Jan Crittenden,

What is the cost for the 4 gig P2. MSRP and street or which that you know of. Thanks


<<<-- Originally posted by Jan Crittenden Livingston : <<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : what is the cost of 4 1 gig cards in the p2 system? -->>>

There is no 1 Gig P2 card. -->>>

The 2 gig P2 card was about $1700 street, and it's not even made any more. The 4 gig P2 card should now be less than what a 2 gig P2 card was a year ago. So I'm guessing under $2000 for a 4 gig card.

Hi Michael,

It is about $1700 today. It was $2,000 about 3 months ago.

Best,

Jan

So how much video can you get on a 4 gig card?

Depending on what you record. in DVCPRO25 it is roughly 18, in DVCPRO50 it is 9, in HD it is about 4.

Jan Crittenden,

What frame rate are these figures based on. Is this on 60 or 24. If it is on 60 does that mean 24P in HD will be around 8 minutes.

Michael Pappas
http://www.Pbase.com/ARRFILMS


<<<-- Originally posted by Jan Crittenden Livingston : Depending on what you record. in DVCPRO25 it is roughly 18, in DVCPRO50 it is 9, in HD it is about 4. -->>>

"If it is on 60 does that mean 24P in HD will be around 8 minutes."


Great question, and one I am dying to hear the answer to.

If that's the case, the amount stored in DVCPro50 at 24P should also increase a little bit (about 10%).

I hope this is the case.
While 1080 24P was a huge surprise, I hope to hear that the assumptions about lowered datarate at lowered framerate was true. If not, this puts a small (very small) damper on what is otherwise great news.

The 60P feature blew me away!

The camera is a Mini Showscan camera. I did research at Showscan corp back in late eighties thru the early 1990's. This camera doing 60P in HD is amazing. Just amazing. Shoot 60p at 1/125th of a second and you have a mini digital Showscan system. WoW!

That aside, this camera has a large format list. We haven't even seen the feature list yet. I'm getting hungry......................

Michael Pappas
http://www.Pbase.com/ARRFILMS

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pappas : Jan Crittenden,

What frame rate are these figures based on. Is this on 60 or 24. If it is on 60 does that mean 24P in HD will be around 8 minutes.

Michael Pappas
http://www.Pbase.com/ARRFILMS
-->>>

It takes 11.25 GB to record an hour of 25-Mbps video. Therefore, 4 GB should hold 21 minutes and 20 seconds. If the arithmetic holds up, DVCPro HD at 720p24 should be 5/8 of that figure, or about 13 minutes. My guess is that the actual running time will be somewhat less, but certainly should be at least 10 to 12 minutes.

In keeping with this whole "time on P2" theme, does anyone know if Firestore's upcoming HD upgrade for the FS-4 will support DVCPROHD?

I'm sure Firestore had to know this was coming, so I guess we can always hope, huh?

<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Dooley : In keeping with this whole "time on P2" theme, does anyone know if Firestore's upcoming HD upgrade for the FS-4 will support DVCPROHD?

I'm sure Firestore had to know this was coming, so I guess we can always hope, huh? -->>>

Hi Kevin,

I was talking to them about it and they are thinking. Perhaps to help them positively consider They will need encouragement from customers. But they are looking for options on how to make it work. Customers always help me make better decisions. ;-)

Best,

Jan

Well, I'll do my part and send them a little email, because between this cam and a Firestore I'm sold, as that will tide me over until P2 is cheap enough.

I don't want to paint you into a corner Jan, but I assume then that the new cam has a firewire connector (I know someone speculated in another thread that it might not...)

dvuser.co.uk are reporting that the camera will retail for "A little over £3000"GBP in the UK.

Interesting... what's the source? Do you have a direct link?

Is Panasonic trying to put people like me out of business or something?

It's http://www.dvuser.co.uk/Main%20pages/what%27s%20new%20pages/panasonic%20AG-HVX200.html.

The short "article" was posted today, and contains all the info we already know, plus the price...?

I would guess that would come in at $4000-5000 USD.

What do you mean Simon?

Thanks for the link. That ends up being about 5,300 USD or so (rough calculation).

<<<-- Originally posted by Aaron Shaw : What do you mean Simon?

Thanks for the link. That ends up being about 5,300 USD or so (rough calculation). -->>>


Is this price for real? That's a street price of 4,999. If so , Wow! Can someone verify this!

Thanks for the calculation...

I think the UK price is generally higher than the USD price, so I would guess maybe $4999?

And another $4999 for P2 cards?

Actually at that sort of price, and without the burden of having to buy a VCR it does become quite viable to stock up on P2 cards.

I'm so torn. The JVC GY-HD100 is coming in "under £4200" but won't have the fantastic 100mbit 4:2:2 HD.

On the other hand I don't really want to have to lug a laptop around on small crew docco shoots, just so I can keep offloading P2 cards.

I'm sure there will be other options than P2 at first :)

As for the choice, NAB will reveal all! Should be much easier to decide then. I'm hesitant to believe such a low price for the Panasonic camera but I would love it if it were true. What sort of credibility does the article writer have? I'm not familiar with the UK sites.

Alex, I don't know the cost of the panasonic offload hard disk, but maybe put the money you would have used in a deck, into that instead. More portable than a laptop. Or...use a firestore.

Aaron

Aaron, although this thing doesn't have interchangeable lenses, it still does DVCpro50. That really does put a huge pressure on people with DSR570's etc to pay off if this new camera is as low as has been mentioned.

High def I can live with. It'll be a while before that becomes a must have feature. But DVCpro50 on a cheap camera like that, plus don't forget it will have HD glass on it, makes it a rather serious and rather unpleasant arrival for some! 10k would have been fine. That's the same market as the DSR etc series. But 3k is around the same market as the DVX100.

Hopefully this rumour is BS. Sorry guys, I know you want DVCproHD that cheap, but at that kind of price, as someone mentioned in a thread elsewhere on DVinfo, this could mean serious problems for some production companies. They really would have to compete *in the customers eyes* with the kid in the bedroom with one of these new cameras. Thats not good for people who are trying to make a living from video who don't do TV or high end work, but still do low-mid corporate using the full size cameras.

Why not just release a DVCproHD shoulder cam for less than the SDX900? Lets see how owners of that cam react!

Probably getting wound up for nothing. Dunno where that price info on that dv site comes from anyway.

I'm not up on the play with all the cams, that's for sure, but the 570 has so many features that this cam won't have that there will still be a distinct difference. Maybe not in res, but in the quality of the image, seeing as it's 2/3" chips and all that guff.

Also the 570 has interchangeable lenses and I'm sure the ones you can get for it will blow the one on the new Panny. As Jan said herself when talking about the new JVC, that for Under 10K we can't expect decent glass....and well, I'd imagine that it'd be the same for the new Panny. Sure it will blow *US* all away, but for those high end guys and DP's etc, they'll always love the super cool hidef lenses I'd imagine.

The 570 has all those VTR interface thingies that I know almost nothing about, which I'd imagin this Panny one won't so event guys will be able to feed out and all that stuff.

I dunno, but I do think these are different markets, and people think you're way cooler and more pro if you

1) Have a shoulder mount cam - which this isn't
2) Have big chips - which this doesn't.

My uncle works in the industry and I remember talking to him about their concern with hiring a cameraman that had 1/2" chips in his cam cause they were worried it wasn't going to be good enough. Whether that was just his production company's weird way of thinking I dunno, but maybe not. If not, those people won't hire someone with a little Panny of 1/3" chips..

Aaron

Let's face it, this is a slick cam...but a prosumer cam at that.

And 5k is, at the moment, the prosumer top level price. I say 4995 to 5995 for the panny.

Just went and ran the numbers through an offical converter and 3000 GBP = 5627 USD. If the report is accurate and the cam will sell for just over 3000 GBP this would probably be around 6000 USD when all is said and done.

As for the DSR, I agree with Aaron Koolen. Add to that the fact that you are a pro (Not just any kid who picks up one of these cams will create amazing stuff or even know how to use the thing for that matter) and I think you won't have too much to worry about.

As for the chips we still have no official word, though I think 1/3" is a very good bet.

Hey Jan C.,

I be seeing you, Mr. Hurd and all our esteemed dvinfo.net rockers out in
sunny Las Vegas. There I hope to end the speculation and see how far
you pushed the corporate envelope this time ;)

If it is anything near as good as the (your!) DVX-100a is, I promise to be thrilled!!!

Hi Simon!

I can get a good tool kit for under 500 bucks over at Pep-boys, and rent a cheap hole in the wall. Does that mean I can start to fix cars. Yeah I could under price all the local mechanics and even give out krispy Kremes in the lobby with Star bucks coffee to mask out that I don't really understand the mechanics of the cars before me.

The truth is if somebody is uninformed and hires services without at-least checking out the business then their asking for problems.

Anyone searching for someone to shoot their production, being a commercial, in house video, wedding, film, training video, docu, news, porn etc. If they have not asked to see their portfolio of past work, then there's a chance they might get a really bad piece of work done and very burned over that.

But then someone like this really can't exists since a hack really can't have portfolio that is good if their not good. Unless the portfolio contains stolen material. But again if it's important then the buyer will contact previous clients and ask questions.

We had a tile roof put on, we checked the past 10 jobs, the same with our wall, we checked the past clients out.

So low price cameras are not the problem, they never will be.

Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/ARRFILMS



<<<-- Originally posted by Simon Wyndham :
Hopefully this rumour is BS. Sorry guys, I know you want DVCproHD that cheap, but at that kind of price, as someone mentioned in a thread elsewhere on DVinfo, this could mean serious problems for some production companies. They really would have to compete *in the customers eyes* with the kid in the bedroom with one of these new cameras. Thats not good for people who are trying to make a living from video who don't do TV or high end work, but still do low-mid corporate using the full size cameras.

Why not just release a DVCproHD shoulder cam for less than the SDX900? Lets see how owners of that cam react!

Probably getting wound up for nothing. Dunno where that price info on that dv site comes from anyway. -->>>

Ahh, but the problem is with client perception. Many clients at the level I work at quite often go with the cheapest option. They know nothing about the cameras. If a company wants a training video made they often don't know the difference between a DVX100 and an F900!

Sure, perhaps I don't want to work for those people. But then again, yes I do. They pay my wages!

Already there was a case over on one of the other forums where guys with an F900 lost out a job to a guy with a Sony FX1 because the client thought high def was high def!

Now while this new Panny might not have top grade HD glass, I bet it does a good job in SD, and the fact that it does 4:2:2 SD makes a hell of a lot of difference where some things are concerned.

As I mentioned when the FX1 came about, the companies have gone about this arse about tit. They've jumped straight from the high end to the low end market without taking care of the middle ground first.

Why not just buy one of these suckers then?

Simon,

Who cares about the camera, it's not about the camera and if these clients are so dumb, there bound to bitch about 1 2 3 and xyz before the project is even done about things they know nothing about. Mean while your one step from smashing camera over their heads. Life is to short to put up with that BS.

Simon if you believe in your work, and your good at selling yourself then you will be able to sell the client on taking your services.


You meet the client. show them your reel/portfolio

Then go over the elements of the production

Then you explain to them what you'll do for them.

Then you explain why your more then the low baller hacks. and the negatives of people like that.

Then give them a list on good paper of previous clients.

Simon this one is very important:
Then you say to them . "" Look if you don't use my services I can understand that. That's decision you have to make . But do yourself the service and look at their Reel / Portfolio and if they tell you they don't have one I suggest you try the next company on your list and one other bit advice I can give you is ask for a previous client list to call.

From here you can end this meeting the way you want.

Simon business like this is often more about selling " You " to the client. The way you carry yourself, your energy, enthusiasm etc. Then your portfolio will do the rest. Sometimes the Portfolio is all that's needed.

Anyway I hope some of this helps.



Michael Pappas
http://www:Pbase.com/ARFILMS





<<<-- Originally posted by Simon Wyndham : They know nothing about the cameras. If a company wants a training video made they often don't know the difference between a DVX100 and an F900!
. -->>>

Thanks Michael. Just had one on me today. :-)