How to pulldown to get 1080 24p
 

The 1080/24p clips that we have been getting from Kaku are imbedded in a 1080/60i stream so they seem very interlaced when I play them back. What can I do to apply the pulldown in FCP or somewhere to get a quicktime file that is true 1080/24p?

I looked at the panasonic site to find the frame converter plug-in or whatever, and I found the thing you use for the Varicam, but would that plug it work for the HVX footage?

If someone could walk me through this process it'd be much appreciated.

Hmmmmm, ya know I'm not sure.
I beleive Final Cut Pro HD should be able to handle DVCPRO-HD 1080p24 clips embedded in the 60i stream and give you pull down you need. It's only able to do it if you have the latest update that was released last week. 5.0.4 i think. Make sure you have that version of FCP and you should be OK.
Cinema Tolls should be able to do it as well.

There's no low-cost editor that does 1080p24 at all on PC yet. *sad face*

- ShannonRawls.com

I don't know what low cost means but Canopus Edius supports all the p flavors including 1080p. Here is a link to a list of prests available. http://www.rdonato.com/uploads/Presets.jpg It is 600 bucks and for 1k you can get the broadcast version which supports timelines with a mix of just about anything(so does Edius 3.6 non-broadcast) including in the broadcast version only
Panasonic DVCPRO® 50 and DVCPRO HD
Panasonic DVCPRO P2
Panasonic VariCam®
Sony XDCAM®
Windows Media HD®

I think they will sell a seperate module eventually just for DVCpro support so as to fit this cameras market ...but compared to Avid this is cheap and Edius is a nice editor.

Randy,

Why did you give me that screenshot? all it shown was DV & HDV in the presets. Not 1 ounce of DVCPROHD or uncompressed HD or and type of HDCAM in it. That was a waste of screenshotting. *smile*

Additionally, you're wrong.
The edius version you're talking about can't touch DVCPRO-HD. Which is what we're discussing right now.

Neither Edius DVX or Edius NX does DVCPRO-HD. If you pay for the HD extension kit for Edius NX then you can do DVCPRO-HD. But be prepared to pay $2,098.00 if you want it. (hardly low-cost) Now if you do decide to go that route, be prepared to know that it will NOT do 1080p24 DVCPRO-HD. (the prefered method). However, it will ingest the 1080/24pN but it will not yet do the pulldown needed, and thats what we are all waiting for from these companies and what Brian is asking about.

There are some much more expensive options offered by Canopus, but do I really need to discuss anything higher then $2k grand?

Personally, I think what Barry is doing is a perfectly acceptable work-a-round for PC users. Take a bit of time, but hell, that's what this business is all about. Especially if you want the best of the best.

Also.....I wouldn't let "software" be a determinant on whether you buy one camera over another. Software will catch up to ALL these cameras before you know it.

- ShannonRawls.com

To remove the pulldown in FCP (v5.04):

1) select the clips in the bin you want to remove the pulldown from.
2) under the TOOLS menu select CINEMA TOOLS REVERSE TELECINE

That's it!

(you will now notice in the vid rate section of the bin, the frame rate has changed from 29.97 to 24)

They have a new bundle called Edius Broadcast that includes everything you'd need for 100% HVX integration. It's Edius 3, plus the P2 option pack, plus the DVCPRO-HD option pack, plus the Varicam option pack(full support for all variable frame rates).

That bundle is $999 retail; I'd guess somewhere around $700 street. That should qualify as low-cost.

The other things they offer (like SP and NX and whatnot) are hardware cards, but according to what I think I heard at DVExpo, you don't need any of that stuff in order to be cutting HVX footage in realtime in high-def. Those cards primarily give you the live video output for an external monitor. But supposedly you can be underway and editing with just the Edius Broadcast package.

Thanks a million! I was trying to figure out how to do this before... but it wasn't explained step by step.

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I could have been but my comments(specifically where I said "including in the broadcast version only") makes it clear that the Edius Broadcast version (which is expected out any day) does support DVC-Pro in all flavors(and HD cam etc) and it will cost 1K not 2,098...that is old info and Canopus is now bundeling all the plugins you need in the Broadcast version...also you are mistaken on the 1080p24 DVC Pro HD and it has been doing it for some time for Varicam owners who are very pleased....Let me quote from the literature:

"The Panasonic VariCam format provides 720p 24fps and variable frame rate capture for film-like feel and detailed fast/slow motion effects. With built-in VariCam support, the EDIUS timeline can import VariCam footage for editing in its native format. Edited VariCam sequences can be exported back to a DVCPRO HD deck, or output to another format for use within other environments." BTW FCP doesn't allow the variable frame rate capture.
...... Now when are you going to get this camera so I can read some entertaining posts about it...and I want to see some shower SS from you.

For the most part that is correct...the cards give you high quality component out for HD and SD of all flavors. A couple of things they do to save CPU cycles is the cards do all the overlay work which is done in software(cpu cycles) by most editing softwares and perhaps most important for RT is if you have a mix of SD and HD of diferent frame sizes and it does all the scaling which is a big relief of CPU cycles. That is one of the reasons Canopus can keep its RT claims with mixed formats on the timeline...but bottom line the cards are a "super video card" that you can rely on for proper color mapping for an external monitor.

Randy, there you go again showing me something that makes no sense. Varicam doesn't do 1080p24. Did you think it did? If you know it doesn't, then how do you equate 1080p24, with literature that's plain as day telling you 720p24??? Why would you sit up and tell me i'm wrong, and then go and post literature quotes that don't support your statement. You were better off not saying anyting at all. *smile*

Brutha...It currently does NOT work. I know because I hae a friend who works for the city of los angeles where he bought the entire Edius expensive setup (on taxpayers money no less) and he has confirmed this with me. The broadcast version is NOT RELEASED yet. Heck, if thats what you're banking on, then EVERYBODY supports DVCPROHD....Sony Vegas, Adobe Premier, Ulead Media Studio Pro, Windows Movie Maker! lol.........it's just not released yet. *smile*

This is what I said: There's no low-cost editor that does 1080p24 at all on PC yet. *sad face*

Notice the "yet" statement.

Don't get me wrong...we are on the same side here. We both are wearing the same uniform. I want DVCPRO-HD to work on PC more then anybody here. All I'm saying is it's doesn't right now, and it will in the future. I'm even being more optomistic about it by saying it does not MATTER that there isn't any support for it on January 5th, 2006. Because it is coming and coming very soon.

Gee wiz.

- ShannonRawls.com

Shannon, I am pretty sure you are wrong on this one and give me a little time and I may get someone from Canopus to respond. Edius Boadcast is Edius version 3.x the underlying editor plus all the older codec/p2 options that have been around for a long time but at the prices you have quoted. The only difference between 720P and the 1080p flavors is the frame size which Edius is agnostic about. If it works for 720P there is no reason it will not for a bigger frame. I know that big time improvements for P support in general was a part of the new 3.6 release so your guy may just need to update to that assuming he has the DVC-Pro HD codec option, P2 option, and the varicam module(all of which will come with Broadcast at a reduced price). Canopus is very tight with Panasonic(one of the few PC software companies that have the codec license) and I doubt they will miss out on this format.

LOL ;-). It's interesting being a member of this community.

You caught my unedited version which I thought better of and changed....no sense getting Shannon any more excited :) Oh well....

Ahhhhhhh MMMmmmmm Hmmmm, see...*tapping my foot with arms crossed* Ya got caught talkin' smack to me Huh Mr. Randy!!!!! *SMILE*

Well, check on it. It's not just the resolution size that's different. It's the way its recorded as well. This is why Avid is having a few isssues.

Check on it, and please bring back some good news!

- ShannonRawls.com

For you it is going straight to the top...I should know in a day. I have been wrong more than once in my life and may be here(but not about my Texas Boys playing some fellows near where you live):)

Don't start none won't be none!!! *CHEESE*

- ShannonRawls.com

Finaly I got an answer....Edius Broadcast is perfectly able to import and edit all flavors of the HVX200 including 1080p of any kind.Tested with a cam and thank you Shannon but I was right. Monitor output via the Nx is over 60 though(which makes sense).

"over 60"?

Wonder if you can convert DVCPRO-HD to the Canopus codec as you can HDV. And, if there is any advantage to doing so.

If this new Broadcast Pack includes 24fps 720p HDV and 24fps 1080 HDV (which I suspect it does) support, it looks like Canopus has a universal HD solution as it now works very well with 720p30 HDV -- even on a laptop.

Broadcast does support HDV 720/24p -- they were demoing it at DV Expo using the footage that Charles and Nate and I shot with the mini35. Don't know about 24F, although I would be surprised if it didn't work.

As far as the codec, Canopus has two: CanopusHD, and CanopusHQ. "HD" was their first, and is basically their own implementation of DVCPRO-HD. They apparently engineered it independent of Panasonic, off of the SMPTE spec, and called it CanopusHD. Then they came out with CanopusHQ, which is 10-bit (I think). So I would expect that yes you could transcode to CanopusHQ, but you should also be perfectly supported to leave it in its native form.

According to the little info they release about it, it appears that even Edius Pro 3.6 supports the Canon 24F now. Their newest update to 3.6 says it supports JVC and Panasonic HDV 24FPS. This is a free upgrade to edius 3.5.

It seems like you really only need to buy Edius Broadcast for P2 and DVCPRO-HD support. Canopus seems to be really on top of things again. Now if they would just give me a professional set of color tools like every other non linear editor out there I'd be feeling pretty good about buying this!

LOL I never said Broadcast couldn't do anything. How you gon' come back "20 Days Later" hollerin' you right? Where can I buy a copy of Edius Broadcast Randy? Oh...that's right....IT'S NOT OUT YET. Well heck Randy, if we're going to talk about software that isn't available yet.....then, well, SONY VEGAS 8.0d can do it too.

Anyhow...you want to be right and me be wrong? ok, I'm wrong...I'm totally wrong. You are right Randy. How's that? Friends?

- ShannonRawls.com

I thought the same thing too Shannon.

But based on your logic (tongue in cheek) we might as well say that the Edius (and every other coming NLE) supports the HVX300 also! By the time the HVX200 actually gets to it's core users almost all of the Software may darn well support it!

The other odd thing that I am seeing is that with every cutting edge camera I have bought I had to wait for NLE support. With the HVX there legitimately is a chance the software will support it before the camera arrives to most of us. Which is just weird. Normally I have my camera and I am playing with it and wishing for software to catch up. In this case we just can't get the camera! A weird turn of events. I mean.....Barry may actually be shipping his HVX book before any real quantity of cameras have shipped. I'm sure most of us anticipated having the camera and just waiting for the HVX book and DVD so we could really delve into it. Now we are all hoping for it so we can actually see some footage from the camera and maybe...just maybe that will hold us over until we get the HVX in our grubby little hands! Maybe.

Actually, I think you would use the "remove advanced pulldown options" I would assume the Reverse Telecine would work on footage that has proper 3:2 pulldown. If the 1080 footage works just like in the DVX, the footage should have the Advanced Pulldown Pattern of 3:2:2:3 in it.

Just my theory, I don't have my HVX yet :(

Absolutely and that was never in doubt...in fact at NAB I am going to convert you to Edius. 4.0 will be out by then and some big feature gaps like multicam and nested sequences will be closed(along with some other cool stuff). You of all people will love Edius since it is a Real-Time machine and render and wait is an foreign concept for most tasks and the full frame full resolution monitor out is plain beautiful with HDV....now on the vaporware point which is a good point for about one week,they are being shipped from Japan and mine will be on my machine this week. They are taking orders right now if anyone is interested. Thomson Valley just bought Canopus and have done a very smart thing....they are giving them a lot of cash for development but letting them do their thing which is NLEs. This combo is going to be a winner for both broadcast and professional editing. Keep your eye on it.

Edius Broadcast is shipping right now and much to my surgrin the the upgrade version will not be available for 2 weeks...but the full version can be had