Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

I've been getting inquiries asking if I shoot portraits. Since the GH2 is the only still camera I own, I'm wondering how the GH2 would compare with the Canon 5Dmkii for taking portrait photographs. I know some of you own both.

Would the 5D offer a noticeable improvement in quality over the GH2 for still/portrait photography in a controlled studio environment ?

Advice appreciated,
Jeff Hinson

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

I think you really want a MkII Jeff. <Grin>

To answer your question, yes it would make a big difference.
That's what the MKII is best at IMO.

I sold mine because I simply didn't use it enough to justify keeping it. IMO, the video out of it was softer than the 7D but the stills were much better.

You need good portrait glass and lighting is a must for good portrait work but the camera is the base unit.
This gets argued a little but the higher megapixels makes a much sharper image even at normal size portraits and it's a huge advantage for reception work where the images will need to be cropped, sometimes pretty hard.

It looks like weddings are your strong suit so I'd say if it's in your budget, go for it.

The price on the MkII is coming down now and it's probably a good time to buy a used one.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

_______________________________________________________________________

haha....how did you know that ? Like we don't want every camera and accessory made. ha

Thanks for the info, I assumed it would be better. I purchased initially the Sony Nex 5N...took great pics, but over heated when taking video. Sold that to buy the GH2 for video...should have kept the 5N for stills. Oh well it's only money.
I will be looking for a "used" 5D...if you hear of one please let me know. Im always reluctant to buy used, but have always had good luck buying/selling to/from DVinfo forum members.

Jeff

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Don has already answered this, but just to reiterate, these cameras are in different leagues for still performance (of course, video is another story, where as we all know the Gh2 punches well above its weight).

I love the convenience of the Gh2 as a lightweight camera you can take anywhere, but the 5D2 trounces it for still image quality, particularly portraiture, where there's a substantial gulf in all areas: colour accuracy, ISO/noise performance, resolving power, handling/build quality, depth of field control.

You will need a couple of good primes though - the 85 1.8 would be a great start, ideal for portraiture.

In short, yes, you will notice a very substantial improvement in image quality when shooting stills.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

thanks Josh....

I really want a 5D....the GH2 as you said, works great as a video cam. Im starting to enjoy portrait photography and have learned a lot using the GH2...my first experience since 35mm film days.

If you or anyone knows of someone wanting to move up to the 5Dmk3, I'd like to buy their old 5Dmk2.

Thanks for posting,
Jeff

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

The 5DII and Gh2 actually complement each other rather well - they have such different strengths.

For low light jobs or when you want a pretty full frame look, you'll find yourself using the 5DII for video. When moire is a potential issue, or when you want to capture detail, the Gh2 is the better choice.

And for stills, the 5DII is a professional camera with the potential to deliver truly spectacular results. But, there's a caveat: with a couple of lenses it can be a beast to carry around, so you have to consider whether you're going to use it before you leave the house... when I'm going for a walk to town I don't generally take the 5DII. Whereas the Gh2 (and m43 lenses especially!) is such a featherweight you end up putting it in your bag and using it opportunistically, just because it's there.

I hope you find yourself a good body. Good luck!

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Yes...I agree Josh.
Coming from tugging large video cams around, I fell in love with using DSLRs...then got hooked on photos more than video....
My first experience was with the Sony 5N...I was so impressed I bought one and some lenses not knowing the "time limit" on shooting video. Sold it, bought the GH2 because of no video limitation. So, Ive had a very expensive learning curve....but this is not the first time. haha

With the advice of this forum I think Ive finally found what I want. My arsenal will include the Canon XA10, the GH2, and when I win the lottery, I will get the Canon 5Dmk2 or 3.

I may be divorced over this, but what the heck....we only go through once right. ha

Thanks for the comments,
Jeff

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

What sort of portraits? The GH2 can take amazing portraits, portraits generally don't look best super sharp, not everyone wants every pore showing. I have a really good DSLR (Nikon D3 S) but sometimes elect to use a GH2 with Nikon lenses for 1) really low light: my 85 1.8 Nikon is now a 170 @1.8 2) My 35 2.0 gives a beautiful image as a 70 equivalent.
GH2= a lot smaller and less intimidating, swing out LCD really handy at odd angles, much quieter
Big DSLR= Much quicker focusing and frame rate, better interaction with studio flash.
This is a series I did of jazz musicians all with a GH2 at high ISO's in dark places. Over 10,000 calendars were made and 16X20 prints made and sold. I recieved nothing but praise, not one "you should have used a different camera" Link: Detroit Michigan Jazz Musicians

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Roy,
Im sure it's my lack of experience in using the GH2 that I havent arrived at pro level yet. That's why Im continuing to use it and will keep it even though I may pick up a used 5d2.

Ive taken what "I" consider good portrait here in the studio.

Thanks for the input,
Jeff

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Question for those taking photographs with the GH2...

Im using Corel PaintShop Pro 4 to edit photos (cheaper than PhotoShop). I want to be able to shoot photos for 8x10, 5x7, and billfold size combo packages for schools churches etc.

Will the 16x9 ratio setting on the GH2 allow cropping to all formats, or should I use the "aspect bracket" function to cover them all ? Which do you suggest I use for each size photo?

PS4 is not real user friendly. It defaults to saving my high rez jpegs or raw to small jpeg files. Im assuming the larger the file, the better the photo will look when printed. Im thinking large file equals hi resolution ??

Thanks,
Jeff

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Jeff, I think the end display should be a big factor in your decision making. Are the stills for billboards, or a high quality coffee table art book or large gallery prints. If not, the most important factor in a good still is "the moment" not the pixel count. Plenty of good stills around that don't have pin-sharp resolution. You have a GH2 that you're comfortable with, then stick with it and maybe buy an accessory or two for that. There are very few of us that could tell the difference between a 5D Mk2 print and a GH2, but plenty of us that can tell you whether the shot works on a creative level.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Chris
Money I don't got, but creative I is
Thanks for your post

Jeff

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

You might be suffering from GAS!!! (Gear Acquisition Syndrome)

:-)

i'd say the glass is much more important than the camera, i dont know what the crop factor is on this camera but if you can get, as already mentioned a lens that will be in or around the 85mm mark with the field of view factored in, this is a good range for portraits, I use a Canon 1DS Mk 3 with a 24 -70mm or sometimes a 70 - 200 mm and yes the full frame is a big difference but before i had FF i could get pretty good results from crop cameras.

If you could afford Adobe Lightroom 4, its really good for stills.

R

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

I do have three lenses...zoom 14-140 kit, a 25mm 1.4(50mm equiv on the GH2) and an old 50mm 2.0 Pentax k lens (100mm equiv on the GH2). I find myself using the 25mm most of the time.

My GH2 attemps at portraits.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/members/...portraits.html
thanks for the advice,
Jeff

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Rob, I think I do have GAS!!
I just looked at your 1DS MkIII price on B&H...so I don't think Im the only one that has GAS. haha
Wow, looks like a great camera. If I win the lottery, Id like to have one.

Jeff

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Nice pics on your link - like the lighting as well.
Who needs a 5D...??

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Thanks Chris!
Can't afford a 5D anyway : ? )

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

ha ha yeah i've got GAS for a long time now!!
Great camera ok even tho it wont take video, everything else i own does, even my phone :-)
considered the 5D II when it came out but got a 7D as a alternative. I'd rather get a new EF 85mm f/1.2 L II lens than a new camera at present although that wont happen unless fortune smiles on me.

btw like the portraits - good job

R

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Rob,
Haha.....I would say everyone on this forum has GAS at one level or the other. Just too many gadgets out there to wet our whistle.

Im trying to wait 30 days before making any sizable purchases...maybe by then I will have talked myself out of it. ha.

I think the best thing for me is to keep the GH2, learn how to use "it" first. By next year I should know how to take photographs and how to effectively use a DSLR.
Maybe the 5Dmk2 or 3 will be my next cam.

Im OK for video now with my little canon XA10 and the GH2.

Thanks for the kudos on the pics....

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Jeff, two things pop out at me on these. You seem to be using "broad" lighting on most, this kind of lighting will tend to draw attention to full round faces. Remember the old saying "the camera adds weight"?

Well, it's not the camera, it's the lighting. Do a Google search on "short" lighting and on "broad" lighting and study any samples images shown. I used to be able to take the appearance of 60lbs or more off some really heavy folks with a combination of camera angle and "short" lighting.

The other thing is what looks like over reliance on black background. Sometimes that treatment is called for and it does at first glance seem to make the subject "pop". But some of best done studio portraits have always had a "background presence". A "controllable" background light can make a big difference here. "Dialing down" the power prevents "blasting" the background with light. The idea is to put just enough light on the background to work with the lighting mood you're trying to create.

Just some ideas that may help you.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Bruce,
Thanks so much for the tips, and I will do the google search on short lighting.

The samples I posted were mainly shots of my music students. I used the black background on all so that they would all have the same look....which was intentional. Ive now have a couple of different muslin backgrounds I can use. Ive yet to try all white...which Im sure will offer some other challenges. My problem is getting someone to set for hours while I adjust light. ha My friend suggested a manikin would be helpful.

You're correct I only used broad lighting. I have two broad light boxes, each using a 500 watt photo lamp. I got those with a green screen kit I ordered...really cheap. I also have a reflector to experiment with for fill, since I have no flash units except the one on the GH2. I have no idea yet how to control the flash yet.

Anyways, Im having fun learning using the GH2 in full manual using my 3 lenses and editing the pics in post software. (PaintShop Pro 4, and SilkyPix)

Again, thank you for the tips.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Broad lighting in portraiture is totally different from "broad light boxes".

Imagine a vertical line from the top of the forehead, down the bridge and tip of the nose, and continuing down across the center of the lips down to the point of the chin. This line bisects the face into two identical halves (well somewhat identical as features can often be not symmetrical).

Now turn the face slightly away from the camera (about 30 degrees, no more). The side of the face towards the camera is now broader in aspect than the side on the other side of the nose. Light the face from the "broad" side and you have "broad" lighting and this tends to make the face (and the person) look "heavier".

But light from the other side (which is "shorter"), and you draw the viewer's eye away from the broad side of the face and towards what now appears to be a "slimmer" view of the face. In many cases you have taken the appearance of some "weight" off the person.

In most cases you won't want the light to "divide" the face right at that line, you want a bit of light to "spill" over the nose (from higher than the person's head) to create a triangular highlight on the cheek of the "broad" side, with the nose shadow just hitting the corner of the mouth.

This creates a pattern on the face very close to the "Rembrandt" look.

On the other hand, "broad" lighting is often appropriate for folks with a rather "gaunt" look.

Your light boxes should work very well for what I've described above. Part of the key is to use the "main" or "key" (the one that establishes lighting direction) light in fairly close, you'll get good lighting "wraparound" and very soft edged shadows.

The one you use for "fill" should be as close to the camera axis as you can manage.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Jeff, here's a bit more on lighting that should help you.

The "fill" light (from as close to the camera axis as you can manage) establishes minimum scene brightness, and should provide a "gentle wash" of light across the whole scene. It should be:

1. Non directional (cast no shadows of it's own)

2. Non specular (should be a broad soft light)

3. Non evident. Casting no shadows, once other lights are added you should see no real evidence of it's use, except that there are no deep shadows.

The fill light should provide minimum barely printable exposure. A picture done with only a "fill" light will look very flat and be unexciting.

The "main" light (or "key" light) establishes lighting direction and adds a bit of dimension to the picture. It should be roughly 1 stop to 1 and a half stops stronger (brighter) than the "fill" and together this will give a 2:1 lighting ratio or so. This works well for most portraiture.

Now, once I established the working distances for these two lights that gave me a good working ratio and good exposure, I tied strings to the lights with a knot tied at just the distance that gave the desired results.

So with the subject seated in front of the camera all I had to do was hold the string on the "fill" out to the subject to insure proper distance (drop that string), move the "main" light around the subject until I had the desired pattern effect, use it's string to move the light in or out to proper distance (I often used this light at 3 to 4 feet) and "done".

No fiddling around, once you know what you want to "see" on the face it only takes seconds.

Hope this helps.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Thanks so much Bruce....

haha....prior to your last post, I did google broad and short lighting techniques.
I had thought the term "short" light meant "spot" light haha.

So now, thanks to you, Im straight and glad to hear I don't have to buy more lights. ha.

Im wondering if I should purchase a light meter rather than use the GH2 meter. The Sekonic L-308DC seems a good choice for my budget since it is designed for both video and photography.

Have a great Sunday,

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Yep, you learn something every day. Going to give the broad lighting a go on "weight-challenged" subjects. Nice tip - thx.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

What I learned Chris...is that I'm glad I don't do weddings.
They are great tips Bruce!

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Until someone shares that info with us or we get it in a workshop/class/article we don't know these things. I'm glad that info can help you.

In looking at the B&H description on that model it works with fps, shutter angle, and some other things related to film motion picture and not needed for video. The colored models of the 308 cost less, still have some cine features but I'd be tempted to go just a tad more than the 308DC and look at the L-358 for only $30 more.

I've just had my GH2 for a few weeks and so far it looks like the built in meter is pretty accurate, but I'll see. I just TODAY found my old Sekonic L-28c, selenium cell incident meter based on the old 1950's Norwood Director. I bought it on the way back from VietNam in 1970, kind of as a reward to myself for surviving a combat tour. It served me well over several decades as the medium format cameras I used for weddings and location portraiture had no built in meters.

It never let me down. Had a hemispherical "collector" to simulate 3 dimensional subjects, a flat white disk for measuring lighting contrast and ratio's, and a "Lumigrid" for reflected light readings. It seems to work but I'll have to start testing it tomorrow to see if it is still accurate after 41 1/2 years.

I did. Showed off my GH2 at our photo club meeting Sat morning and one of the guys managed to "reconfigure" the danged thing. Took me about an hour of "fumbling" through menus but I finally got my configuration back.

In answer to your original question, try using your GH2 for portrait work. Not a thing wrong with it. I have a Canon 60D, Olympus Pen e-P3, and the GH2; I wouldn't hesitate to use any one of them. It's the artist makes the portrait.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Nice post Bruce,
Thanks for the info.

Seems we are about the same age. I got out of the Army in '69. I taught fire control systems for Nike Hercules and Hawk Missile during a 3yr tour at Ft. Bliss. Some of the best pics Ive taken was with a Yashica 35mm (sp) viewfinder cam I bought for $15 at a post "thrift store".

I will check out the light meter you suggested. Im sure there's not much difference between the light meter and the on cam meter, but Id like to check it out anyway...should learn something by fiddling with it.

Have a great week, and thanks again for the post,
Jeff

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

I'd recommend a light meter for portrait work also Jeff. I don't use one for video because I rarely have time to adjust much, but stills are different.

Borrow a meter some time, take readings on the camera and then put your light meter under the subjects chin. You'll be surprised.

FWIW I'm still using my 60's light meter too. Light's Light!

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

@ DON...

Im ordering one tomorrow...will be interesting comparing the two meters.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

GRAND DAUGHTER ON HALLOWEEN....

Taken with my GH2
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/members/...halloween.html

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

I use the Canon 5D Mk2 but I expect the new GH3 will also be very good for stills (combined with video of course).

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Tony...
Yeah, Ive been torn for months trying to decide to stay with the GH2/3 or splurge for a 5DmkII.
My small business needs both stills and video...plus some multicam shoots.....in which "matching" cams saves a lot of post work.

Considering the difference in price, I will probably stay with the GH line, and most likely the GH2s, with the FlowMotion hack/patch. Ive delivered up to 16x20s taken with the GH2 and they look nice. All of the stills in my portrait section were with the GH2....although downsized for this forum.

Waiting for the verdict on the GH3.

Thanks for the post,
Jeff

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Looks like Panasonic has done a lot to improve still performance with the - to some small degree at the expense of video performance:

"Like the Olympus OM-D E-M5, stills are an improvement on the GH2 and colour is now right up there with the Canon 7D. Especially in terms of noise in raw format and colour balance, the is a winner. The improved colour, smoother tones and wider dynamic range are to the benefit of the video mode too. Reduced are the halos around bright light sources and the banding of gradation between subtle shades. There’s now a smoother transition between different shades and tones in both stills and movie mode..."

And: "Uematsu-san replied that the only surefire way to reduce moire was to read-out all pixels and oversample. He said it was preferable to reduce the pixel count to 4K (8MP). 10MP was also a good number. He cited the Aptina sensor in the Nikon 1 as capable of reading out all pixels at a frame rate fast enough for video and the Canon C300′s sensor design where each RGB photosite is output and moire is reduced. With the 16MP sensor in the , this would be a tall order especially given the price point which is 1/12th of Canon’s C300, and they are not willing to compromise resolution in stills mode down to just 10MP either. This is totally understandable. But Uematsu-san also hinted at a weaker anti-aliasing filter in our conversations. This results in sharper stills but more aliasing in video mode."

Can't wait to get my hands on this camera!

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Great info Bill!
Thanks
Jeff

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Hi Jeff, I must concur that the 5DmKII is a much better choice for still photos of any kind. Two of my friends have one and the results are superb. I must also concur with the opinion that it does well when shooting video when moire and maximum sharpness aren't an issue. A co-worker shot an indoor natural light interview and the color rendering was superb.

Having said that, you may also want to consider Nikon. I use the D7000 at work for shooting product photos and have played with it a bit on the weekends shooting friends and family. I used the D7000 with a 60's-vintage Nikon 105mm f2.5 portrait lens that I purchased for my GH1 and the results with the D7000 were stunning. I can't really describe it, but the images just had a visual quality that I've seen but have never been able to achieve.

In my (much) younger days I shot some portraits with my Olympus and with my Mamiya RB67 medium format camera but never came close to the look of the D7000/105 f2.5. I paid $95 for the lens at a local camera store the specializes in vintage equipment, and I chose this lens over the newer (circa 1980's)_ version because the older brownish/yellow lens coating rendered significantly better skin tones on my GH1.

Having used both, I feel that Canon and Nikon are both excellent. Canon is great for sports and for mixed lighting conditions when manual white balancing isn't practical (Canon's AWB is excellent). But for the type of work you are doing I would recommend taking a look at Nikon. Lens choice is everything and Nikon cameras (mid-level and above, not the 3000/5000 series) fully support vintage lenses that are both excellent and inexpensive.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

The funny thing is, Canon DSLR's have the better support for older Nikon vintage lenses. Most Nikon DSLR's have a metering prong that will be crushed by many vintage Nikon lenses when you attempt to mount them. The only solution for those lenses, is to actually grind the back of the lens down so that it won't do that.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Good point, thanks for bringing this up. The lens I purchased had already been modified and I should have mentioned that. This gentleman can convert older non-ai lenses to work with current DSLRs for about $35: Prices and Shipping (Type B conversion)

D7000 and higher bodies support non-CPU lenses, so a modded lens will stay at its maximum aperture for focusing and metering and stop down automatically when a picture is taken. I was also able to use the camera in Aperture-priority exposure mode, so basically the only loss is auto-focus.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Little late to the party but just in case anyone is wondering about the potential of the GH2 for stills, you can view a series of corp portraits I shot with one of my GH2's with an old Sigma APO 70-210/2.8 that will stack up well against anything from any camera out there IMO at this site:

Capital Investment Services

Click on the download JPEG artwork link in the middle of the page for a hi rez image. These were shot outside the office suite in a common area of the building (everything full manual). I'm currently developing this website for this client and not all sections are quite ready yet. Used a couple of Nikon speedlights. Virtually untouched - just a bit of color grading in Bridge and some dirt removal from the suit jacket in Photoshop.

Re: Portraits: Use GH2 or purchase 5Dmkii ?
 

Nice Portrait...thanks for sharing.
jeff