Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

I would consider getting a fz1000 as imagewise it would complement my gh4 which is why those comparison videos where linked to, only after have seen those video's the camera would not be suitable for my needs and not a "safe recommendation", that comparison was very important to know how the fz1000 preforms in low light and since it was compared to my own camera I know exactly how it does now at a comparible f-stop. This is also very useful for any other gh4 owner that thinks about getting this as a b-camera to know what the limitations are.

It was only made very clearly this info was either not interesting or irrelevant because it was not a problem for it's current owners that started the thread. If you look at it like that then it's better to start your own blog which I would recommend to Roger if he wants to have total control what needs to be censored or not if it's not in line with his opinion and he can even ban users if he is tired of listening to them, however, that's also partially possible here as well as there is a "ignore" option so you don't have to read certain users messages which, as I found out, works very well.

It's with comments like "my sony would have died!" that you get a topic off topic because you can expect this to be questioned, the way you say it know is much better because it gives existing nex-ea50 users an idea about how the fz1000 would perform under the same circumstances at a f-stop of f2.8, a video ofcourse proving this would be perfect. This is exactly the same info I have been trying to give for a gh4 owner and I think this very valuable for any interested buyer, it's not about this vs that camera like you constantly keep on repeating, it's about providing clear info to provide a better understanding how this camera performs instead of saying "it"s not a problem for me".

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Hi Noa

Unless you have both models at the same time it's not easy to do a comparison. I did put a highlight clip on page one of this post and all the footage at the end was shot without any lighting so it's much easier for me. One would expect an APSC camera like the EA-50 to be technically better in low light than a 1" sensor so I guess the signal processing is a whole lot better??

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Having decided to withdraw from DV info 3 days ago, I have been persuaded to do a U-turn by several very kind, persuasive and supportive emails from members.

Contrary to suggestions, I did not withdraw because of others disagreeing with my views or being over sensitive, but because I felt that a number of comments on this and previous fz1000 threads were becoming very personal and sometimes mocking. As someone who is quite prepared to stand up for himself, the options seemed to be to ignore, respond and risk dragging down the good natured tone of the forum, or withdrawing.

I hope that by returning, the discussions can be kept on the subject rather than personalities involved.

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Nice to have you back Roger

Had two weddings this weekend and the cameras worked very well ..no issues at all!!

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

To cover a number of points, my reasons for posting in the weddings and events forums, was because I bought the cameras specifically for that use and was interested in what others using this comparatively new camera we're finding. The Panasonic thread does not have a section for the FZ cameras which is a shame, as there would be the provision for threads on different adpects of the camera without lumping all together. Steve mentioned the fact that I had started 4 threads on the Fz1000, but to be fair, in the Panasonic section when I looked the other day, there were 13 threads on the first page on the G4 alone, not to mention innumerable threads on other cameras under the Panasonic sub grouping. I hope that Chris Hurd will respond to Chris Hardings request for an FZ grouping.

Regarding low light performance, I fully understand that some feel it important to compare test results between various cameras for the benefit of others that may be considering the camera. From a purely personal point of view, once concerns have been expressed, I feel it equally important to find out how users are managing with the camera in low light. Do improvements in image processing allow manual changes to be made which enhance the low light performance of the camera in the field or are users finding the limitations a problem?

A camera with interchangeable lenses will allow a much faster lens to be used at higher telephoto ranges in low light with a wider aperture setting. I have other lenses for my EOS 550, but one of the reasons for buying the FZ1000 was to do away with the need to carry extra lenses, providing it didn't compromise my ability to get the end results that I needed. That means that I need to be prepared to use extra light if necessary under circumstances where a bigger sensor and faster primes may be sufficient on some other cameras. So far I have only needed to do that on one occasion where all lights were turned out, but unlike Noa, haven't had to film in a candlelight only situation with the FZ1000. The vast majority of my hours at a wedding are in full to medium light conditions where the camera has given excellent results with speed and convenience for video and photography. For me that is why I bought the camera, and the occasional extreme low light situations are something that I use alternatives for if necessary.

I am not in love with the camera and it is certainly not perfect and there are various things also like the lack of a variable creeping zoom that I have to forego, but for sheer flexibility and picture quality it does just what I need, but would not be suitable for many. All other cameras at whatever price have their limitations, whether due to performance, size, audio, lenses etc, and it is always enlightening to find out how others use their cameras.

I may have started this thread aimed at users, but it is not my thread to control and I hope that all opinions can be considered on a respectful basis as expected on the forum.

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

How are you getting on with the stills compared to the Nikons?

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Welcome back Roger.
I have found this to be a very informative thread. Never be afraid to give opinion or advice no matter what others might say. There will always be people who can take something useful from these opinions even if they don't post. It also true that people can end up arguing without really meaning to in forums on the internet.
Whilst the camera is not for me, it must be very tempting to many people due to the price and performance

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Thanks Andrew,
Both the FZ1000 and RX10 are going to appeal to very similar users, with the Panny having the greater telephoto range and the Sony having the constant 2.8 aperture across the smaller zoom range. I liked the constant 2.8 on my FZ200 cams, but the 2/3 sensor made it lose a lot in low light. Those that prefer the look of one make over another, or have other cams of the same make will probably choose accordingly.

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Hi Roger

Slightly off topic but I staying with the Nikons for indoor stuff and using both the Nikon and FZ for outdoor shoots ... Still need to find a TTL flash for the Pannys

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Your comment recalls my experience with the GH3 when I first used it in conjunction with the Canon 60d I already owned. I expected to continue using the 60d for indoors whilst using the GH3 for run n gun as I had the GH2. I was quite surprised to see the GH3 outperform the 60d in low-light despite the smaller sensor and the Canon was sold on soon after.

If I was jumping from the 60d to the FZ1000, I'd expect I'd be mightily impressed by low light performance and image quality in general. Coming from the inbetween upgrades of the GH3 and 4, obviously this alters my perspective. Not sure how old your ea50s are, but image quality has come a long way in the last few years.

Ultimately how users respond to the FZ1000's low light will depend on what they're currently using now.

It's a roller coaster this thread. :)

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Totally agree Roger. Welcome back

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Bottom line is that for the price, there are some pretty impressive cameras... pluses and minuses, of course...

It took a long time for Chris H to get the Sony areas rearranged, so as one "orphaned category" to another, you're more than welcome to discuss the FZ1000 over under the threads on the Sony RX10... as far as I'm thinking, they are very similar cameras in "focus" and concept - so sort of fit together better than the ILC class cameras. Us outcasts gotta stick together!

FWIW, I've found that dropping shutter speed to 30 can bring up low light in a pinch, not sure how the FZ operates, but since 4K is 30p anyway, it seems to be workable. Maybe not ideal. but one way to squeeze a little more out of the darkness.

There are some "tricks" that are universal, and others that are brand specific, in the end the only thing that counts is that you got the shot, and didn't tear your hair out getting it... regardless of the label on the front or how much you spent!

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Hi Dave

I know my Sony EA-50's defaulted to 1/25th in 25P mode (in your case it would be 1/30th and 30P) so I'm assuming the bride cameras (both Sony and Panasonic) would do that indoors? I don't seem to have any motion blur even with the dancing but then again it's a wedding so they just don't go wild! 25P seems to work pretty well both indoors and out plus I'm used to shooting in 25P as my Sony's used to give me a bit of posterization if any area was over-exposed and you were shooting 50P so I normally just use 50P for my stedicam shoot. The FZ has a beautiful 100fps slomo mode but when you start recording it locks the exposure so I cannot do my "roundie rounds" with the stedicam as I usually do a full 360 circle around the couple and try to get a sunburst on the way .... fixed exposure just blows out totally as I get to the bright section and stopping and restarting the camera spoils the flow totally. That's a big bummer as I was hoping to use the slomo feature for bridal shoots on stedicam!!

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Hi Dave,

That could be a good intermediate compromise until a new category is available :-)

I've been experimenting with 25fps and 50fps (pal land) to see what differences I can find, no hard and fast conclusions yet though. I probably need to set up a fixed shot and switch from one to the other to really see the difference.

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Hi Colin,

How did you get on with your 'out of retirement' wedding?

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Whoah boys! - I don't check in for a while and there's been a fair bit of verbal biffo - let's relax.

I had an FZ200 as a backup cam and found it great, I got the FZ1000 and now have 2. I always have a 2nd shooter and we each have one hangng off the belt.

I've used them for bride & groom prep and they are great, I find the GH4 with FD lenses gives me a an image I like more - but the ease of using the FZ1000 really makes it a hard decision.


During ceremonies we both have the GH4 and the FZ1000 as a backup cam - it's great to be able to leave the GH4 on a fixed closeup and grab the FZ1000 for a quick shot of the MOB tearing up.

Up till sundown I feel I could get away with using the FZ1000 as the only camera, no problem.

In dim receptions I have a problem, maybe it's my settings but given a choice between a GH4 with my FD 85mm F1.2 ans the FZ1000 it's no contest.

I'll try to do some direct comparisions and put them up.

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

I still have a pair of FZ200s that I use for quick grabs occasionally and it was those cameras that influenced me to get the FZ1000s.

I'm sure the f1.2 lens on the G4 will give you far more low light options probably about the time I would consider using extra light for the FZ1000. I have found that my receptions so far haven't given me any low light problems, but the next one could just turn out to be candlelight!

A G4 with lenses is a way to go for a number of users on the forum, but not suitable for me, partly for cost, but also because working solo most of the time I want the speed and convenience that the FZ1000 gives me, rather than different lenses, which some prefer of course. One man's meat etc.

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Hi Paul

It's just common sense that a GH4 with it's bigger sensor and fast F1.2 lens will be a low light killer ...At our receptions I can mange everything except when they really dim the lights for the first dance to crazy levels and then, of course the video light is a necessity!

A GH4 and 85mm F1.2 is also likely to cost a whole heap more. We seldom have candle light receptions like Noa often has and if we did I too would opt for a GH4 and a very fast lens.

At 85mm at F1.2 don't you struggle with DOF? The GH4 has a crop factor of 2X right?? so that makes the lens a 35mm equivalent of 170mm ....you must have to be an awfully long way from the people to shoot with that?? On the FZ I seldom move off 25mm and at F2.8 I do have a reasonably big DOF to work with so it's easy! I tried a 50mm Sony F1.8 on my camera once during the dancing and everything was just too close to work with ...at that was a 35mm equivalent of 75mm only and I really struggled!!

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Using fast primes for low light isn't just about capturing a visible image, it's about capturing one with as minimum noise as possible. I've just spent the day going around castles with my GH4 and 2.8 zoom lens. The image acquired was quite visible and clear but nothing at all like the quality I can get with a fast prime. Colour and detail look considerably better when ISO is kept lower.

As Chris is right to point out, it comes at the cost of a narrow DOF and tough focusing, and as Roger says, carrying a lot of lenses. However there is a clear difference in the kind of videos we all offer. For me, I'm trying for something more artistic or cinematic, whichever term best fits. Using sliders, jibs and gimbal along with primes to capture the day with an eye for a good looking image. Others favour a more documentary approach and the criteria of gear will differ accordingly.

Ultimately we choose for our needs and budget. Suggesting the FZ1000 isn't suitable for my needs is not a suggestion it isn't suitable for Wedding filming. That rather falls down to your style and methods of filming.

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

I don't have a FZ1000 and don't plan on buying one, but I did find this footage which I thought looked pretty impressive for a camera with its price tag:


I could see the 120fps being very useful as long as there's lots of light. Even if you didn't use it as an A or B camera, you could still get some shots in 120fps that would be pretty spectacular.

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Excellent Roger. It was in my dark old local church, just 2 minutes down the road. I got a fair few shots at the tele end and was delighted with them. Will post a clip when I have edited. I pushed the iso up to 5000, the results were very impressive

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

I look forward to seeing the clip Colin.

I dug out my Glide Gear stabiliser today after about 18 months of non use. It just didn't seem to do the job with my other cameras. The FZ1000 though seems to balance perfectly and initial testing looked promising. The cameras stabilisation seems to work well with the Glide Gear, damping out movement that the hand held one doesn't fully remove. I'll try it at the next wedding and see if I can get some good steadycam type shots and any remaining jitter should be easily correctable with Mercalli in my NLE. I never really expected much from the mechanical stabiliser, just bought it as a cheap experiment, but looks like it may have come back into play. One advantage with it is that I can clamp it directly to my double tripod plate with camera attached, then just unclamp it for instant flying shots (If it works well enough).

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Hi Roger

Is that a hand held model of the Glide Gear you are using? I'm running a Weildy system with vest and dual arm and it now works with the FZ very well but I had to add a bunch of weight onto the top stage so the dual arm actually worked. I like the fact that a mechanical arm system has natural dampening so you get rather nice footage. However my stedicam use is restricted to an outdoor shoot with just the bride and groom wandering around the venue gardens doing roundie rounds etc etc.

I find my little U shaped rig and the foam grips either side keep the footage pretty stable so 90% of B-Cam stuff is done handheld rather than using a stabilise.

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Hi Chris,

Yes the stabiliser is this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/Glide-Gear-S...rds=glide+gear

The 3000 can take a bit more weight than the 500 & 1000 and it was bought as a first stabiliser to see if I could get used to it. It just wasn't great with my other cameras but seems to suit the FZ1000 well. I replaced the plastic gimbal with a chrome plated one for less than £5 off the internet, which made it much smoother. I'll be trying it in anger at next week's wedding where Claire will also be with me, so a bit more time for experimenting.

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

With this type of stabilizer you get what you pay for and I would not expect any fluid motion possible with it at all and forget about having decent pan and tilt controll, if you don't have experience flying a steadicam then a 3 axis gimbal which starts just below 500 dollar will give you much superior results.

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

A Beholder MS1 in the UK would set me back about £400 and at the moment is not something that I could justify the cost of for possible occasional use. The stabiliser I already have is very basic, but won't cost me a penny extra to play with, so I will try it and see what it does. Possibly nothing, but it will be interesting to see.

Thanks for the input,

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

I've owned a glidecam for several years but never gave it the time of day. I just never could get it balanced and frankly didn't miss the kind of shots it could give. It's only with the acquisition of the gimbal that I've begun to experiment with such shots and seen their value.

However using any stabiliser requires a great deal of practise in how you move and operate it. I've been using it on every Wedding in the last month but still feel I have so much to learn. Not that I'm not getting great shots, but it feels more random and that the gimbal is doing the hard work and not me. Perhaps that's the point of it, but I'd rather I was making some contribution to smooth looking shots.

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

I keep getting tempted to try to mod a smartphone active gimbal to take an RX100. Seems like it might be a good cheap "flying" option, and not too expensive. Eventually these 3 axis active systems will probably drop in price while becoming reliably stable, but so far I'm not sure about them! Somehow they seem like prototypes rushed into production...


I've tried various "passive" stabilizers, with mixed results, and a fair amount of time trying to make them reliable enough for "live" use... if I had time to set and repeat missed shots, maybe, but more stress than I prefer.

In the end, I've found I can get passable results by using my footed monopod with the right grip and "walk", not great, but I'm already on that "rig".

For handheld, I'm with Chris's "U shape" configuration (mini Fig Rig!), but using just a folding flash bracket on the left side, regular grip on the right for camera control - with a two hand grip, most of the objectionable wiggles (roll/pitch/yaw axis) are kept under control, and if you learn "the walk" (no bouncing!), and use your arms correctly, you can simulate a gimbal/steadi rig under many conditions. It's lightweight (less fatigue), cheap, effective, and better than just handheld. In my case, the Stratos folding bracket is so small, I can always stick one in even a tiny camera bag and have it when needed, I have a bunch of them I picked up cheap on ebay, so I usually have one stuck somewhere handy!

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

It depends what you plan on achieving with it, the fz1000 would in terms of weight be perfect for such a beholder, but there are more and more coming out in a pricerange between 500 to 1000 dollar. The footage I saw from Glide Gear users on youtube looked awefull but that is coming from someone who takes steadicam work serious :) The motion was all over the place and they each time ridiculed the Merlin, which has a similar design, for being so expensive. Only once they see how that merlin is build, the way you can finetune, and the quality of the used materials, in particular the gimbal, and what result it can have on the motion you are trying to achieve, only then they will understand why it's more expensive.

That's not to say you can't get anything decent out of the Glide Gear, with correct balancing you might get some usable shots out of it but it probably would be a constant frustration just to nail that one smooth move.

If you want to lift your productions to a higher level and want to include steadicam shots you are better off investing a little, practice a lot and get it right the first time.

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

I find exactly the same with my lightweight tripod, where I am so used to working with it that I can set the legs as a counterweight and get quite stable walking footage in conjunction with the excellent camera stabilization. That makes me think very carefully before investing in a comparatively expensive 3 axis gimbal that might just end up sitting in a cupboard.

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

A "steadicam solo" might be interesting as it combines a monopod and steadicam in one but not cheap either.

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Like a lot of onboard camera mics, the FZ1000 pics up a lot of mechanical noise from the camera, particularly when moving around with it. The image stabilization seeming to make a constant background chattering sound at quiet moments.

To get round this, I have many different mics for different occasions, ranging from 3 different Sony stereo mics, a couple of AT21s, Sure SM56 & SM58, a Rode studio vocal mic, radio mics, a handful of lavs and several cheap electret mics. The cheap electrets are hissy and none of the mics will mount on the camera without making it difficult or impossible to use the viewfinder because of the overhang. So I wanted something to put on the camera while I am walking around getting general shots. Sound quality needed to be useable without system noise, preferably stereo, but not necessarily to the quality needed for formal sound.

Having been very pleased with my Boya radio system, I came across a Boya electret mic for DSLR type cameras which seemed to have very good reviews. http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00RF3EIS...986871_TE_item
As it was a pretty silly price, I thought it worth a punt as I could always use it for something else of eBay it not much good. It arrived this morning, so I have been trying it out around the house and garden in comparison with the onboard mics.

It arrived nicely packaged and included an attached coiled connecting lead of sensible length with stereo 3.5mm plug, foam windshield (that all camera mics seem to come with and are useless), and a rather useful looking dead cat windshield, plus a soft mic bag. The mic takes one AAA battery and has a switch and power on light. The build is plasticky as you would expect with a normal hot shoe connection and locking ring. The body of the mic is permanently connected to the mount via four flexible rubber legs for shock absorbing.

First tests showed that the mic didn't impede on using the viewfinder, which was one of the main reasons for getting it. It wobbled about a bit on the rubber legs, but they were unexpectedly good at cutting handling and camera noise. The mic was quiet in operation and frequency range seems initially wide, picking up top end well but also a nice bass end on voice. The foam windshield behaved as expected i.e. poorly, but the dead cat was extremely efficient at killing all wind noise. I can put up with the very pale and obvious couloured fluff if it going to be that efficient.

Yet to be tried at a wedding in anger, but first thoughts are that it is going to do exactly what I bought it to do. That is walking around handheld shots, cutting out wind and handling noise and not obstructing the viewfinder or screen, while giving a reasonable sound quality.

It won't satisfy the officianados, it's cheap and cheerful, but it performs above it's price level, doesn't matter if it gets lost or broken and if it is as reliable as the Boya radio system I will be well satisfied.

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

I should add that the Boya mic comes with a stereo 3.5 mm plug and lead, but is a mono unidirectional mic. Suits my needs for general sound pickup but not if you want stereo sound for general shooting.

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Thanks Roger, I'm after a mic for my camera too and was thinking of the videomic pro r

The Boya as you say, might be worth a try.


Thank you.

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

The Rode is a very nice mic and will use far better components and construction than the Boya, but I didn't want to spen that much on a mic for occasional use at the moment, just wanted to improve on what the onboard mic does. The Boya looks like a cheap copy of the Rode, but I'll see what I get from it in a wedding environment.

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Thanks Roger, time will tell :)

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

I find this a particularly good mic - good sound and well made

Nikon me1 - been using it with my A7s for about 6 months now

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Thanks Peter, must have a look at it on youtube.

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

Looks like another good option Pete, thing is I'm not even sure that I need that sort of mic at the moment which is why I bought the Boya first to see how I get on with it. If I use it a lot and it makes a noticeable difference I may well upgrade to a better mic.

Roger

Re: LUMIX FZ1000 user update
 

What i like about the nikon is that you can mount it on your hot shoe and still use the viewfinder - unlike the rode that protudes from the back