DVC30 vs.DCR-VX2100 HELP?
 

I am in the process of purchasing either the DVC30 or the DCRvx2100.I will be using this camera to shoot wildlife and will be outdoors with all of the shooting.
Could you guys give me a couple of pointers as to which way to go.
Keep in mind I will be in and out of the weather,up and down trees, carrying the camera on ATV. Zoom will also be very important.

Thanks and look forward to some feedback,
mike lawson

did i post in wrong spot?
 

I am new to this site, should I have posted this somewhere else?

Thanks,
Mike

Mike,

I would choose the DVC30 with 16x lens over the VX2100 with 12x lens if you are primarily shooting wildlife. It seems you can never have enough reach. Although I really like my DVC30 because of it's light weight, rugged construction and great image if I were doing mostly wildlife I would suggest also looking at the Canon GL-2 with 20x lens. Your next choice up if you have the budget would be the Canon XL-2 with 20x lens and ability to use camera lenses which will give you extreme closeup capability. This IMO would be the optimum system to use.

Regards,

Mark

DVC30 v VX2100
 

Right place to post.
Wildlife shooting right?

Pros VX2100: Probably better low light performance, going by articles read and posts in other forums.

Pros DVC30: x16 lens, very smooth zooming, a bit smaller, alloy chassis, night shooting with infrared (5ft without accessory, apparently up to 90 ft with optional attachment.

More reading;
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-review.htm

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-review.htm

Thanks Mark, and Stefan,
Any thoughts on a telephoto lens on either of the two cameras?
Will this degrade the footage too much?
Thanks again,
Mike

Mike,

Here are two reviews that you can look at

http://www.dv.com/print_me.jhtml?articleId=48800242

http://www.dv.com/print_me.jhtml?articleId=57702384

Good luck.

Lens
 

Can't really help you there. Talking about a x2 extension? There is a x10 digital zoom on the Panny and literature states that there is no degradation to x1.25. Eqivalent to x20. Tell you the truth, haven't used it yet. I'll give it a whirl this weekend and see how it is.

Mike,

My experience is the digital zoom on the DVC-30 or any of the cams discussed so far won't give you the image quality that you want. Since this cam accepts 43mm filters you could use a 43 to 58mm step up ring and a tel adapter for 1.5x or 2.0x increase. Just do a search here for "telephoto adaptors". There are some good ones out there by Sony, Canon and on the high end "Century Optics."

Regards,

Mark

any advise on where to purchase?
 

i think i have decided to go with the agdvc30. i really don't think i can go wrong with either one.
next question. where to purchase?
all comments and advise welcome.

thanks,
Mike

I live in Australia, but I believe that B & H Photo or Amazon are highly recommended, if you want to buy online.
Good luck.

advice on where to purchase
 

Mike,

I too have decided to go with the DVC30 with B&H being my only consideration.

B&H is currently offering this camera for $1799 with $150 rebate if purchased from an authorized Panny dealer before 6/30/05. So that's $1649 brand new after rebate from what appears to be the most trusted vendor on these boards. You will most likely see a better price from another site, but it's not all about the price--it's about price together with peace of mind. At least it is for me.

Cheers~

Mike

Mike,

You might want to take a careful look at the rebate form on B&H. You have to also purchase an AG-DV2500 VTR in order to get the $150 rebate. I just bought a DVC30 with the XLR adapter from them too, despite the fact I won't get the rebate.

PEACE,

Steve

The apparent advantage of a 16X zoom lens on the DVC30 is not as great over the 12X zoom of the VX2100, as it may seem. The zoom range of a lens is a different factor than the magnification power. The upper number in the zoom range, in millimeters, compared to the CCD size, is the determinate of the lens magnification. The DVC30 has a zoom range spec of 4.1 to 65.6mm. With .25-inch CCDs, this means that the DVC30 has a magnification power of 13.44X. The VX2100, with larger 1/3-inch CCDs and a 6 to 72mm zoom range, has exactly 12X magnification, coincidentally the same number as its zoom range. The Panasonic DVX100, with a 10X zoom range, has only an 8.8X magnification power (please don 't ask me to show my work on these calculations. Those who are savvy lens mathematicians can confirm these figures-----or argue with them). Cameras with smaller CCDs give higher magnification and those with higher numbers in their specs for the top of their zoom ranges also give more magnification. In this case, the smaller CCDs of the DVC30 give it a bit more magnification than the VX2100, despite it's having a smaller top end of the zoom range spec. The number value of video magnification is of course, a relative figure, based on a comparison to the size of a subject as it would appear on a 35mm photo. This comparison is also subject to how much photo enlargement and video screen size is involved.

Based on the smaller CCDs of the DVC30 and performance reports I've read on both it and the VX2100, I believe the Sony camcorder has much better ability to shoot good pictures in limited light. I also believe the VX2100 will give better overall image quality. As a wildlife videomaker who uses a VX2100, I have found these qualities to be very important.

I use the Sony 58mm, 1.7X telextender, which gives a total magnification of 20.4X. on the VX2100. It vignettes with this add-on lens only below about 40% to 45% full zoom, depending on light levels and use of filters. I'd like to have more magnification, but I've found that image quality and the ability to quickly frame a scene, suffer when you try to squeeze more lens power out of one of these small cameras. Compared to a 16-lb Beta with 2/3-inch CCDs, both these models are very small. I carry my VX2100 around in a backpack or in the cargo box I have on the back of a mountain bike. All things considered, I rate the VX2100 and its closest relatives, the VX2000 and PD170, as the best for standard-definition wildlife videomaking-----that's why I bought one after months of comparative shopping.

The VX2100/VX2000 is pretty much unrivaled in low light performance by any other 1/3" or 1/4" 3CCD in its price range. The difference is quite remarkable and its the reason its been a staple in my collection for years.

i found my DVC30 produces a relativelly unsaturated picture, colors are muted and even with pedestal dialed down rather flat - very uncharascteristic of Pana cams of late. Dont get me wrong i dont bust the cam, its feature rich and good in very many other ways, important ways too. The DVC30 gotten hype-like reviews from many publications but its ultimatelly up to you to see if u like its footage or not. Personally, im not head ova heels about it, but lotsa ppl are.
As for the VX2100, from the grabs i seen it seems like its better PQ-wise, but what im amazed at the most is that the VX2K's got minimal artifacts, like edge enhancement and such.. very nice.

Hmmm... I think I am in the same boat. I have decided to sell my PV-DV953 and get a better camcorder and am trying to decide mainly between the DVC30 and the VX2100. right now I am not shooting 16:9 so besides the bigger CCDs of the sony, the DVC30 seems to be the winner of the price/performance decision. The cameras are around $600 apart... very tough call. Mark

advice on where to purchase/erroneous post
 

There is no rebate on the DVC30 at B&H without purchasing the AG-DV2500 VTR.

Thanks for the head's-up on that Steve--hope you're enjoying your new DVC30!

~Mike

Dvc30/60 Vs Vx2100
 

I have reviewed raw footage from both cameras and the difference in normal lighting is minimal, almost unnoticable. I had to strain to see extremely small differences in details that were totally insignifigant to me or my editor. The editor of my footage was totally surprised at the high quality from the DVC60.

I low light, the Sony is king. Period. However, for the money, in normal lighting conditions, I would not buy the Sony unless I had the money to spare.

The Sony is also excellent when left in AUTO for a wide range of conditions.

I favor the Panasonic whenever I want Pro Quality Sound. I hate Sony for leaving off XLR option on the 2100.

if you are not on a budget how about this model from sony
saw it first hand at the sonystyle store here in houston and the sales rep said it has wysiwyg monitor first of its kind i believe.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...efinitionVideo

Low light yes and grainy low light at that. I've shot DVC30 and VX2100 side by side at night and the VX2100 footage was very bad because of grain. The DVC30's blacks were black as we intended them to be.

The fact is that the DVC30's color gamut on the waveform and vetroscope is full and rich covering the full broadcast color spectrum very well. What settings were you using for your test?

I've also seen these two cams side by side and I'd have to disagree with your statement. I'm not sure what settings you had or the conditions but in my findings (over 200 tapes logged) the VX2100 is capable of discerning more detail with far less grain.

The grain becomes more visible only in EXTREMELY low light conditions and so far I've encountered it only in a forest where they had some poor yellowish lights to make the track through the forest a bit more visible for your eye. In normal low light cases like city at night, there is pretty much no noise on the video. What I especially like with VX2100 is that even with max gain the colours stay good and the picture overally keeps its liveliness (many cameras tend to give very flat and greyish image with high gain).

I don't have any experience with Panasonic DVC30, but VX2100 is something I can certainly recommend.

both cams
 

I just shot a live show with both cameras. I own a dvc30 and rented a 2100. the 2100 was by far better in the low light. I think the dvc30 is better built and more rugged than the 2100 though. The 2100 needed color correction where as the dvc30 didn't need any under these conditions. But I needed to shoot at 1/30 shutter speed to get enough light into the dvc30 which ment a shot in quality. I like the color of the dvc30 better than the 2100 but then again maybe i'm just used to the dvc30 more than the 2100.

There are definately pros and cons to both cameras. But having used both, I think overall the dvc30 is more suited to me. The xlr adapter, better built, good picture. But if I were going to shoot something like the live show again, I'll be renting that 2100 again.

comparison
 

here are some videos shot with both the dvc30 and the 2100. click on the videos link. the 2100 is from the right, the hand held from all other angles is the dvc30 with a wide angle lens. besides the crappy camera work, you can get a sense of the detail differences. The 2100 had color correction where as the dvc30 didn't have any. But even though, under these conditions I think the 2100 did better. With the wide angle adapter, I had to shoot the dvc30 at 1/30 shutter speed to get more light. so there is less detail because it's the same as that frame mode. I also had a bit of a problem with focus on the dvc30 through the eyepiece. It's my first videos

http://www.hollinssteele.com/

Nice clips! Did you use them both in built-in widescreen mode?

Actually the 2100 is one of the most rugged and well-built cameras I've ever seen and I'm not the only one saying this :) I don't know what made you thinking differently though ;)

thanks
 

I did shoot them both in squeeze mode. my thought was 16:9 but in the end I figured it would be more suited to their needs to do letter box so I should have probably just shot 4:3 and cropped. Live and learn.

It is a fairly rugged camera, but not compared to the dvc30. the dvc30 feels like you can drop kick it, pick it up and keep filming, although I haven't actually tried this yet.

LOL, I hope you will not try that! :)

By cropping you would have got 4:3 footage with some kind of widescreen look, but with the camera's 16:9 it is still widescreen, although a bit more blurry in TV. I think you can do a similar 4:3 -> 16:9 conversion like the camera does, in your non-linear editor as well, but I'm not sure if the result would be better or worse.

The VX2100 footage in your videos looks better in colours, but it's probably just because of the awesome low-light of the Sony. I'm sure the DVC is great in better light, but I've never seen any daylight footage of it unfortunately :(

The two cameras are really aimed at different market segments, and the DVX is the real 2100 competitor in my view.

But the 30 does have its merits. A big side screen and that lovely Leica lens certainly pulls in the punters in the camera shop. But when you read the forums it's the Sony that wins the plaudits, and it's not just its info-lithiums, its zoom ring, its low light supremacy (even Panasonic admit that) and faster lens.

It's the fact that the 2100 has bigger chips and shares the same lens and chip-block assembly as the PD170. With that sort of pedigree the 2100 has sold by the skip-full, and deservedly so. It does need a Beachtek hanging underneath, but that's why the PD series exists.

Go for the VX if you're serious, if only because those bigger chips and half-stop faster lens will give you much more beautiful differential focus.

tom.

idealy
 

Idealy I would like to own both cameras. The DVC30 is good for running around with the camera in a backpack and xlr adapter for the shotgun outside. Inside, the 2100 is much better and would probably be sitting on a tripod so an xlr adapter wouldn't be much of a burden. But then i'm getting closer in price to a PD170, which is really what I want. I've made a few bucks with the DVC30 shooting triathalons and promo stuff for a store, so with that and boy whoring I should have enough to buy a sony of some kind. Just kidding by the way, about the triathalon stuff.

made me laugh michael.