Interesting thing about the DVX100A
 

My students are starting to realize something with the DVX100A, which I of course learned when I was a student using Hi-8 and BetaCam (hey, the VX1000 had JUST come out): flat lighting can really take away the colors from a shot.

But one thing I notice with the DVX100A, more than any other DV/HDV cameras I've used (incl. the XL-1, HD10, FX1, etc.) is that the colors get really muted. The DVX100A is very sensitive and powerful when it comes to colors, and if the lighting is flat or just not "right," the resulting images can be bland. Of course, one of my students made a dark short about addiction and used that to her advantage.

What I'm trying to say is, the DVX100A really responds to lighting and its affect on colors than any other camera I've used.

heath

Interesting. To a degree, I have noticed this as well. I shot some test footage as soon as I got the camera in a badly lit setup and it was very flat and dull looking. However, this was before I altered any settings.

Are you using cine like gama?

Yes, we are. We have the cameras set up pretty good.

heath

:)

I was just curious because cine like gamma tends to give a pretty flat picture. This may be part of the problem (although I am sure you have already pondered that!).

We offset that with the other settings, which, when lit properly, makes it really "pop" and look GREAT!

heath

hmm...
interesting post there.. and i agree somewaht that the DVX colours are quiote bland.. however the way i see it is this..

i shoot events.. i specifically chose the DVX100s (first and second release) due to its build, weight and configuration options. Now you mihgt notice that when shooting, your colours may be a lil bland or muted..
I use settings which offer a richer black, with a cooler temperate and dropped phase correction as teh DVX has the tendency to turn orange into pink...
However DV still compresses it to a point where these blacks still look slightly greyish and whites arent as piercing. This isnt a problem as its not noisy, its just.. well.. flat.. to the naked eye its fine, but im just pedantic.

I can easily up the saturations here thru the scene files, however i dont particularly like my footage to look like home video.. with oversaturated colours..

one thing about video.. is that light does play a major factor here obviously.. but like any modern production, colour correction in post is essential to get that finished look and feel. Even with a camera as powerful as this, some things still need that final gloss.
Personally, i run everythign through various colouring stages.

For some reason doing when i first got the camera didnt bother me and the extra work has actually taught me what the camera can and cannot do. Now i know exactly what settings to use based on the type of shoot i have and i will know before hand what will need to be corrected and what wont.

The camera is liek a car.. take it for a run.. youll know how it handles around bends, up and down hills, its manouvreability, its basic handling... once u know this, you will be prepared to get onto the road on a regualr basis. ie using this as a metaphor, once u know the DVX, you will KNOW exactly what results you will get before u even get them..

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : We offset that with the other settings, which, when lit properly, makes it really "pop" and look GREAT!

heath -->>>

Heath,

Would you mind sharing the specific settings you use?
I was thinking about borrowing a friend's camera and would like to try out your settings if possible.

Thanks.
Pete

theres also a range of settings to set the camera to match certain film stock, which im staill waiting to recieve.. then theres the settings for the cam to make the best of the filmstock.. ie settigns to use for xfering to film based on stock.....

again im eaiting for this.. i didnt know it existed until afew days ago...

I'd suggest looking around the web for books, etc. The settings we have on the DVX100A at the school are kinda top secret, and I know our camera instructor, one Jon Fordham, wouldn't want me giving it away. <wink>

heath

Barry Green covers all this in his book "The DVX Book". It is a must for anyone using the DVX100A. He ships a DVD with it that has tutorials, examples, menu settings and "Magical Projectile Settings" that create film looks.

This is interesting. I find excusivley what leads to a 'flat image' or a muted 'color palette' comes down to a few issues:

1. Always doing a proper White Balance

Don't rely exclusively on a PRST. Especially outdoors where the Color Temp can range from 1800K to 25000K; (I'm illustrating the scope of range here obviously! I'm not shooting at 8000FT in the snow :P).

2. Color Temp

Go outisde on an overcast day and the colors are indeed muted, cool and flat. This isn't exactly a unique characteristic of the DVX100 but more so the effect the Tempature has on colors.

3. Giving the CCD's something to work with in the use of light and dark. A flat, cool image (or overly warm for that matter) 'is what it is'. But add some highlights of light and dark and suddenly the canvas comes to life. With Light and Dark, the light is extremely more dramtatic in appearance; the light, the colors, the highlights...

Just my observation and HO.

John,

I agree with you--layering with light also helps. I think the DVX100A is so sensitive, that it small problems on an XL-1, for example, would be GIGANTIC.

Any tips with white balancing? Things look "pale" sometimes with the white balance.

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Any tips with white balancing? Things look "pale" sometimes with the white balance.

heath -->>>

Heath,

Do you think it's a bit improper for you to be asking for white balancing tips when you don't want to share your other DVX100A settings?

I thought the whole purpose of these forums was for all of us to help each other by sharing.

Best Regards,
Pete

LOL

Wow. I just caught that; Top Secret Settings. (Key Peter Gunn music now). Pete, cruise on over to Dvxuser.com where the wealth is shared by all.

As far as tips for WB? No real tip other than use an actual White (I use a Matte surface; not glossy) card, zoom in all of the way and Press the WB Button. I do it whenever lighting conditions change and sometimes will try a couple different WB's if outdoors and I have Direct Light and Indirect light available.

I use PRST from time to time usally on eyeballing the li9ght conditions; no secret; just what I do!

Pete, I think Heath made it clear that he's being considerate towards his organization's camera instructor by not handing that info out.

Heath contributes much more than his share of knowledge around here, but if some information is not his to give out, it's perfectly understandable for him to hold back.

Imran,

NP. Lot's of other places to get this information.

I just found it ironic that within the same thread he was asking for info when he had previously declined to share. Seems like if you're asking other people to help develop/improve your "top secret" settings it might be appropriate to share them. :-)

No big deal. I've seen Heath contribute lots of other info here.

I'm happy to move on to the original subject of this thread.

Best Regards,
Pete

Off topic we go; but 'Camera Settings' being Top Secret is one of the funniest things I have ever heard. Especially in non-proprietory environment such as an institution of learning.

"Hey! What did you have the Master Ped set at?"

"I can't tell you."

LMAO

Okay, back on topic before Mr. Hurd hears us!

Hell, I had been hoping to post a couple of pages on my site regarding user-submitted custom presets for the XL2 and DVX; it's just a matter of getting people to share them!

LOL

I hear you. That would be interesting though. Maybe a Frame Grab of True footage (Pre post) with the settings used; could come in handy for a variety of situations particulary in the realm of the 'Nasty Reds' and 'Moire Patterns'

Jon Fordham won't tell me his "secret sauce recipe" that he uses on his DVX100A, but it really looks like film!

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Jon Fordham won't tell me his "secret sauce recipe" that he uses on his DVX100A, but it really looks like film!

heath -->>>

Damn the Apes! Isn't he 'teaching'? : / It's like a Master Painter not telling you the ratio of terpentine and oil to use or The Music Master not telling you how to tune the instrument or or or.......

LOL

He gives us great tips for all five of the scene files (or is it six?), and I have to say, those rock!

heath

Pete,

Heath mentioned this thread to me the other day. And I wanted to weigh in on my policy of sharing. As a cinematographer, I have no problem sharing advice and information with my peers and colleagues. But for the students who are paying good money to use the cameras that I have set up for the Palm Beach Film School, I feel it unfair to post that same camera setup information on the internet.

There is plenty of setup information that I would be happy to share. And there are a few setups that I like to keep to myself. How the Palm Beach Film School's DVX100A's are setup is something that I feel unfair to share with those who are not PBFS students.

John,

Yes, I teach a cinematography class at the Palm Beach Film School once per semester. But I reside in New York city where I am a working cinematographer. My focus in the class at PBFS is on manipulating the DVX100A and using cinematic lighting strategies to achieve the best look for a particular project. But thank you for the "master" reference! :) JK.

Chris,

I would be open to sharing advice on how I personally prefer to setup the DVX if you're looking for an artricle to post. Just let me know.

For anyone in the TX area interested in seeing some of my DVX work, then check out the feature film Four Eyed Monsters at the 2005 SXSW Film Festival.

Four Eyed Monsters made its World Premiere at the 2005 Slamdance Film Festival.

You can read the Film Threat review of Four Eyed Monsters here.

Heath,

How do you always manage to pull me in like this?!

But in reference to your post, yes, lighting is everything. Both the Cine-Like and Cine-Like_D gamma curves create a lower contrast image that delivers lower color saturation. However, if lit with contrast and properly exposed, both gamma curves are capable of delivering beautiful images with plenty of color and wider lattitude than traditional video gamma curves. Add to that, that 90% of the consumer televisions (which is where most of your audience is going to see your digital opus) are way too over saturated in thier color settings. So by the time your conservative color reaches your audience's television, it should look just about right!

If your white balance isn't looking quite right to you in terms of warm and cool, then don't forget to use the Color Temp adjustment in the Camera Setup menu. Skin tone too pale? Adjust the Color Temp to warm it up. Skin tone too red? Adjust the Color Temp to cool it off. And just as important, don't forget to Black Balance, as it can drift when the camera warms and cools during operation. Which in turn will shift your color.

Thanks Jon,

If you have the time to write one up, I'd love to run it. I'm working on getting some other content finalized that you've written for us. Once I have that ready, I'll shoot you an email. Thanks again,