zoom lenses. With these lenses the scale is often a 1/3 rotation, intended to be used by the camera operator, cine scales are much longer, perhaps 300 degrees.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Oh okay, so on still lenses, is the short throw pretty much the same distance on a mechanical ring, as oppose to fly-by-wire?

If so though, how does that make mechanical rings better on still lenses, if the distance on fly-by-wires are the same?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

This explains:

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks, I watched that video before :).

The one thing they mention is that sometimes when you try to make marks on the lens and focus that it goes from macro to infinity. I haven't experienced that so far, but maybe.

So the reason fly-by-wire sucks is because there is no markings on the lenses. But when I checked out mechanical focus ring lenses at the camera store, there were no marking on those either, and you still have to make them with a grease pencil.

If they are not cine lenes, but still DSLR lenses, where you have to make the markings yourself, are they still worth buying over fly-by-wire still?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

I think some important things got missed.

The two types of lenses "feel" different, literally the way it feels as you turn the ring on one vs the other. Some people can feel the focus pull, probably easier to do that on a mechanical.

More importantly, what we mean when we talk about consistency is the the lens returning to the same focus point every time you return to a given mark. Cine lenses are the best at this, mechanical still lenses a little crappier perhaps, and fly by wire the crappiest.

So you make your mark on the lens for an talent end mark that's at 8 feet from the lens, or whatever. On a mechanical focus lens you SHOULD be sharp every time you hit that mark (if your actor hits their mark), on a fly by wire...who knows? That's the big difference. If you're willing to live with that, cool. Perhaps you stay with fly-by-wire and just check playback after each take unless you have a sharp/large enough monitor that you can tell if/when you nail it.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks, I thought maybe on the fly-by-wire lenses that I needed more practice and I was the problem to get it extremely accurate, but perhaps it's the lenses then.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

If you want to make a career out of this get the right equipment and learn the right methods. That's why I suggested Rokinon. It's not that I think they're great lenses but they're the right tool for the job and something you can afford. All you need to make a movie is a wide, medium, and telephoto prime. Heck some movies have been made with just one prime! You've spent an entire month talking about crash zooms maybe it is time to buy a telephoto lens, an 85mm or maybe 135mm for those closeups and borrow the other focal lengths from your friends.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks but I need at least a 300mm lens for the next project cause I want to some shots that require a longer length than 135mm. Basically I want to move the camera while following the actors as they are running during chase scenes, and I cannot follow them for as long amount of time with a 135mm before they start to get further away. With the 300mm, I can track them and move the camera with them longer.

I also want a 300 for other shots, such as a close up of an actor's face, and he is pointing his gun towards the camera, and the gun looks really close to the face. I can't get that shot with a 135mm on my zoom lens.

Or another shot I want are over the shoulder shots, where you can make the person look really close to the other person, even though they are sitting an entire table length apart.

So for those shots I would like a 300mm cause 135mm will not quite be enough. So is there any company that makes a 300mm lens, like a Rokinon one, where it's easier to pull focus and operate for a good price, like Rokinon?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

I worked on some commercials that used a 25mm to 250mm zoom at the long end and you needed a very large room in order to get far enough back.

I'd check out some older lens, many film makers use them and if you get a top end brand the quality will be good. These will have a manual focus and build quality of the higher end lenses is usually extremely good.

A less well known one https://www.scottscheetzphotography....mron-300mm-f28

Although, I suspect the f4 lenses will be more in your price range.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

With a properly design lens that is designed to remain in focus throughout the zoom range the design allows for any focus point to be the same at all focal lengths so markings are repeatable. On a stills style lens the markings will always be +\- an amount depending on where you set the zoom. You could mark the zoom position in say five different colours then mark the focus in the same colour any build up a pattern that you could present on a chart but I’ve never tried this to see what the results looked like.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks. If I can't zoom, then I can't zoom, and I will just get a telephoto lens for other shots, besides zoom shots then :).

I thought about getting an older lenses before and tried one out, but it had a much softer look to it. The person at the camera store, told me that older lenses have softer looks to them, and if I want a telephoto lens that is sharp in order to match, they said that I need a modern telephoto to match the other modern lenses I will be using.

Do you think that's true though, and that older lenses perhaps just look too different? There is one on sale though that is used that is the Sigma 150-500 so maybe that one will match modern lenses perhaps?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Older lenses are much in demand because of their look, the latest lenses being regarded as too clinical by many and the older lenses have a more interesting look on the digital cameras. However, you do need to ensure your lenses match, so you can't mix old and new lenses unless they have the same characteristics. Cooke are now manufacturing new versions of their Panchro lenses.

https://www.cookeoptics.com/l/panchro-classic.html

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks, that's what I was told before, not to mix old and new. So I get an older telephoto lens, but also want wide and medium lenses, then I should get older ones of those as well. Or otherwise I would get all new. If Rokinons are good, is there any telephoto lens that is new that operates like Rokinon for pulling focus, but also has the same quality looking match?

Or I can stick to getting all old lenses if that's better or those Cooke ones.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

The Cooke lenses are well out of your price range, even old ones will be out of it these days. There's a big demand for them.

Regarding vintage lenses, I would look online for the different characteristic of various lenses, it's a personal choice. I know someone bought a budget 1970s lens from ebay for £5 and liked the images it produced on a BlavkMagic camera.

An older high quality telephoto should hold up pretty well with the Rokinon. It's a matter of matching the contrast and colour as much as possible.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Part of that comes down to the visual style you’re after...what do you want the final product to look like? Do you want a softer look, a razor sharp look? Does it matter to you? That will narrow down your possible choices.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks. Whether or not I want a soft or razor sharp look depends on certain factors. One filmmaker I know told me that with the softer look, you can actually get away with more, such as say, prop guns being made out of rubber, as oppose to needing them being made out of real metal with razor sharp modern lenses, cause then with the sharp ones, you can tell if it's rubber or not.

Is that true though, that softer lenses are better for more flexibility with prop realism?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

I wouldn't confuse "soft" too much, the lenses are not that soft, it depends on the quality of your rubber props. Poor props will still look like rubber, high end feature films still use "rubber" props for fights etc.

The lens choice is aesthetic and about how you want the film to look overall. Basing it just on your rubber props is pretty utilitarian.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Yeah that's true. Well I am not sure which look would be best. By soft are we talking like the softness of an 80s movie more so?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

No, it's to give a more "organic" look to a digital image. How soft a 80s film looks will depend on the film, they're different and have differing lens filtration .

If you want that look you should shoot on film.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks, it's kind of tough decide on a look vs. the price what I can afford. Is there any lenses around 300mm that are around a similar range of price a Rokinon, that I perhaps am missing?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Look on eBay, you may used early Canon 300mm f2.8 lenses there, these are professional lenses and should hold up pretty well with a Rokinon (it probably out performs them) However, a used Canon 300mm f4L may be a better bet on the price,

I would use google to see comments and reviews of these lenses,

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks. I tried looking for Canon before but it seemed all the lenses so far that could connect to a modern adapter are fly-by-wire, unless older ones that are not fly-by-wire can also connect to an adapter as well. I can keep looking.

As for the zoom shot I wanted before, I thought maybe I could just cut it instead. I could show a close up of the main character look through the door window, and then cut to a about 50 or more feet away, and show the people waiting to ambush him.

But I am worried this will be jarring to the audience, if I cut instead of zoom. When I cut to the 50 or more feet away of the men waiting to ambush, the audience might be thinking "what, were are we now? where is the main character all of a sudden. Is there a window in the background far away from everyone? Is he looking through that window?"

So I am wondering if cutting to such a far away point of view all of a sudden, will cause the audience to loose their sense of direction of I cut, as oppose to a zoom back.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

I suspect you'll have to work on the shot in your own mind, forums can only go so far.

Regarding the lens, the mounting system will be a restricting factor. Some camera mounts give you a wide range of options through adapters, mirrorless cameras from say Sony offer advantages in this.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks. I tried mounting my current lens on other cameras, with adapters cause I want a telephoto, I can mount from camera to camera, depending on what the cinematographer has. I tried with an electronic adapter that feeds power to the lens.

I noticed that the fly-by-wire focus still works, with an adapter, on another camera. However, the F-stops do not work. It just says "F--", instead of having actual F-stops. So if I were to get an all mechanical focus ring, what's the point of an electronic adapter, if the aperture doesn't even work with it?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks, I'm going to ask B & H what more about which one l could use be as well.

I was wondering, it was said before on here not to do crash zooms cause they look dated nowadays. I was watching Cape Fear (1991), and noticed how Martin Scorsese did a lot of crash zooms in that movie, so I figured maybe if he is doing in the 90s, maybe it's not so bad.

As for running with a gimbal instead and using a speed ramp instead like it was suggested, wouldn't speed ramps look dated, in the future from now?

Wouldn't a lot of people look back at movies nowadays and say "those speed ramps are so 2010s", much like how people nowadays say "those crash zooms are so 1980s"?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

The answer is do what you feel is right, it's your film

However, unless you've got a parfocal zoom (as in cine or video zoom lenses) or a varifocal zoom that displays parfocal characteristics, you can't do a satisfactory crash zoom.

At this point, you seem to be going in circles, so, I suspect, the thread has gone as far as it can go in giving you an answer..

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

I’ve noticed over the years here and on other forums that if someone asks for advice “I’m thinking of doing X what should I do?” Even if everyone’s recommendation is not to do X, the original poster will inevitably do X. It’s just human nature why fight it you know you want to do the zoom just do it.

One of the most important things you can possibly learn to do is, to find your inner voice and to listen to it.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Sorry I don't mean to sound stubborn about it, it's just that film riot did it in the video. They crash zoomed with a DSLR lens, and they were able to do it, even though it's supposedly impossible.

It was said before that he was using a lens with a mechanical focus ring and that is how he was able to do it. And I was told on here, that I should just sell my fly-by-wire lenses and get mechanical focus rings, cause it's a lot harder to pull focus on fly-by-wire rings. So if I should get a zoom lens anyway, with a mechanical ring, like I was advised to, that means I can do the zoom after all though as a bonus, doesn't it?

As for the fly-by-wire ring issue I was having. I talked to one person and he said that he has pulled focus on a fly-by-wire with a follow focus before, and it's no problem, and that I must be doing something wrong. Is it possible though, or is it not, and he is just missing something?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

The answer is to go to the nearest photographic dealer and test the DSLR zooms until you find one that will hold focus satisfactorily when zooming. This will vary from lens to lens.even on the same model, so you will need to test.

I would suggest starting with a Sigma zoom, the Cine version of this lens does hold focus unlike most varifocal still zooms, which won't. https://www.newsshooter.com/2016/12/...m-or-solution/

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks that helps! What about what some people have said that you have to pull focus during the crash zoom on a varifocal in order to get it to work? Is that true, or will pulling focus just not work, especially when doing a really fast zoom, where it's just going to snap back into focus anyway, when the zoom is done?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

It may work with auto focus, but you're trying to do something that will have other factors coming in like human error on the manual focus timing, the lens breathing during the focus pull etc. Also, you may get lag with the auto focus.

Get a lens that you know does the job, everything else is going to waste your time. Test, test test. People claim all kinds of things on the internet and they're incorrect in the claim. There is a handful of still zoom lenses which will hold focus to an acceptable degree, the vast majority won't.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Like Brian said you can’t make a blanket statement for every lens. Btw, I can do zooms without refocusing on my Canon 70d with 17-55mm lens. This works because you only need to manually focus the telephoto end, the wide will always be in focus. But I’d imagine a lens like a 70-200mm isn’t going stay in focus because of tremendous range and shallow dof, going from telephoto to super telephoto.

Just when I think this thread will end there is another chapter.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Can we rename it “The Walking Thread”? :-)

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

lol

I would rather see a behind the scenes making of this movie in mockumentary style. Replace the 11 amp scene with whatever an equivalent 11 zoom lens would be.