What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, I don't mind lighting at night, it's just the wide establishing shots, I have trouble with, cause if you back up the lights far enough for those, than they no longer work anymore. If I wanted to light a building at night for example, lighting the whole building for an establishing shot, is the problem. Close ups I can light, I just have trouble with wide establishing shots, hence why I thought a camera with a higher ISO, might be better... But I need the light to match, so if I move it closer for the close up, compared to the wides, than won't the audience notice, hey how come the lights are brighter for the camera in the close ups... So I have to have them in the same place as the wides to match, I figure?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Oh okay, I don't mind lighting at night, it's just the wide establishing shots, I have trouble with, cause if you back up the lights far enough for those, than they no longer work anymore. If I wanted to light a building at night for example, lighting the whole building for an establishing shot, is the problem. Close ups I can light, I just have trouble with wide establishing shots, hence why I thought a camera with a higher ISO, might be better... But I need the light to match, so if I move it closer for the close up, compared to the wides, than won't the audience notice, hey how come the lights are brighter for the camera in the close ups... So I have to have them in the same place as the wides to match, I figure?

These are all good questions but if you really are going to hire dp he's the one who needs to figure this out maybe when you're looking for someone qualified these would be a good questions.

Lighting the building is the easiest since many buildings use landscape lighting to light the facade. Obviously you'd either pickup these lights at a home improvement store or set up fresnel lights hidden in the bushes... One of the issues you probably haven't thought about is powering any of these lights, since most likely there will be no outlet to plug into which would mean running a generator, sure there a battery operated lights but powerful ones are expensive.

You also have to understand that big budget commercial movies have all sort of lighting solutions that you won't have. I was watching a behind the scenes of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and there was a highway shot where there was 20 mobile crane lights (20ft high) lining the road for a night scene.

That being said this is something you are going to need to research and ask people with working knowledge of approaches that you can afford.

Let’s be realistic there isn't going to be a lot you can do for wide angle shots, maybe a few strategic placed fresnels on key areas. This is where experience and creativity are going to come in to play. If you don’t have the camera and lights to experiment with I wouldn’t spend too much time playing what if. My take is you’ll need use fresnel for shaped side lighting for close ups that match what you expect from street lights and when you pull back wide the viewer will not be aware the closeup lighting isn’t there.

[Brian Drysdale]

Shooting wide shots at night is a lot easier than it used to be, especially compared to the 1970s, when some films didn't have big Hollywood style lighting rigs, yet managed to pull off daring stuff.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

These are all good questions but if you really are going to hire dp he's the one who needs to figure this out maybe when you're looking for someone qualified these would be a good questions.

Lighting the building is the easiest since many buildings use landscape lighting to light the facade. Obviously you'd either pickup these lights at a home improvement store or set up fresnel lights hidden in the bushes... One of the issues you probably haven't thought about is powering any of these lights, since most likely there will be no outlet to plug into which would mean running a generator, sure there a battery operated lights but powerful ones are expensive.

You also have to understand that big budget commercial movies have all sort of lighting solutions that you won't have. I was watching a behind the scenes of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and there was a highway shot where there was 20 mobile crane lights (20ft high) lining the road for a night scene.

That being said this is something you are going to need to research and ask people with working knowledge of approaches that you can afford.

Let’s be realistic there isn't going to be a lot you can do for wide angle shots, maybe a few strategic placed fresnels on key areas. This is where experience and creativity are going to come in to play. If you don’t have the camera and lights to experiment with I wouldn’t spend too much time playing what if. My take is you’ll need use fresnel for shaped side lighting for close ups that match what you expect from street lights and when you pull back wide the viewer will not be aware the closeup lighting isn’t there.

Yeah for sure. I am revising the story of the script, cause I need locations that are going to work for a DP, lighting wise, so I am trying to write a story to fit these locations. Just not sure if they would work, since I need more ISO, than what I have now on the current camera. But I am just trying to write for what I think might work at night, location wise, at this point, but not sure, what will.

[Brian Drysdale]

For a drama don't go for anything that requires more the 1500 ISO. Assuming you;re not going to go for f11, that will capture a wide range of buildings and locations, assuming you're shooting in an urban environment.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, but for the telephoto lens shots, won't I need f11 for those shots though?. It's a thriller, where during the night scenes, a character is being chased by other characters, but wanted to use the telephoto lens to pan with the actors as they run, just for those shots, if possible.

[Brian Drysdale]

I've shot at f2.8 with telephoto lenses. f11 tends to be more a bright day stop. If you want deep focus, don't use telephoto lenses. What you want and what is practical can be two different things. You can get the actors to run in an arc instead of a straight line, so that you don't need to pull focus. The camera lies wonderfully.

Directors come up things that are easy in their heads. but in practice are hit or miss in reality and require quite a few takes to nail.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Ryan and his obsession with telephoto lenses, maybe he should be an astronomer instead

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

I've shot at f2.8 with telephoto lenses. f11 tends to be more a bright day stop. If you want deep focus, don't use telephoto lenses. What you want and what is practical can be two different things. You can get the actors to run in an arc instead of a straight line, so that you don't need to pull focus. The camera lies wonderfully.

Directors come up things that are easy in their heads. but in practice are hit or miss in reality and require quite a few takes to nail.

Oh okay, thanks, I was wondering this as well, it's just the location I was going to use is not quite shaped in a way, to run like that, at least that running in arc, might not make narrative sense, but as long as the audience does not noticed, that the actors are running in an arc? Cause every time I try to trick the audience in the camera, in the past, they spot the trick. And I feel if I have the character running in an arc, the audience will say "hey, why is that character running in an arc, it makes no sense, when being chased". I guess I am just skeptical it would work, since when I tried cheating things like that in the past, it didn't work. But I can try.

However, the telephoto lens will not open wider than F5.6 though. The rental store also does not have a telephoto lens that can open that wide either, and I don't want to order lenses since that can cause scheduling problems. Is there a way I can make it work with what I have and shoot at a lens that cannot open wider than f5.6 and just get a camera with a really good ISO to compensate?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - sometimes you have to just spend money and try things. You cannot learn all you need then go and hire something and expect it to go well. You buy a camera, hire a lens and shoot your movie first go on every item - you just cannot work like this.

The arc thing is simply not am problem at all. The audience only notice if you shoot it from the wrong angle. The point of the arc is to maintain the same distance from subject to lens. If you have the camera in this position then from the camera's viewpoint, they will look as if they are travelling left to right - the arc is hidden. Obvious from above, obvious to a camera at the side, but panning with a long lens, with the actors reasonably tight - it won't be seen as a mistake. If you cheat badly, people notice. So don't do it badly, do it well!

Choose your camera, get the lens, and budget for a couple of days and nights of learning how to use the combination. You don't know the depth of field you will get till you mate the two items and try them out and spend some time evaluating the shots. f5.6 might be perfectly workable and the image quality very usable, or not. We don't know,

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. It's just I don't want to buy the wrong camera and say this will not work at all, like I did with the wrong lens before, only to find out about the hidden catches later. That's why I wanted to rule out all the hidden catches in the blackmagic pocket camera, before I bought it. Every time I buy a new piece of equipment almost, there is a hidden catch and I think to myself, well I wish I would have caught that before buying it. So I want to catch them this time before buying. Or I could just buy the camera, and if I am not happy with the night ISO, return it and get my money back I suppose?

[Brian Drysdale]

There's always something hidden, especially if you don't have the funds to buy the accessories or the kit designed to do the job. The ISO is given in the specification, so you should know the ball park.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh well it's just that with ISO, the quality is not listed. For example on my camera, once you go over 800, it gets to be too much noise. But with the blackmagics do they list how far the ISO can before there is too much noise? Is the noise quality listed anywhere? It says the ISO goes up to 25600 on that camera, but at what point does the quality become unprofessional?

[Brian Drysdale]

Extremely high ISOa are more for documentary type work, rather than dramas. Professional productions will use them, but it's unlikely in a drama unless it's for a particular look.

The noise will be more noticeable on a large screen. Having a quick look ISO 200 and 1250 would seem the range for the 4k Blackmagic pocket cinema camera regarding the noise levels. This would be the range I'd expect to use on a drama.

No one shoots night exteriors at f11 unless it's a model.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. Well if I want to use a telephoto lens that only opens up to f5.6 then, is there a camera with a high enough ISO, that is good enough quality to support that? Or what if I just shot it with high gain at night, like The French Connection did?

In The French Connection, they said they shot with high ASA film stock, cause they didn't have a lot of light at night, and even though it's a drama, could I use that type of documentary style then therefore? I was also told by another filmmaker to get the GH5 maybe instead or a camera like that, cause he said you can go up to 12800, and it will still look pretty good, if he is right on that camera?