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Luis Caffesse April 25th, 2005 08:26 AM

"I'm a shooter/editor, but have made most of my money editing. I've edited both AVID and FCP for years, but guess which one I say first when speaking to someone in the industry?

Kevin, I know exactly what you mean.
I'm in the same exact boat, shooting/editing but making most of my money on post. And when people ask me, I generally mention AVID before anything else.

It is interesting that the limted access to professional tools in the past has delineated the pros from the non's. Now that the country club is open to all members, it sure is hard to tell the rich from the poor... This is quite troubling to the old school folks and can be quite confusing to clients new to the game."

Exactly.
I mean, if everything is professional, then nothing is professional.

Of course, in these discussions it's important to remember, in the end it's the work ethic, creative vision, and craftsmanship that makes someone a professional. The tools are secondary.

Jesse Bekas April 25th, 2005 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala
Just yesterday I came from a 2 day shoot where the producer rented 2 DVX100 camcorders. There was a lot of low-light stuff, theater, hallways at night, very much an on-the-run kind of a documentary. I was only reminded how bad the lens on this camcorder is and how difficult it is to get a good focus in low light with it.

Hence, for me, the dividing line between pro gear and non-pro (whatever we decide to call it), if everything else is equal or close to equal, is the ability to use real lenses with their operability and flexibility AND the way the camera is built, i.e. where the controls are, how the viewfinder in placed, what kinds of ports there are, etc.

I am not saying that a good or even great product cannot be made with prosumer or even very basic consumer cameras (Born to Brothels, Open Water, etc.) but from an operator's point of view there is no question about where the HDX200 fits. When you take an old Betacam, say BVW400, or heck, take an old Hitachi with a U-matic deck; the lines or resolution are simply not there when compared to HD or HDV, however, the camera is still a professional piece of equipment because of the way it is built and the the fact that it has a real lens or provision for. A 5 Megapixel parallax little still camera with a built-in lens, full manual control ability and recording to the same media is not professional next to a 2.6 Megapixel Nikon D1. It could be, however, used by professionals with great results. Will they pick it as their main tool if given the choice? I doubt it. Just ask any professional photograper...

What we are experiencing here are tremendous advances in technology and their implication on all levels of equipment, from high-end pro gear to entry level consumer. And yes, absolutely, take ANY DV consumer one chip camcorder today and compare it to the old U-matic. If the camera operator knows what he/she is doing they will almost certainly get better quality images than those of the 3/4" we used 10-15 years ago. Does it make the camcorder professional? Of course not. Before 9/11 we used to discuss the so called "broadcast quality" and a friend of mine used as an example the possibility of a plane hitting the CN Tower in Toronto making any and all low-rez shaky randomly shot VHS quality video of the incident "broadcast quality" on an instant. It still has nothing to do with the distinction between professional equipment and consumer gear put on stereoids.

Disclaimer:
I know that I will be attacked for this, so I want to make it very clear that these are my personal opinions based on my preferences and experience. I have owned and/or used camcorders ranging from Hi8 to CineAlta.

Well, nobody is going to argue with you over what your opinions on what separates professional from consumer gear. Your disclaimer prevents it ;)

The original discussion was about pricing of the two groups. There are specific factors that will determine hikes in price and the division of the two kinds of equipment. E.g., the DVX100 was made by Panny's professional division, as was the HVX200. You can expect the prices of their accessories (specifically P2 media, which started this whole thing), to be higher than the price of 8 (combined) GB of SD flash memory, which would be consumer products. The same is true of all products aimed at professionals. When you think about the cost of a Digibeta deck, it's almost ridiculous until you consider the intended market. The same will be true of these new breed of cams. They may be low end professional, but they are professional nonetheless.

Now, when it comes to your personal criteria of what makes equipment professional or not (I know I said I'd leave it alone but I just thought of this), you also have to consier that people just coming into the pro world, i.e. early-twenty-somethings, like myself, who have not handled
U-matic gear, will see cams like the HD100 and HVX100 as pro gear. Who's to say that we won't be judging cams 15 years from now by the standards they set (feel, button placement, feature sets, etc...)?

Disclaimer ;) - I really hope you don't feel like a repsonse such as this is an "attack" on you. I'm merely want represent my side of the discussion. As Chris has said, nothing is intended to be taken personally here.

Jiri Bakala April 25th, 2005 11:33 AM

Jesse, very fair and you have a point. BTW, my first camera was 'prosumer' :-) Sony VX3 (Hi8)... at the time, a killer beast :-)

Lawrence Bansbach April 25th, 2005 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green
As far as I know, people saying an 8gb card for $1700 are unsubstantiated.

Sorry. I was quoting Robin Liss at CamcorderInfo: "At Panasonic's press conference today, they announced a major price drop in P2 cards down to $1,700 for a 8 GB card. . . . Previously, a 4 GB P2 card, capable of recording 4 minutes of HD video cost about $1,700." After rereading that paragraph, I think something may have gotten garbled when the article was written.


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