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Is quick time pro with a G4 the best and cheapest way to capture from the HVX?
Is quick time pro with a G4 the best and cheapest way to capture from the HVX?
This is getting very expensive and I need to cut costs where I can, but still have good equipment for the film. I'm getting a couple of G4 power books (Old/new from MacMall) with 1.65g processors and 1.5g of ram to record from the HVX to a raid HD setup and I was wondering if anyone has any info on using Quick time 7 pro as the capture utility. I have FCP and a Quad G5 to edit with, but I can only put FCP on the G5. FCE is too expensive to buy for the laptops at this point, as I need to have enough money for new tripods, etc and to pay the cast and crew this summer during the shoot. I called apple tech support but they couldn't answer the question and suggested I post the question here. David |
You could pretty easily just use the Powerbooks to drag the files over from the cards. There may be some software out there that'd let you view them, but I'm not positive about that. If you could get Final Cut on one of the laptops, that'd be perfect, but you say that that doesn't look like it'll be possible.
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David |
I'm assuming you're not planning on buying the P2 cards, in order to save money. Your plan is to capture directly through the laptop to the raid.
That being said, you need to have an application that captures DVCProHD over Firewire. I don't think Quicktime Pro even does that. I don't of any low-cost, standalone application that does that. That being said, this camera will be hugely popular, so people may come out of the woodwork to support it. There may be several standalone capture apps for Mac by April for NAB. And Serious Magic is rumored to be developing an HVX model of the DVRack software, but that's for PC's. And you don't want to be counting on any of this 3rd-party development to be ready for your shoot by summer. So, based on the known specifications of the camera, the cheapest way to capture is to either license FCP for your laptop, or rent P2 cards, then build in time to transfer the contents of the cards to a USB external drive. If you copy P2 to USB, then you can backup the USB drive on-set to a laptop, raid array, etc. That may not be the easiest solution, but it is probably the cheapest. |
I thought you can put FCP on as many machines as you want as long as only one machine is being used at that time and if you are using the machines at the same time problems would only occur if they were connected to a common server.
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David |
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David |
I think the apple rep might have thought you were making copies to dispense to others in your "business". I don't think that they expect you to buy copies for every machine you personally own and I do not think this is illegal if that is your concern. If you own all those machines I believe you are allowed to put them on everyone for your own use. Again I think the problems arise when you are on a common server where a single use copy would be recognized, which I do not think is your problem. Since you are getting the machines just give it a try. I have done it on my desktop and laptop up to FCP 4.5 with no problems.
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Edit to add the Apple tech said that Steven Jobs would press charges if I went online with two machines with the same copy of FCP, but if I'm just using the laptops for the cameras and not online I can get away with it. David |
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David |
Yeah, I'd say that this is a pretty legally sketchy topic, so I'd recommend taking any discussions on this out of the forum, before the mods close this down.
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He's correct... about one copy per machine...
I called Apple a few months ago to see if I could just use an I-book and they told me I need the Power Book and I would have to purchase FCP 5 again... |
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David |
It seems I was wrong. Steve, I'm immediatedley taking it off one of my machines. This from apples site if anyone cares to read:
This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. The Apple Software may be used to reproduce materials so long as such use is limited to reproduction of non-copyrighted materials, materials in which you own the copyright, or materials you are authorized or legally permitted to reproduce. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time. You may make one copy of the Apple Software in machine-readable form for backup purposes only; provided that the backup copy must include all copyright or other proprietary notices contained on the original. Except as and only to the extent expressly permitted in this License or by applicable law, you may not copy, decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, modify, or create derivative works of the Apple Software or any part thereof. THE APPLE SOFTWARE IS NOT INTENDED FOR USE IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEMS, LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES OR OTHER EQUIPMENT IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE COULD LEAD TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE. |
OHMYGOD, YOU'RE NOT SHOOTING IN A NUCLEAR FACILITY ARE YOU????
BTW, the thing with Quicktime Pro is that it will read DVCProHD files, and it will allow you to export in any Quicktime codec you have, including DVCProHD. It just won't allow you to live capture from firewire. |
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David |
Well, there is a sort-of solution, if I understand software distribution practices correctly:
Install FCP on a hard drive, and plug that drive into whatever machine you happen to be using at any given moment. That way, FCP only "exists" on one machine at a time. Now, technically, you may continuously install the software on new machines as long as you delete it on the other machines. Many contracts (or interpretations) loosen this to mean "you can install on more than one machine, as long as you never RUN it on more than one machine at a time", since, technically, you could achieve the same effect by deinstalling and reinstalling. This might work for you if you don't plan to use the laptops simultaneously. -Barry |
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David |
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it may be installed only on one machine at one time. it doesn't say you can install multiple times on multiple machines, but use it only on one machine at a time. |
Only FCP will work with DVCPRO HD and 24p to capture from the camera according to the chart on the Apple web site.
David |
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cheap solution - buy another copy off ebay- jaywalking is illegal but you should still look both ways. A ticket is nothing compared to getting wacked by 3 tons of steel.Kurth
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Careful not to spend a dollar to save a dime.
I did a pretty large scale 24P DV shoot (DVX100) a while back and since it made me nervous to put a ton of labor costs onto a $6 cassette I bought a portable DV deck to connect via firewire so I would have a back-up of all the shots. Fortunately, I didn't need the back-ups, but I did learn just how un-"production-friendly" a firewire connection really is - it would frequently fall out or come loose (despite the gaffers tape). The time I lost was the small price I was going to have to pay to make sure I had a shot to edit with -- adding a day because a tape failed was not in the budget. My point is this: trying to tether two laptops to your cameras, while a seemingly cost-effective solution, is likely to cost you a lot of time, on top of what you might spend trying to make it work. If you can figure out a way to swing P2 cards you'll have greater flexibility/mobility with your cameras -- cameras that will start recording with the push of a button, as opposed to making sure FCP is capturing on two separate laptops. I've seen productions where someone comes up with a "half-price" solution, only to have it work half of the time and they wind up spending more than if they had gone with a more traditional approach. Making a movie is hard enough -- a rigged recording solution, while feasible may prove disastrous.
And for something totally different -- I thought I heard that FireStore has a solution for the HVX, of course this solution is not inexpensive, but it may be more cost-effective than P2 cards. Best of luck -- and thanks for having the integrity not to abuse FCP's software license. |
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As for not abusing the FCP software license, after over $9,500.00 worth of Apples (A G5 Quad and 2 G4's) and the FCP software as well as some other software and computer upgrades, I'm pretty sure Apple is isn't feeling too abused by me. As I said there are always 3rd party solutions and workarounds that are fair to all parties involved, and I have some time anyway. Who knows perhaps apple will upgrade "QuickTime Pro" to a really "Pro" app. That way they can't be accused of ripping people off by offering a "Pro" product that isn't up to "Pro" standards, right? After all Apple can easily incorporate the ability to capture DVCPRO HD from a camera into QuickTime Pro, they already know the codec for it. (Memo to Steve Jobs: Hey Steve, do the right thing and help us small time Indie flick guys out and really up grade QT Pro so it will capture DVCPRO HD. After all it will funnel all that film shot in QT Pro into your computers and software, and its win-win baby, and you win both times to our one! ;) Your new pal, David M Payne.) David ;) |
QT has "Device Native" option
Hi David,
I was just sharing my experience with 4-pin firewire in a production environment to say that it's rather touchy. Unfortunately, someone hasn't devised a type of firewire connector that is as robust as BNC or XLR. As for QuickTime Pro, I did notice under the recording preferences you can choose "Device Native" under the quality option -- this may only go as far as the DV codec, I didn't find a definitive answer elsewhere online in my brief search. I know it goes without saying, but thoroughly test your workflow before you sink too much money in any one direction. Also realize that if it takes an extra 5 minutes every time you need to relocate the camera(s) to accommodate moving your laptop stations, you're easily loosing an hour or more a day, after 10 days of shooting, you've lost more than a day. You're probably not in a situation where you have to pay your crew over-time, but that kind of productivity loss will affect morale. -David |
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David |
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