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-   Panasonic LUMIX S / G / GF / GH / GX Series (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-lumix-s-g-gf-gh-gx-series/)
-   -   72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB) (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-lumix-s-g-gf-gh-gx-series/520139-72-mbps-all-intra-50-mbps-ipb.html)

Nigel Barker November 30th, 2013 11:03 AM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
Alex, don't you know that the Sony RX10 is the new hot camera? There are some good reports and sample videos from users over on Sony - General / Other

Alex Anderson November 30th, 2013 11:11 AM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
Nigel, I was just reading about it this morning. Interesting. HDMI uncompressed 8 bit 422 is good for ext recording. Also, the Carl Zeiss 24-200mm f/2.8 Lens (35mm Eq) is nice.

Noa Put November 30th, 2013 11:13 AM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
Eventhough it's still a rumor I don't expect it to be in the 1k range like the gh3 but more around 3k, also don't think it will be the gh3 successor but a start of new line of 4k camera's. But back to reality, I can join your club as well now as I today sold my sony nex-ea50 including lenses, wasn't planning to do so but was contacted by someone who was going to buy a new ea50 and I offered mine :) I still think it was a great camera but it proved to be too large to carry around all day at a wedding and was used less and less the past months so I gave it up. So, that makes 2 of us looking for a general small workhorse. :)

Alex Anderson November 30th, 2013 11:37 AM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
I agree, a new 4k cam to compete with the new BM 4k soon to be released.

Nigel Barker December 1st, 2013 09:11 AM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Anderson (Post 1822725)
Nigel, I was just reading about it this morning. Interesting. HDMI uncompressed 8 bit 422 is good for ext recording. Also, the Carl Zeiss 24-200mm f/2.8 Lens (35mm Eq) is nice.

It looks like with Sony's "Clear Image Zoom" that we can regard that as a 24-400mm f/2.8 Lens

CIZ is not the same as the 2X crop mode of the MFT cameras that uses the central 1920x1080 portion of the sensor but nor is it just a digital zoom. Sony claim some clever algorithm is used & the results certainly look extremely good.

Noa Put December 1st, 2013 09:17 AM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
I was also surprised how sharp Sony's "Clear Image Zoom" looks, you do seem some slight resolution loss but not on the same level like the digital zoom on the nex-ea50, I have been using the etc mode on the panasonic g6 more then once with usable footage, the way it looks now that will apply to the rx10 as well.

Leon Kolenda January 15th, 2014 12:53 AM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1822726)
Eventhough it's still a rumor I don't expect it to be in the 1k range like the gh3 but more around 3k, also don't think it will be the gh3 successor but a start of new line of 4k camera's. But back to reality, I can join your club as well now as I today sold my sony nex-ea50 including lenses, wasn't planning to do so but was contacted by someone who was going to buy a new ea50 and I offered mine :) I still think it was a great camera but it proved to be too large to carry around all day at a wedding and was used less and less the past months so I gave it up. So, that makes 2 of us looking for a general small workhorse. :)

I'm needing to sell a Sony VG-20 and a 18-200 mm lens. Where is the best place to sell gear I tried, craigs list for local, but I live in a beach town.

Noa Put January 15th, 2014 03:16 AM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
Don't ask me, I live on the other side of the globe :) Isn't there a category on this site where you can sell your gear?

Cees van Kempen January 15th, 2014 07:01 AM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Anderson (Post 1822710)
thanks to everyone posting. Can anyone explain exactly why the 50 seems to be the popular choice than the 72? Technical reasons? My first thought was the 72 was going to be better with the higher bitrate and the single frames for editing.

72 Mb/s is an Intra-Frame codec, meaning all the information of a specific frame is stored in the frame itself. 50 Mb/s is a Inter-Frame codec, meaning that a group of frames is sharing information. This is a more complex structure, requiring more powerful software to deal with it on your computer. But it is more efficient, delivers higher quality at lower bit rates.

50 Mb/s is considered 'broadcast approved'. But this is only for Inter-Frame or LongGOP codecs. For Intra-Frame codecs I believe you can't go below 100 Mb/s for broadcast approval. So the 50Mb/s codec would fit, the 72 Mb/s would not. (Of course there are also other requirements to get a camera broadcast approved. Just making clear that the numbers 50 and 72 don't tell the whole story.)

Noa Put January 15th, 2014 08:15 AM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
That's not the main reason why users choose 50mb ipb over 72mb all intra, the 72mb all intra is supposed to be more noisier on the gh3 so how strange it might sound, it's a worse quality then the 50mb ipb codec, I haven't tested it but seen a few users reporting it.

Heri Rakotomalala January 15th, 2014 10:02 AM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
For 24p, I have tested both and 50Mbps looks much better

For 60p it's hard to say. For action scenes, I find 72 Mbps is better

Cees van Kempen January 15th, 2014 12:05 PM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1827903)
That's not the main reason why users choose 50mb ipb over 72mb all intra, the 72mb all intra is supposed to be more noisier on the gh3 so how strange it might sound, it's a worse quality then the 50mb ipb codec, I haven't tested it but seen a few users reporting it.

You are right. But it is noisier because it is a less efficient codec and that's just what I tried to explain.

Thomas Smet January 15th, 2014 01:02 PM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
The whole point of formats like H264 and mpeg2 is the motion prediction where certain parts of the frame that do not chnage can be shared between frames. This allows the total bitrate to be lower because 50mbps IPB can have the same quality as an I frame format with 100+Mbps.

The reason why 72mbps has more noise is because it is seriously bit starved. This is what happens with formats based on DCT compression. Think of jpeg images that have too much compression. They start to get a bit noisier. You really start to notice it when the frames are in motion.

On the hacked GH2 we would sometimes use I frame only recording and we would typically use around 200mbps. That is a pretty big difference in bitrate and it really made a difference. As cool as the 72mbps mode sounds it is really a bad implementation right now. Hopefully in the future the GH3 will get hacked so we can bump up the bitrate to at least 100mbps. Personally I would rather see 150-200mbps.

Noa Put January 15th, 2014 01:21 PM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cees van Kempen (Post 1827947)
that's just what I tried to explain.

I misread your comment and see now you where referring to the ipb codec as the more efficient one.

William Hohauser January 15th, 2014 04:23 PM

Re: 72 Mbps (ALL-Intra) or 50 Mbps (IPB)
 
While on paper it would seem that 72 would provide a better image in 24p (3Mbp per frame versus 2.08Mbp per frame), since 50 is adaptive compression, on a tripod set shot with moderate motion (an interview), the camera can actually record an image that is a virtual 3Mbp (or higher) per frame as more detail can be saved in the parts of the frame that are not changing without going over the recording limit of 50Mbps. In 60p the same probably applies, although I have not tested it. However, if you are shooting action or active hand held, 72 might end up being the better choice. It pays to test it out, a lot of compression artifacts are not visible to eye until the video is freeze framed or the viewer is very close to the screen.


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