No I think you were right, it is slomo you're thinking of. It's not that it can only be done in 720 it's just that there are very few sensibly-priced cameras that will do more than 30fps in 1080 (Sony SRW9000 with option boards being one example). For proper slomo you need at least 60fps really and it's only in 720 that most cameras these days can do it. This is why there is a market for the HPX2700 - people in wildlife and other areas can't live without slomo, even if it means sacrificing resolution.

Yes, you can add a Nanoflash to the 350, and I think it's an area where Sony are winning, ie that Panny have the better codec but a lesser chip in a lot of lines - with the Sony you can add a Nanoflash to even up the codec stakes, but Panny can't ever even up the chip side of things as you're stuck with the one that's in the camera.

Steve

I think it's a case of time moving on. It may indeed have been "not that bad of an image" when first released and up against the competition of it's day - but it's now up against a raft of new cameras as competition. It's also now more likely to be shown on full 1920x1080 plasma screens, rather than the lower resolution ones which were the norm when it was first released.

That's really the point I was making - wouldn't we have expected to see it's replacement by now? The 3100 looks good, but are we not going to see any other 2/3" camera from Panasonic this IBC?
Are you sure that price isn't a typo? I've just checked, and the UK street price for a 2700 is about £25,000 (with v/f, but no memory or lens!) quite a bit more than for a PDW700. I've never seen a package of it with a bundled lens for anywhere remotely close to the £10-15,000 range I mentioned.
I'm sure you're correct. But that then means do I pay well over £20,000 (with no lens), or about £13,500 (with lens) and not worry about CMOS. If you're doing mid-range drama, the extra may be worth it - so get a 3100 or PDW700 - but for a lot of other work it just isn't.
Well, yes, and a lot of money! I wouldn't try and pretend that a PMW350 is as good as a 3100 (or a PDW700) in absolute quality terms - but it's vastly cheaper, and far more than good enough for most purposes.

Glen - you are absolutely correct about the nanoFlash, and I believe a lot of people do just that. But I don't really like extra bits hanging off the camera - not when there seems to be no technical reason not to have 50Mbs XDCAM 422 coding in camera. Hence the wish of a great many people for a PMW350 with the fully approved codec, even if it costs a bit more.

David,

The HPX2700 P2 Varicam has a special $19,950 trade-in price through September 30 in the US. It has been on offer off and on since October of 2009. It is an amazing camera for the money. My clients do a whole lot of green screen and most don't want a 4:2:0 codec, so that leaves out the 350 unless using an external recorder. Getting away from an external recorder is the reason I got out of my HDX900/Firestore setup(yes, a nanoFlash is a better solution than FireStore) and went for the 2700. I've got 6.7 hours of internal record time at 720/24PN with a 10-bit, 4:2:2, I-Frame codec, using 32Gb P2 cards(2x that with 64Gb cards).

Many of my clients looking for a 2/3" camera won't take the XDCAM EX codec seriously, especially for compositing work. Of course there are some who demand a native 1080 camera, at which point I sub-rent an HPX3700. The 3100 would fit some of my client's needs admirably at a lower day rate than a 3700, theoretically.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video

Well, I'm not sure what conclusions can be reached from special offer prices as a basis for comparison, and I assume that only applies in the US anyway?
I find it extremely odd that they don't want a 4:2:0 codec - but are happy with 1 megapixel chips upsampled to 1080! Good green screen depends on good resolution in the luminance signal as much as chrominance performance. (And good lighting etc being even more important than either.) Yes, the ideal is 1920x1080 chips and 4:2:2 recording - but if I had to sacrifice one or the other, I'd keep the chip resolution and accept 4:2:0.

But as Steve said - at least you have the option of an external recorder with a 350, you don't have any option of external chips with a 2700.

David,

I have DP clients and editors who won't shoot green screen with XDCAM EX. I have an EX1, but they won't go for it when compositing. I recently had a DP tell me he'd rather do green screen with a Canon 7D than with XDCAM EX. He's more technical than many DP's, writes a lot on the internet and for magazines.

Nobody has ever complained about green screen with a 2700 using AVC-Intra 100. A 720P full raster recording at 10-bit, 4:2:2, I-Frame, with lots of latitude works just fine for the waist up head shots on green screen shot commonly.

As far as the 2700 trade-in price, I can only speak to the market I'm in, which is the US. There are now several 3700's/ 2700's in the SF Bay Area in large part due to the trade-in deal on offer for over a year, off and on. There are no Sony 350's, 1/2" or 2/3", no 700's, and one 800 in our rental market.

I just got back from shooting some amazing Native American tribal dances, shooting daytime exteriors and night time fire lit exteriors. The 2700 in Film-Rec 600%, AVC-Intra 100 at 720P, provided some very natural images, even at 9db gain in the latter case. The ability to do 48 frame overcranking in camera really added a nice aesthetic for some scenes. The camera held the fire as far as color and there was some highlight detail retained as well, while still providing good shadow detail and mid-tones, even before grading. I'm sure an Arri Alexa could have done better, but I am pretty impressed with what was captured by the P2 Varicam.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video

More Details
 

No 720/50/ 60 option in this camera

http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/sales...PX3100_pre.pdf

Looks like a low cost 3ccd Full HD camera. It is referred as "2/3 Type 3CCd ".
Not sure what they mean by " type". May be pixel shifting or something like.
A 2/3 Type 3CCD in a HPX 370 Body. I expect a price target of less than 20K.


Rajiv

Just 1080 flavors of HD.

I believe they're full raster 1920x1080 chips. By "type," I think they were referring to these chips being CCDs, not CMOS. It wasn't the best translated brochure.
So, a full raster 1920x1080, 2.2 megapixel 2/3" 3CCD camera with AVC-intra 100 and 4:2:2 color, all in a lighter 370 body. Sounds really good to me.

I don't consider a camera on the plus side of $30,000 being "low cost." I wish it were below 20K.

I'm assuming it'll the exact same chip and processing as the HPX3000. Seems like they've put it in a smaller body and made some mechanical tweaks to keep power consumption down, and to give an excuse for putting it at a lower price - the 2700, 3700 and 3000 all seemed way over-priced, it's been commented on a lot, and was evidenced by them suddenly halving the price with their trade-in offer.
Steve

I agree the 3700 seems a bit pricey.. although the most exp camera I have bought was my first a Sony 400AP.. which was the same price as an average house in the UK at the time.. with the VAT..!!!
So on the surface.. same chips as 3700,full raster,no pixel shifting trickery.. light,small,lower power consumption .. tech approved for all the high end broadcaster,s .. HDX900 owners can use their viewfinders and camera mic,s.. $25-30,000.. whats not to love? sounds a winner to me..

Looks like I was right after all, the HPX3100 is finally shipping and the price point is supposedly $19,950!

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video

I think the PMW-500 has some serious price competition.

Abel just quoted me an HPX3100 package with color VF and Fuji ZA lens (and P2 reader and media) for a whole lot less than I would pay for just a PMW-500 with Lens alone. Wow!

Unless your clients require Sony branded gear, or need variable FR, or you already have lots of SxS investments, I see no compelling reason to spend lots of hard-earned $$$ on the PMW500 at this point.

best,
-Greg

Greg, care to share your quoted price? You can send me a PM if you like.

Yeah I would be interested too.. if you dont mind

I guess that 1080 50P cannot be that far away now 1080 30P is here. Maybe the lack of 720 50P is a hint of 1080 50P on the doorstep.

I got a quote from a dealer and they gave me the price of $19,500. That's the body only.

I talked to my local dealer today and he said there isn't much room to deal based on what they have to pay for the body.

David

Anyone have a UK sterling quote yet? UK gear prices always seemed to be much higher than US.. even without the 20% VAT tax !!!

The 3100 just started shipping. The first couple went out at the end of the year.

In Italy, Spain, France and Germany, prices are around 28/29000 Euros, body only.
Difference with US prices is simply too much.
I think in short time prices will come down on european market; otherwise, will be more convenient purchase it in US, even with all the custom duties and taxes added.

Unless an HPX601 comes out to compete I will be going back to sony and a 350 with nanoflash/AJA Ki pro mini as that is certified for BBC use.

There just isn't the work around to justify investment in high end camera's anymore!

Re: New HPX3100 P2 camera due in October
 

I agree, Gary. Very few producers will pay the premium these days. Budgets are just under too much pressure and kit like the EX3/HPX300/XF305 still gets it done.

Re: New HPX3100 P2 camera due in October
 

Well to update the HPX371 is now on the BBC approved HD camera list, now maybe the new technology will be used more to create interesting content at cost effective levels.

Re: New HPX3100 P2 camera due in October
 

gary-

now that the hpx3100 w/its 1/3" chips and lovely codec has made "the thumbs up bbc list", i wonder how the upcoming hpx250 will measure up?

be well

rob
smalltalk productions

Re: New HPX3100 P2 camera due in October
 

Yikes.. the 3100 has 1/3 inch chips.. :)

Re: New HPX3100 P2 camera due in October
 

robin/everyone-

my mistake

the 3100 is a 2/3" chip camera.

i was focused on the codec not the chips.

mea culpa

sorry for the confusion.

be well

rob
smalltalk productions

Re: New HPX3100 P2 camera due in October
 

HPX250 should be OK for BBC approval as it is virtually the same camera and will give an alternative to the XF305.

It will also act as a perfect B camera to the 371 too.

Re: New HPX3100 P2 camera due in October
 

Hi Rob

Just joking around.. yes I get confused with all these numbers..!! must be a whole department in the bowels of Sony and Pana who come up will this stuff.. The HDX900 and the Sony 900 caused much confusion for prod managers.. thinking in codex is probably a better idea ..