if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Hi there,
I came to this game late in life. Worked for most of my career as a director and wasn't even allowed to touch the camera gear (o.k., I was 'allowed' to carry the tripod); then I was laid off seven years ago and had to reinvent myself. I rented a camera, taught myself to shoot and edit, managed to make a go of things and then bought a Sony EX1 (I now have a Sony PMW-200). Learning to use a camera in all manual mode was difficult, and I still struggle with things sometimes when I'm shooting under pressure, on-the-fly (luckily I'm the person who edits the stuff that I shoot, so I'm forgiving). I do videos for NGOs whose cause I like, and short and longer documentaries when I manage to piece together a shoestring budget, and other things, and I really do enjoy it. Recently my daughter asked me to shoot a music video for her and of course I couldn't say no.
Particularly after shooting the video for my daughter, I've been thinking about getting a Panasonic GH4 so I can get a softer out-of-focus look for some of my interviews and visuals (for certain projects anyway). The GH4 appeals partly because it records a file type that works nicely for editing (I don't like AVCHD). But when I googled the question of lenses for micro Four Third lenses, I realized I didn't even know where to begin.

So... in case anyone's willing. I'd like a lens that lets in lots of light, and one that might permit me to use auto-focus (something I don't do with my PMW-200, but I'm hoping the GH4 might have a really good auto-focus system). I like to shoot a lot of stuff hand-held, and I like to move when I shoot. So I think a nice wide-angle would best suit my style. I don't really mind not being able to zoom (if I want a tighter shot I'll walk closer), but image-stabilization would be good. I need to be able to seamlessly change exposure as I move around.
Yours hopefully,
Malcolm

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Panasonic 12-35mm F/2.8 is the single lens I would choose.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Thank you Jeff... I just read some on-line reviews from GH users, and this kind of thing—"Fast, quiet AF. Compact, unobtrusive size is welcome for shooting documentary style"—seemed to sum it up for a lot of reviewers.
I appreciate the advice...
Malcolm

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

That lens doesn't have stepless exposurechanges, non of the m4/3 mount panasonic or Olympus lenzes do.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

I would buy a Voigtlander 17,5 mm 0,95 lens. I have it already but now just waiting for the GH4..

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

That lens doesn't have stabilization or autofocus, just saying as it was a requested feature.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

I know you can't judge simply by reviews, but the Voigtlander that you recommend, Bo, gets amazing reviews.
It's true, I'd asked for image stabilization and autofocus, but...
I've learned, over the last few years, to move my camera when something in the shot gives me a reason to move—and if something in frame is moving then any less-than-steadicam-like movement on my part somehow seems natural, or at least, it's never been a problem for me. Maybe I can live without image stabilization.
And I have gotten used to manually focussing and manually changing the iris and all of that. Do I sometimes get some soft-focus shots? Yes, but it's not so much a problem when I'm zoomed right out, on a wide shot (image stabilization also isn't as much of an issue when I'm wide like this). So... maybe I can live without autofocus?
You've got me wondering.
thanks for the input and advice,
Malcolm

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Question: would you be able to use the GH4's peaking feature with the Voigtlander lens?

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

I would get the 35-100 over the 12-35. It had been the lens on my GH3/4 the vast majority of the time.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

You have to get a lens with image stabilization for hand-held in any GH series camera. The Voigtlander is a great lens, possibly the best in it class for the GH cameras, but you'll have great difficulty keeping the camera from shaking in motion filming. Hand-held with that lens is possible with a viewfinder loupe or a camera rig. These are the extras you'll have to consider when switching from a video camera designed for hand-held to a still camera form that takes great video. As for a lens, the 12-35 is the way to go. I wish I had one.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

I shoot the exact same stuff as you internationally. I have an EX1R and I used a GH3 as a B-cam with the 12-35 f2.8 and the 20mm f1.7 II. I had a 5DM2 before that and a TM700 before that.

Getting a nice bokeh on the MFT sensor is something you need to work at using the 12-35. I typically got lots of nice images but with deep DOF (even at 2.8) unless I worked it hard like you would a camcorder. Not as easy as a 5DM2 with full size sensor. The 20mm f1.7 on the other hand delivers them easily.

The touch screen focus makes fast moving filming easier for a DSLR but you will like the GH4 peaking I think. Especially outside. Ditto the zebras for exposure.

It was more difficult to match the GH3 to the EX1R. The 5DM2 was a better match. Forget about the TM700. YMMV

I was fed up with the GH3 ergonomic problems and lack of fixes by Panasonic. Be prepared for that as they roll off developers to the next product.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

I use 12-35 and 35-100. Both are great lenses but if I had to chose one it would be the 12-35. Wide without distorting, but also good for interviews (especially in small spaces). Both are f2.8 throughout the focal length (the GH4 is good in low light so this speed is adequate). The built in image stabilization works really well. You can shoot fully manual or use the auto functions on the GH4. These lenses are quite sharp but do not have the same character as older glass; excellent for run and gun documentary.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

All the containers used by the GH4 deliver h.264 compression in different levels. If you're using a last generation NLE (FCP7 I'm looking at you) you may find that you need to transcode even when shooting a .MOV container.

Fran

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Yes - it works with manual or auto lenses.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

When I was a kid we had slide shows. My dad shot slide negative. Recently we had a slide show. We haven't had one in 20 years. We showed slides from the mid 70s. My dad shot on one lens and one lens only. A 50mm. On the GH4 that would be this lens: H-X025

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

On the GH4? Was this 8mm? It's 16x smaller than 35mm film.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

I thought a 25mm lens would be 50mm on the GH4.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

I don't think f/2.8 is fast enough for m43 cams. I have found my go to lens is the Olympus 17mm f/1.8. If I could only have one lens, that or the soon to be released Panasonic 15mm f/1.7 would be my choice.

You can run it on a stabilizer, bring it in super close without much distortion and hit ETC to give an additional focal length. It's an equivalent focal length of 34mm at 1080, 40mm at 4k and 82mm in ETC on the GH4.

The ability to use 3 times the light of an f/2.8 with a manageable depth of field to keep focus is the forte of the m43 system.

I've added a frame from video on my G6 with the 17mm as a reference for the kind of image this type of lens can create.

Cheers,
Pete

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

I use a Olympus 12mm f2.0 lens on my stabilizer in combination with a g6, great lens, focuses superfast and very accurate, the difference between a f2.8 and f2.0 lens is quite noticeable and the dof is still managable, on a full framelens at f2.0 keeping focus on a steadicam would not be an easy task.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

25mm with GH4 2.3x 4K crop has the full frame eqiv FOV of a 57.5mm lens on a full frame camera like my VG900 camcorder. Here is a Voigtländer Nokton 25mm f/0.95 close focus test on my GH4 in 4K I shot today :

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Hi all,
Thank you so much for the advice. I've been out of town for a few days but have now been able to connect to the internet, get this feedback, and make some notes.
A couple of quick questions, in case people are still interested in this thread.
Pete—you say (regarding your camera with the Olympus 17mm/f1.8 lens) that you "run it on a stabilizer", and Noa, you say you use your Olympus 12mm/f2.0 "on my stabilizer".
Are you two talking about the in-camera (or in-lens) stabilization, or are you using some sort of steadicam device as a stabilizer?
Also—Pete, I've googled the soon-to-be-released Panasonic 15mm/f1.7. Is it cheaper than the 12-35mm/f2.8 just because it's not a zoom, or are there other features it won't have?
Thanks again,
Malcolm

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Yes, I run the 17mm f/1.8 on a jib pole stabilizer I've been developing. The 17mm creates an amazing image when in motion like you get with a steadicam.

The 15mm is less expensive due to being a much simpler design. Zooms add a lot of glass and mechanical functions, but are not as fast and generally speaking not as pleasing an image to me. Obviously the 12-35 and 35-100 zooms are incredible lenses, but if I could only have one it would be something I could do more with. A lens like the 25mm f/1.4 gives 4 times the light gathering of the f/2.8 zooms. It's just such a crazy advantage for creativity and versatility. The only advantage of the zooms is to have multiple perspectives in one lens. I find I can cover many of the perspectives by simply moving closer or further away with a wider lens. If are shooting in 1080 mode the ETC function really doubles down what you can capture with these new Panasonic cams.

To be able to shoot low light, landscape, portrait and moving action all with one fast lens is such an advantage. There really is no other system and body that can do what the GH4 can do with one fast wide like the 15 or 17mm.

Cheers,
Pete

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

I use my 12mm on a blackbird steadicam, you write you have used a ex1 and now have a pmw200 so if I understand right you don't have any experience with shooting a dslr?

I think you still think to much in terms of a regular videocamera, allthough the gh4 will give some features that are found back on real videocamera's it will still be very limited in use and functionality to what you are used to with your pmw200. Autofocus would not be nearly as good as on a videocamera, a powerzoom is non exsisting so you need to zoom manually but it will be not smooth at all, nd filtyer will be missing so you will have to use a screw on filter which you need to take off inside, exposure cannot be changed stepless, unless you get a Samyang cinelens but you"ll loose autofocus and stabilisation, I think a speedbooster with a all manual lens could be a option to get stepless exposurechanges but not that sure about that.
You will also notice stabilisation is a must if you shoot handheld and while you could use a 25mm prime lens handheld you will get jitters in your image, unless you use a Omympus omd series that has incamera stabilization but that camera has a weak and very limited codecs, any lens with a longer focal range that is not stabilized will be virtually impossible to get smooth looking images out of it handheld.
You will need to find workarounds for good audio because in camera audio moslty sucks on dslr's, there are probably some more limitations compared to videocamera's if I think about it but in any way, expect a a big change in the way you are used to operate your real videocamera's.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

If I had to get just one lens it would be the 12-35mm f2.8.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Pete—the main points that I take away from your posts are that a fast lens (for example, the Panasonic 15mm f/1.7) would give me more to work with than a slower lens that zooms, as long as I’m prepared to move around… which I am.
There are limits to this thinking, of course, as others have pointed out, and the fact that the super-fast Voigtlander 17.5mm f/0.95 doesn’t have any stabilization or autofocus would make it much harder to work with than a Panasonic lens. I'm used to focussing manually, but I'm getting the sense that this will be harder to do with a GH4 than with my PMW-200. I also always use my PMW-200's image stabilization feature, so I'm not used to working without that.
The other key point I'm taking away from your posts is that you use a camera stabilizer (that you’re developing). Is this because your lens (the Olympus 17mm f/1.8) doesn't have built-in image stabilization? Or would you use your jib-pole stabilizer even if you were using the Panasonic lens you mentioned (the 15mm, f/1.7) that does have image-stabilization?

Noa, you also like very fast lenses, and you make it very clear that for a camera like the GH4, “stabilization is a must” for handheld shooting (you use the Blackbird Steadicam, which I’m investigating). For you, it seems to me, a stabilization system is a must, even if a person were to use a lens that has image stabilization built in. Is that right?

By the way, Pete, your freezeframe of the fellow holding the cutthroat trout is gorgeous! Was this in Utah somewhere? It reminds me of the barren lands in northern Canada, but I don’t think cutthroat trout live up there. I think it must be a mountain lake, above the treeline?
And Noa—your work (I checked out some of your Personal videos) is incredibly beautiful. Much more beautifully composed visuals than anything I’ve ever recorded. It all makes me wonder if I should forget about gorgeous shallow-depth-of-field visuals and just stick with my PMW-200 video camera. Very humbling... but also inspiring!
Anyway, I do appreciate the advice from all of you.
Malcolm

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

My recommendation is to get a GH3 or GH4, a couple of lenses, and practice your photographic technique, if you have money to spare, with stills and video. If you search the forums you'll find a few people who have ditched their DSLR and M4/3 cameras for a return to regular video cameras in specific situations. The reason: The DSLR cameras are really hard to use in point and shoot situations such as weddings, parties, sports, etc. The focus, the zoom, the audio. None of these are easy on a DSLR. Neither on a consumer video camera but the semi-pro and pro video cameras have these down to a science.

I just filmed an interview, single person shooter situation, where the interviewee had to be in and out as fast as I could manage. I would rather have used my GH3 and a 20mm or 45mm lens but between the quick set-up and the complications with a using a Zoom recorder for the audio, I chose to use a JVC HM-600. Lit the room with 2 point lighting, set-up the camera and microphone all in ten minutes, sat the subject down, recorded and finished. Everybody happy. The background could have used some DOF but I would have needed another ten minutes to set up properly with the GH3. Also the subject was prone to leaning back and forth and then suddenly during the filming picked up a prop which I zoomed in on following the description of the subject. The leaning would have been hard to deal with with shallow DOF and forget the zooming in on the prop with a 20 or 45.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Malcolm,

You mentioned that you struggle sometimes so I am going to respond based upon that and some other things not mentioned yet. While it might be nice to have a GH4, you might consider getting 2 cameras and multiple lens so you have more material to work with after the fact. I suggest you might look at the Panasonic G6 because it has wifi which you can control remotely even though it records AVCHD. You can buy several of those and still have money left over for multiple lens.

As you can see there is a wide range of recommendations for lenses. I am not sure what you mean when you say you need to change exposure seamlessly as you move around, but you won't find that you can do that with the Panasonic lenses easily unless you allow the camera to do it for you.

The Voigtlander and Rokinon lenses give you manual controls and the Rokinon Cine lenses have gear rings that would allow you to more easily control focus.

If you have lights for your subjects then the zooms people mentioned are good options but depending on how much of the environment you can control shooting music videos, you might want lenses that can do a better job in lower light situations.

You didn't mention if you would be using the camera at the same time as your Sony but if that is the case you might want to consider having a separate audio recorder as well.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Bill, and William, thanks for your posts. I do understand that a GH4 (and anything like it) will be much harder to use for any run-and-gun type shooting. I'll use my bona-fide video camera (the PMW-200) for that kind of stuff. My intention is to use the GH4 for interviews (for a start, anyway). I think I'll be able (given that I'll have the camera on a tripod for this kind of thing) to record good audio using my Sennheiser G2 set (I really hope I don't have to invest in the $2,000 interface that would allow XLR input). I agree with everything you say about a proper video camera allowing for faster set-up, and I'll keep that in mind, William.
The G6 does look like a very nice camera, Bill, but there are so many things I like about the GH4. I've been thinking about a camera like this ever since I first heard about the GH2. The GH3 then came along and I liked it, but kept a mental list of things I'd like to see improved and changed. I think the GH4 had everything on the list! (that so rarely happens).
I know I'll face some challenges, but I think I will indeed get it. And I've settled on the Panasonic 12-35mm lens, because it'll be the most versatile.
Regards everyone,
Malcolm

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Here is a test I just did of my GH4 in 4K with 28-300mm Tamron.

With my 10-24mm and 28-300mm Tamron zooms I could cover a very wide range.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2915/...8615769c_k.jpg

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Nice! Love the flowers and backyard shooting.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Good choice, you can get a lot of mileage out of the 12-35. It's also one of the lenses most able to exploit the GH4s AF technology.

Way back when I first started with my GH2 (and the 12-35 wasn't available), I bought an inexpensive set of vintage OM primes and still sometimes use them for commercials and interviews. Static situations especially can make good use of old cheap glass.

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

The 12-35mm is a great start but if you want the fastest and sharpest m4/3rd telephoto lens the Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 75 mm f/1.8 ED is the way to go. Here is a photo of it on my GH4 :
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2935/...4283d1ea_k.jpg

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

one lens won't do all you want, but if i had to choose just one for GH4 i'd pick 12-35 and 35-100 :)))

Re: if I get a GH4, and just one lens...
 

Mate, that pic has got some 'pop' to it! What was it shot with? Did you shoot it as a HDR or have you played in post?
Cheers.
Al.