humidty issues
 

I am encountering the humidity issue with the GS100k. Coming from Denver, Colroado, where it is very dry, humidty is not much of an issue. But I came to Kauai to shoot a wedding for a friend. It has been hot, muggy, and rainy off and on. The humidity warning has come on twice in the process. Very inconvenient in the midst of critcal shoot.

My question has to do with the all weather housing. Have people, working in humid environments, been using the housing for normal shoots? Does it mitigate the humidity problem? I didn't buy one with the cam, but I may have to get one if I am going to be in humid environs...

I read back awhile about people having problems in Tokyo with humidity...and wondered what folks are doing to avert the problem.

Peter

Peter,

Ran into the exact same problem shooting a wedding in Jamicia. Everytime I would take the cam (GL2 in this case) from a cool air conditioned environment to the humid outside, len's would fog and humidity warning would occur. The problem is cause by the cam being cooler than the outside air. I got around it by very gently warming the cam with a blow dryer in a hotel room before going outside. As long as the cam is at or slighty above outside air temp, no condensation.

There's nothing you can do make your cam function in extremily humid conditions, as far as I know. All-weather housing might be one solution, but if it's also hot, as well as humid, all weather housing may cause your cam to over-heat.

Rob, I am aware of the condensation problem when moving from a cold, air conditioned room to the outside in a warm and humid environment. I have done a lot of shooting in Vietnam where this really can be an issue. But here, I didn't move between two extremes...no reason to get sudden condensation... The good news is that the thing dries out reasonably quickly, but the bad news is that it might not be online when you want it...

Peter

I would agree with Peter Warren that it's very frustrating to get that message in a critical shot.

My experience was just in home environment where the cam have been at the same conditions (no change for temperature or humidity). So I just took the cam form one corner of the room and shoot in the other and in no time the message terminated the action. I haven't checked how quick it can be reused but it's more than 10-15 minutes for sure. This might ruin all of your projects as a blink of an eye.

Inserting the tape is followed by immediate auto eject - very annoying. I tried several times in a 20 min period and finally gave up going to sleep. Now I keep my cam in a bag with 2 big silica gel paper bags!

I really thing this is not normal (nothing to do with the occasion described by Rob with the GL2). The weather housing might be good solver but in first place this over sensitivity (that's what I think it is) should be alarmed to Pana. In the same environment shooting with Sony TRV10 never gave such problems for 4 years. Or may be this old Sony is wrong! (Just joking)

For some reason Sony cams in general perform better in more humid and also in colder conditions than JVCs and Panas, from what I read on boards over the years.

I have had this problem numerous times now....Its getting cooler here in Tokyo and the tropical; Humid summer is over......

But when I take my camera now from a cold room into the kitchen where its hotter as everybody has been cooking ect ...and the Humidity warning apears...

So I just press the reset button on the side almost straight away and then its usually fine for some time...

I am however getting tired of this and would like to lnow if I should take it back for checking under warranty!

Hassle Pana about the problem a bit....

Do you think that the sensor is too sensative...

Can they adjust the sensor...

Is it worth the hassle of trying to take it up with Pana?

Any thoughts please,

Lincoln

Hmmm. It sounds like your cam is acting up, unless you have a running shower in the kitchen. Yeah, I would bug Pana. Couldn't hurt.

Well my opinion is that the sensor, the adjustment or both are wrong with this model.

Does anybody else have such experience with other model Pana or other brand?
I guess it’s humid in all East Asia so I’ll be happy to hear from Pana owners especially from that region.

I think all cams have slight differences in the adjustment – you can’t make 100% same thing. Standard can be well within 5%. For example Lincoln’s cam might be slightly more sensitive to humidity than mine. But when we find that GS100 is 30% more sensitive than Sony cams that’s a problem and should be addressed to Pana!

With analog VHS-C cam I’ve got only once such problem when entering a small church in the winter. Outside minus temperatures, inside warm and humid because of boiling water, etc. Japanese kitchen might be similar to that church but I guess Lincoln’s room is above 20 degrees (ha-ha).

Any way to finish we should think how to emphasize this problem to Pana. Any suggestions?

Has anyone considered discussing with supervideo? I still think he has a line into some of the camera/camcorder manufacturers because of his background, and he was able to find out fairly quickly for someone why the underwater housing for the mx5000 doesn't work with the 953. Frank?

Sure. E-mail Charles: chuckmeister@supervideo.com - maybe he knows something about this.

However, I've read that Panas don't work as good as Sonys in low temps and high humidity. I've read this about many models, such as between the DVC200 and PD150; MX300 and PD100A. JVCs also have trouble with humidity, I have read. (Maybe the DVCAM format works better in these conditions?)

But if that member's Pana is overly sensitive, there's something wrong with the cam and needs servicing.

In a cam's manual, one will find the operating temp and operating humidity specs. So if the cam isn't being used within those ranges, I doubt the warranty will do any good.

Frank I would agree with you and will check the recommended values later.

But... any manifacturer usually states safe for themselves numbers. I think it was something in the range 20-80% humidity and 0-30 degrees C which is funny! (I will update the correct numbers as soon as possible).

The logic here is to prevent danger from occurring mist on the head drum or in the optics. This is rather complex stuff not related only to the ambient humidity. There should be in camera logic to calculate for the change in the temperature as well. Soo... I don't know what to say more!

A few months back I was shooting in rain, at a waterfall. I had my 1 chip all wrapped up in Saran Wrap, plus my wife was holding an umbrella over us (me and the cam). Guess what. Too much humidity and the cam shut itself off. I did get some good footage, though. When I got home, I opened my cam and let it dry out for a couple of days. Then she worked again.

Well, looking at the manual and guessing at the kanji (based on the numbers), it's supposed to function between 0-40 degrees centigrade and 10%-80% humidity. As hot and humid as Japan gets, I would be surprised, with this model only released for the Japanese market at this time, if the upper edges of that didn't describe Japan during some of the worst part of the year for heat and humidity. So it may well be time for someone to take it back to Panasonic and complain, but those most likely to be effective are those in Japan. That sounds like Lincoln and Bogdan at this point. Things get done in Japan via the back channel, too, though, so a word to Chuck Littman wouldn't hurt, especially if he does have access to a back channel. Otherwise, I can see us all in the rainy season wherever we are trying to shoot events and dragging along hair dryers as a camcorder accessory. Samuel will then have to start adding to the GS100K owners' list who has which model of hair dryer.

Vancouver usually has 100% or near 100% humidity during the winter months, unless there is a cold spell (cold = dry in Vancouver). The best way I've found to shoot in this kind of weather is to:

1) Wrap the cam in Saran Wrap, which keeps the cam warm ("burning off" the humidity).

2) Keep the rain off the cam with an umbrella. A couple of times I taped one on to my 12.5 pound tripod. (But now that my new tripod weights less than 5 pounds, this setup will probably blow over.)

Oh, and to keep the lens free from say snow or spits of rain, use a nice big honkin' poker-like lens hood. (Hoya's are good.) :)

PS: http://www.8palm.com/nose1.gif

Frank, I've noticed that my camcorder gets pretty hot when I take it to gatherings, mainly because I keep it in quick start mode, I suspect. Do you think the camera heat helps in warm weather with keeping humidity away? (Right now, it's pouring rain outside, which it really hasn't done much this summer on Oahu, so...)

Good one: keeping a cam hot in hot humid weather. I wouldn't know, it never gets hot here in Vancouver. :)

Maybe strapping a ice-pack under the cam will cool 'er down. If it gets really hot, perhaps dry ice. :)

Thanks Patricia for the specifications - yes 0-40 degrees and 10-80% humidity - not so different from what I thought initially.

Well in Japan the temperatures generally doesn't exceed 34 but 5 months are almost all of the time over 80% so did we've got something for half year usage?!

This shouldn't be the case in my opinion. These are the safe service numbers the manifacturers usually state - check any electronic equipment spec sheet. I just did that for my video deck - absolutely same numbers but in the same room I never had 'humidity' issue with this video but with the GS100.

Thanks for yah advice...I have already contacted pana once about this an dthey said that I have to take it back to the place of purchase who will then deal with pana.....Lucky bought reasnobly close...the thing is that its a cheap discount shop with staff who dont even have out of box inventory and 0% friendlyness......but I dont care as I can be as unfriendly as they want me to be......and hopefully start hassling pana well before warranty expiration.....but if get replacement it better be a black beuty.....I will probably start my quest on Sunday,

why not?

Any good advice of complaint welcome!

Cheers,

Lincoln

Isn't anyone using the all weather housing? Chuckmeister seems to indicate that this is the way to go...

I recall the MX300 housing was very expensive. So I never bothered. With that kind of money, you can buy a good mic and an XLR adaptor. I'm not saying this housing isn't useful, but it kind of defeats going with a small cam.

Right Frank, this all weather case is about 26800 yen usuall price. People in Tokyo or using point card can make it a bit cheaper I guees.
Any way the main intention for this case is to use for vacational diving shooting some colorfull fishes at shalow depts (shnorchelling) or at extreem conditions - ski, beach (to protect from the dangeres sand).

Yes, like said, "I'm not saying this housing isn't useful." For me, I can get away with not using one. But then I don't swim anymore (since I moved to Vancouver), I don't shoot in the desert, it never gets that cold here, and when I do shoot in the rain (which I try to avoid) I shoot from under some protection and have my baby wrapped in see-through Saran Wrap---so everyone can see my puffed-plasticTM.*

*puffed-plastic, trademark owned by beaser. :)

So, Frank, the other side of the question is, if I use quick start and keep my camcorder going for six hours (as I've in fact done) in especially moist weather, will that contribute to humidity shutdown?

Peter: what is the chuckmeister's explanation re the aquarium - did Panasonic figure most people would buy it so need to calibrate the camcorder for non-fish? And what about that little horse blanket that's sold? Doesn't it do anything? Or am I getting the horse blanket and the aquarium mixed up? (I'm not putting down these items, by the way, it's just easier for people to visualize which item I'm talking about by using these terms, especially if I have the correct terms reversed.)

LOL Patricia!

The horse blanket is called Snow and Rain Jacket

The housing is called All Weather Housing

Their names should speak for themselves. Note that the first one is recommended only under SLIGHT snowfall or rain.

I don't think the All Weather Housing would help under humid conditions. It will only introduce more heat and humidity to the cam.

Lincoln,

Unfortunately, I think it would be a waste of time to go back to the discount shop and avail of warranty. Have you read their warranty policies very carefully?

One thing those discount shops have in common is that they would help you with warranty issues within a VERY SHORT period of time only (from 3 to 2 weeks depending on the store). Beyond that period, you MUST go direct to Pany. It's not true that you can't go to Pany. As long as you have a VALID warranty card (the one inside the green envelope) and some receipts to prove the date of your purchase, you can bring your cam to any Pany Service Center near you and they will definitely look at your cam. If you can't do that, you can even go to a regular store like Yamada, Kojima or Bic and they would handle bringing the cam to Pany but they would charge something like JPY3,000 for the trouble. Of course, you'd have to explain that your warranty card is still valid.

Besides, the condensation problem you're having with your cam will not be accepted by those discount shops as a proof of being defective.

Bogdan, that's a great price for the GS100K housing! Which store is it? It's more like JPY30,400 in Tokyo.

Yes, but no if you're lucky. I've experienced this with a number of cams over the years. Solution: be selective in picking less humid days, and expect it if you don't care about poor weather conditions. I don't think this wrecks the cam. I've pulled out my cam when it was snowing, but I didn't shoot for 6 hours---more like 6 minutes, then I'd wipe 'er clean, gently. :)

Patricia,

Lol, Creative Idea(!) for new owners to get some dryers also along with their cams!!

Allan, you can find the case and many other accessories at Hat-In online store. Here is the link for the cases:

http://www.hat-in.com/japanese/jma-d..._pana_case.htm

Their policy was to ship free if the order exceeds 20000 yen but check out for updates. Also the handling charge was very low - good store in my opinion.

I think thet both methods (wrapping in Saran wrap and all weather housing) would be effective if performed prior to putting the cam in the humid environment. Once there is some humidity already inside this would lead more to a "green house" effect rather than preventing the occurance of dew. Heat from the cam will also help for this to happen.

Any way what Lincoln and I experienced is somewhat normal conditions and shouldn't lead to cam malfunction. I haven't exposed the cam to rain or mist after all.

In The Service Centre
 

G'day everyone!

I just thought I would let you know that my NV100K still has Humidity issues...Usually when I start it after a minute or so the Dew Warning Light signalls. I then reset it on the side and it runs fine for some time. This is only when I use it on cold days. Not that cold though. Nothing to annoy my mates Sony...Camcorder.....well

I took it to the Akihabara Discount shop...Suprisingly they where fine and simply directed me to the Panasonic service Centre. Dropped it off


and will get it back in around 1 week.

Just thought Id let you know,

Cheers,

Lincoln

Let us know if this issue goes away once you have it back from the camcorder hospital. :)

Repaired
 

Picked up my black beuty from pana.

They said "here it is", and I said "thank you, what was the problem, what did you do to repair it?". They said that thay cleaned it. MMmmm well I havnt had any trouble but have only used it a couple of times since. They didnt clean it too hard though as there where grubby fingerprints all over the LCD.

Cheers,

Lincoln