HMC 70 Pros & Cons in depth Users review
 

I planning to get one of this Panasonic HMC70, Is this camcorder worth every penny? can any one give me Pros & Cons more in depth from owners?

Should i wait for Sony NXCAM?

Thanks lots

That's very early AVCHD technology and the bit rate is around 13MBPS. The HMC40 plus XLR adapter combination would be a much much better choice than that. I do not own either camera but you're gonna have to take my word for it.

If your willing to wait, the NXCAM does sound like a very good camera but I read that the release date will be in the Spring. That's a long time if you ask me and I hope it'll be earlier than that.

The HMC70 is an odd duck; it's 60i-only, it has a maximum bitrate of only 13mbps, and it doesn't even have a focus ring. Unless you have a very definite need for the shoulder-mount form factor, I wouldn't make the HMC70 my first pick.

The HMC40 is a great little camera, very inexpensive, has full 1080p HD sensors and recording format, and really the only knock against it is the light sensitivity.

Neither are in competition with the NXCAM, which should be somewhere around $4200 if the price of the Z5 is anything to go by. If you want to compare against the NXCAM, you should be looking at the HMC150.

Hi Andrew

Despite comments these are AWESOME machines!!! I own two HMC72's (that's just the PAL version) I shoot Real Estate video and Promos but mainly just weddings and they are the greatest!! In my opinion they outshine the HMC40 for events as they still use CCD sensors and I really cannot put up with the hassles of CMOS chips (been there done that and never again!!)
Sure, if you are a technology buff and want 6 different shooting modes and lots of scene files and bells and whistles then the 40 or 150 will fit you needs better, but if you want a really nice picture and brilliant audio controls then grab one!! The audio has twin XLR and full audio control as well as attenuation on each channel...even on auto the audio is excellent and has "auto level" control NOT AGC so there is no pumping effect on silent passages.

I have shot weddings with the cams on full auto and got brilliant results...sure it's only 1080i at 13mbs but watch the video on your TV via HDMI cable and you will be blown away!! There is manual but it is not as user friendly as most cameras..you have to use the menu buttons to focus BUT also you can access the menu and negotiate WITH the camera on your shoulder just by feel!!!!

The cameras are actually far more professional looking than web photos show and are not nearly as "plastic looking" Just realise that these weigh close to 6.5lbs!!! They get heavy after an hour on your shoulder.

I wouldn't change my pair for anything else..I have shoulder-mount, cameras with professional results and I really don't have the time to play around with multi-settings ..I can turn on a shoot and know that the end product will be good!!!

I may sound awfully biased about the HMC70 but I think they are really a great buy!!!

Chris

I have to agree with Chris on this one. The HMC70 is an entery level camera well price for someone looking to do HD and keep it simple. I've own this camera for over a year and it proven to be a great investment.

Thanks for the input Guys,
Im very new to AVCHD, all the time still using SD format. i guess this HMC 72 (PAL) will be my 1st starter HD Cam.
Where can i get more detail info for 13Mbps or 6Mbps? What the differences anyway? Is this Mbps recording mode very concern in some matter or just file size differ? Do i really need 24Mbps recording mode? since 13Mbps also can delivery jobs?

thanks lots

That determinants the picture quality and something that goes up to 13MBPS compared to something that goes up to 24MBPS is a gigantic difference. The picture quality doesn't even come close to today's camcorders.

Hey Andrew

More than likely you will be doing the same as me as most footage will be on DVD. If you are trying to do Broadcast footage on BluRay then yes 24mbs is required!! However even 6mbs is fine with HD rendered to SD. For weddings I do shoot at 13mbs and that gives me 83 mins of 1920x1080 video on an 8GB SDHC card.

What I do to get a decent workflow is use the free MainConcept transcoder that is on the Panasonic site and transcode all my HD footage to Widescreen AVI ..this is edited and distributed on a standard DVD. I have actually done exhaustive tests with the HD footage transcoded to different formats as well at native AVCHD all rendered to DVD and believe me it's pretty hard to tell the difference between identical clips....most people will never tell!!!

Unless you are supplying footage that HAS to meet certain requirements then don't get so hung up on technical issues!!! (I'm as bad as the rest BTW!!!)

I do weddings at 13mbs transcoded to AVI and my brides are absolutely delighted...if I shot at 24mbs and stuck that on a DVD they would NOT know the difference!!!!

Tell you what ...take a look at a few minutes of my wedding video samples on the link below and YOU tell me which were shot on an HD camera and which were shot on an SD camera ?????
http://www.weddingvideoswa.com/sample.html

It who's behind the camera that counts not a host of technical specs!!!

Chris

I have practical experience with both cameras, but have personally purchased an HMC40 for the following reasons:

• Manual control of the HMC70 felt very awkward, since you have to use the menu for pretty much everything. One set of buttons for zoom, iris, and focus.
• The HMC40 also supports zoom and focus/iris remotes.
• In general, I didn't like the feel of the HMC70. It was physically large enough to be bulky but not heavy enough to feel stable.

My two cents. I do like that the HMC70 has onboard BNC outs. I agree with Chris above in saying that it's the operator, not the equipment, that usually makes or breaks the shot.

Hi Bryan

Very fair comments!! I seldom use manual as with weddings you don't have the time to "play" I will use manual audio almost all the time and the layout is great! Yes a couple of rings would have made life easy for iris and focus.

I'm wondering is the USA HMC70 has the same case as the HMC72. My cams are more than heavy enough and clock in at 6.5lbs In fact after an hour they get pretty heavy on the shoulder!! One would assume that they both come out of the same mould in Japan????

With weddings I do a heap of handheld shots so I need something stable...I don't think I could get the same result on the HMC40 handheld at weddings and I'm still not a fan of CMOS sensors!! Results I have seen, however, show the 40 to be one awesome camera but having become hooked on shoulder-mount cams all my life..the current ones were an obviously choice!!

If you are going to need compactness then go with the HMC40 the 70's don't exactly fit into your pocket!! I think really that unless one has specific filming requirements and needs specs that fit them exactly, it comes down purely to personal choice. If I had to change from the 70 it would more than likely be to the 150 rather than the 40 as I do like the idea of having 1/3" CCD chips, maybe in some sort of shoulder "pod" ????

Chris

Chris,

How good is the Auto Focus handle in low light situation? will focus scramble to search object or jump forth & back for focusing?

advice me

thanks

Hi Andrew

I do weddings in dimly lit churches and have never had a focus issue running on autofocus.

However, I also do Realty Property Condition reports and that sometimes entails filming a white wall which the camera really hates and will lose focus because there is nothing to focus on!! I have also used a Sony for the same job and it couldn't focus at all!!!! I had to go back and use the Panasonic!!!

If there is enough light for an image then focus is always sharp!! At weddings I do the couples first dance with the reception lights turned right down and I just use an LED panel on the couple and focus is still razor sharp. Panasonic have probably the most efficient autofocus system I have used..even in very low light!! The HMC72 does have manual and you CAN operate the cursor buttons while the cam is on your shoulder...it also gives you a 2X magnification to make focussing easier!! I shoot around 36 weddings per season and have never had an issue with autofocus!! My previous cams were SD MD10000's and they too had a great autofocus!!! With any autofocus you will have problems filming thru dirty glass or through wire mesh but all cameras will have that problem!!

The auto focus operation on these is the least of your worries!!!! If you like a big camera then this is your baby!! If you want something compact then wait for the HMC42 to come out!!
BTW: You are obviously in PAL country?? Look at GlobalMedia Pro in New Zealand to get your camera...I have a writeup there as well as I've shopped with them for years!!!


Chris

I second that.

Cheers!

I try not to play around when shooting, either ;)

There are a couple of reasons why dedicated knobs and buttons are useful for my applications (I deal primarily with stage, theater, and live event shooting):

• Lighting in a scene may not be even. Auto iris is out of the question, and it's often necessary to ride the iris in the middle of a camera move. The remotes are incredibly useful here.
• Stage lighting (particularly indigos) combined with moving subjects frequently throw off the autofocus on all cameras.
• I can count on one hand the number of times I've gone handheld or shoulder mounted during a stage shoot.

Back to the HMC70, I know that the footage that I've shot on it looked pretty good for 13 mbps. That they are able to get such a nice image in half the bitrate of HDV is pretty impressive.

Chris

I just purchased HMC 72 (PAL), Very awesome cam & quite heavy too, Can i know what is the recording format you use for wedding event? HF, HN or HE? i used Sandisk 16 GB (Class 10) & 2 Transcend 16GB Class 6

thanks

Hi Andrew

Great..You must be happy now??? Waiting until you carry it around a reception for 3 hours ...then it gets heavy!!!!

Shoot all footage in HF mode!! On a 16GB card you will get around 160 mins which is nearly 3 hours!!!!!! I use 8GB cards in each of my cameras and HF gives me 83 mins per card.

I also shoot Property Reports for Real Estate and the quality doesn't need to be high so I often shoot those in HN mode but rather shoot everything at the highest bitrate!!!!

The battery that comes with the camera does a pretty impressive 2 hour shift (120 mins!!!) However for some reason I just cannot find replacement 2640mah batteries only the 5800mah ones!!! If you locate a source for spare batteries, let us know!! (Generic batteries DON'T work in the HMC series...you need to get genuine Panny ones with the built-in microchip)

Give us your experiences once you have used the camera a bit????


Chris

Thanks Chris,
I wonder you ever try using mix recording mode like HF (13Mbps CBR) in beginning recording and follow by next recording with HE (6Mbps VBR) in same Card.

I very happy with the wide angle lens 0.7x (Wvw4307), Even while zooming to 12x still getting fast focusing without distortion and dark corner & top-up some weight in-front.

Hi Andrew
The HMC72 has a fairly low bitrate as it is compared to the HMC152 so I would really stick with HF mode only!! SDHC cards are so cheap now that it's hardly worth using a lower rate unless you need 32 hours continuous recording time !!! A 32GB card will give you nearly 6 hours of AVCHD video at 13mbs !! Why ever go lower????

I find the that standard lens which is 39mm equivalent at WA is all I need for weddings. Even with the bride and groom and 4 bridesmaids and 4 groomsmen either side I can still get them in comfortably from 5 metres away.

Enjoy the camera and make use of the great audio section!!! I dunno if yours came with shotgun mics like the USA model (mine didn't) so I run two Rode VideoMics on each camera's cold shoe.

Chris

When this cam cam out, I more or less thought it was a joke I mean 13 Mbps
But when I had a look at Vimeo I was surprised at what this cam could produce.

Do a search for the HMC70/71 at Vimeo

Cheers

Hans

Hi Hans

Too many of us (and I am probably the worst!!) just love "specifications" and "technology" and sometimes we become so entangled in bitrates and technical aspects of cameras that we forget that it's the person behind the camera that really counts!!

To be perfectly honest I cannot tell the difference between AVCHD video shot at 6mbs and 13 mbs on the HMC72 and I very much doubt whether the average person would even see the difference!! The most important thing is content!! Give an idiot an HMC150 and let them shoot at the highest bit rate and the result will be poor, despite all the fancy specs!!!

I have shot footage on an ancient Panny DS30 (1 chip SD) and the result was pure magic because all the conditions were perfect, great content, great lighting and a great story!!!
I have also shot test footage with the HMC72 that looked like pure garbage as the light was poor, the weather was bad and the actual content was poor!!

However, forums need to thrive on technical issues so we love to talk about them and most of us males here like to have the biggest and the best too!!!

Chris

Hi Chris

You are so right :-)

I wonder one thing.
If I understand everything right you shoot in HD and then down convert with some kind of software,right?

How does it look once converted to DV PAL 16:9 regarding colors and clarity compared to the original.

The reason I ask is that I´m following a project where they are rebuilding a place here in Sweden and the cam i´m using is the Sony SR11 and I´m editing in Final Cut Pro.

At first i thought that it would only be one version and that would be in HD, but i now understand that they also would like one version in SD (PAL 16:9) and when I down convert my HD material from FCP it does look pretty "sad"

In the coming spring i will buy a new computer and I have been thinking of going back to PC and use Edius NLE and maybe also buy a new cam, maybe a Panasonic.
Then i can use the software that comes with camera and also use my Sony software and do the down conversion since they only work on PC and do 2 versions

The project will go on to 2011/2012 so there is some time to do some changes

Cheers and greetings from Stockholm

Hans

Hi Hans

I actually did a fairly comprehensive test by shootage some varied footage of around 2 minutes in AVCHD. What I then did is as follows :

(1) Use the AVCHD files in Vegas 9 and render directly to PAL DVD Widescreen Template
(2) Transcode the AVCHD to HDV MPEG2 using VAAST's Upshift and then render as above
(3) Transcode directly to SD AVI with Panasonic's Transcoder and then then as above.

I compiled each of the MPEG2 videos sequentially onto a DVD and watched them VERY critically on a 42" HDTV. It was virtually impossible to tell the difference as far as colour saturation, contrast etc etc and the first method showed maybe a very small resolution difference. However remember I was LOOKING for a difference and was comparing 3 identical clips...in real life no-one would ever be able to tell the difference as they would have nothing to compare it with!!

Maybe try and do a test yourself and let us know what your opinion is????

Chris

Hi Chris

I have tested to down convert from HD to SD PAL in every way possible on my Mac (iDVD, DVD studio, Compressor Mpeg Streamclip FCP Imovie) no matter what i do the result is always the same, to various degrees . A perfect clip in HD (colorful and crystal clear) will come out in SD washed
out and noisy and a bit dark.

So I thought it may be a good idea to see if someone used the program that came with camera that can down convert to SD directly would make any difference , and as I said the program that came with my Sony won´t work on MAC.

One thing I find very interesting is that you don´t seem to lose anything when it comes to
colors or contrast when you go from HD to SD on your PC, that´s were i have all the problems

I´m beginning to think that this might be a MAC problem with Quicktime

I have actually been looking for clips on Vimeo that was shoot with a HD cam and then uploaded as a SD clip and I have found a couple and they looked really good when it came to colors and contrast.

All of them was from a PC NLE

Cheers and Thanks

Hans

Hi Hans

It seems that the transcoders are geared for PC then??? I use the MainConcept one but that will ONLY work with Panasonic MTS files (a problem for your Sony!!)and this is again for PC only!!!

Check out the thread on the AVCHD forum..there is a guy there with posts about his AVCHD and his Mac..that may help you??? I think he was using Voltaic ????

Chris

Hi Chris

I´ve tested that rout as well.

There seems to be a bigger problem going from HD to PAL compared to HD to NTSC

There has been a lot of discussions over at Apple forum on this and the consensus seems to be when going to PAL is to bump saturation and accept the rest.
I´m pretty sure it has to do with apple QT

So my next computer will probably a PC with Edius

Once again Thanks

Hans