Problems Using a Tota as a Soft Key Light
 

I have a DV Creator Kit 1 that I really like. I will eventually get the Rifa soft light but for right now I want to use my Tota light with an umbrella as a soft light. So far I've noticed that it needs to be rather close to properly light the person I'm interviewing. Do other people notice this as well? Is there something I'm missing? Is it worth it to just get the Rifa sooner rather than later and not fuss with getting the Tota to work as a soft key?

Thanks,
Matt Bauer

Hi Matt, the Tota has been the workhorse of hundreds of sets. It can easily be used as a soft fill. You need to remove the umbrella, which is most probably a small size one. It forces you to get the light too close to the subject in order to get a large diffuse highlight on their face, thereby acting as a second key light. Instead use a reflector on a stand, or bounce the light off a cheap matte-finish showcard. That will spread the tota's beam over a larger area, and therefore create a much larger source that does not generate shadows, but simply fills in shadows created by the key light. Make sure you don't use glossy foamcore, it defeats the purpose. Also make sure that the fill light is coming from near the camera, so that it fills in the face evenly. There are other ways to use the tota. Bounce off ceiling to create top light, or flood a background, and use a cukaloris to cut out patterns, or stack 2 through a 4x4 full stop silk to get a 1500W softsource.......

Thanks for the info. I'll give that a try tomorrow. What do you think about using a diffusion gel instead of bouncing off a reflector?

Thanks,
Matt Bauer

Diffusion gels don't have the reflective qualities neccesary to bounce light properly. They will eat up too much of your light. reflectors like these:

http://www.evsonline.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DL42MULTI

http://www.evsonline.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=1037

...will reflect a much higher percentage, thus getting about 500W from a 750W bulb. The silver side will get you almost mirror reflection, but not much softening. I have bounced 4 12K HMI's into a large polished steel pan and reflected them through a thick high-heat diffuser to get a very bright, far, soft hazy light like the sun. You can do something similar with reflectors, stack 2-3 totas and bounce them from one reflector. Just keep track of the heat rating on the reflector...

Lightbanks will do what you seek
 

However since you can get an 8000 kit for under 600 dollars with www.lighttool.com grids and an Avenger lighstand you may want to considerr the kit and use a bounce card for your tota.

However the options are endless. Get the 8000 kit and a tota ring plus a pancake lantern. Use the mogul kit light in the lantern and the tota in the 8000 kit.
Then get an avenger a 475b and kick some butt.

Thanks

r

I'm sorry, but I just have to take issue with Rush's comment that "the Tota has been the workhorse of hundreds of sets." What "sets" Rush? Motion picture sets? Or, interview "sets"? I have worked in the industry for over twenty years, and I have never seen a Tota used on a major studio set. Am I implying that Totas are never used? Absolutely not. I am certain there are some low budget shoots that may have a few. Somebody may even use them inside a soft box, which is probably their best use. And certainly there are many independent shooters that use them in softboxes for interview lighting. But to suggest that they are an industry "workhorse" on sets is an exaggeration.

The fact is that Tota lights are like using a chain saw when you need a scalpel. By design, they will spread light everywhere, which is why they have some value as a bounce source, as Rush points out. Unfortunately, this source will spray light into your background as well as your subject, which is usually not desireable. This is a big reason softboxes have replaced umbrellas as the method of choice for soft key lighting.

Sure Matt, you can add a few layers of diffusion to the Tota to try to make a soft key out of it, and even add black wrap all around it to help keep it off your background, but these are band-aid solutions and your time could be better spent elsewhere. Since you are thinking of buying a Rifa for a softbox, my suggestion would be to get an adapter ring and a softbox for the Tota. The top of the line is the Chimera, but there are less expensive alternatives from Photoflex and others. But maybe Richard will give you a deal on the Chimera with the student discount. That would be sweet. Now you have a dedicated use for that Tota, and you can concentrate on using more sophisticated instruments for the rest of your lighting. BTW, you will need a beffier stand than those standard issue Lowels to hold up a decent sized softbox.

As always, this is just my opinion.

Wayne Orr, SOC

Hey have you seen the Barger Baglites?
 

www.barger-baglite.com

I really like Ed Barger and his lights are being used on

Desperate Housewives and Joan of Arcadia and that is a fact, I was there.
Soon they will be using Liteshaper.com and Chimera's new Octaplus.
Why no one really uses a round bank in film or tv has yet to be explained but look for it soon. Why? Round Catchlight! Who cares? The artist doing the lighting! Why now? Why not!

As for as Tota's on Set it could happen but no one really goes out of their way to do it.

also I am thinking of selling a non rex bolex with pan cinar zoom that has rexviewfinder sharp but a little weird compared to today split but it is spit.
and some primes that work on non-rex. I have rangefinder viewfinder for side. Great spring ect, clean. Of value to someone who knows what it is and can do.

I will have to reboot my memory to get it all straight and I know our world is DV but I know Wayne for one understands the use of a good Bolex everyonce and a while.

Also since I am totally out of place yet talking to the write people

any Window person with a good palm like the T3 and bluetooth I have this awesome gps thing that is new and won't work for apple.. duh..

peace out..

I must say in the tota defense that if you take care of them, use correct bulbs and open barndoors.. they are a useful tool to have.

C'mon Richard. It's not really fair to say Totas are being used on Joan of Arcadia and Desperate Housewives because Ed Barger modified them and placed them inside the "Baglight."

"I must say in the tota defense that if you take care of them, use correct bulbs and open barndoors.. they are a useful tool to have."

No argument here, just wouldn't be my choice of "tool." My problem is in calling them a "workhorse" and giving the misleading impression to people trying to learn the business that they are buying real professional level gear. That would be like me saying that the JTL Everlight is the same as a Chimera because they are both softboxes. wink-wink, nudge-nudge. BTW, I never looked, but I would bet there are a lot of used Totas that show up on e-bay.

Good luck with the Bolex. Great camera.

Wayne

why did i know you would misunderstand
 

Wayne I am glad you wrote.

No I am not saying that.. Baglites are a whole species and they are doing great on those sets as well as fabric grids. The grips are sleeping the spill is so under control.. and I expect them to use the www.liteshapers soon as well as our Octaplus.

But I swear I got all caught up in the threads.. still trying to get on my bike.. and I had this cool vision..
you come to the nab booth. go.. hey richard.. what do you think of this and break a tota in half... pretty easy I am sure..

you throw it and I use a barger baglite as a Shield...

hey chris you might have to ref this match.

I acceed to the better man.

tota's don't fit the bill...

Ok am I still in trouble.. I just like the lowel guys .. if you have lowel problems and I can help let me know.. they recommend Chimera.. look for Eric at lowel nab booth but don't buy for the set or wayne will find us.

just kidding.. wayne I am working on a dinner. chris, me, you,HenryP
I am bringing the 6light baglite just in case though.

Hey Richard...are the Baglites rigged with Totas? I thought they were using the GE FCM lamps. Anyway, we're looking at a couple just now for some bigger set work than usual and they look really interesting. On that note, would I need different speed rings form our chimeras?
Thanks, Jim

Baglites
 

The Baglights use the same bulbs as the tota although Ed was re rigging his components to use the cheaper 1000 watt bulb instead of the 650 watt with the infarred coating that still gives out 1000 watts

And each baglite is like 3 or 6 tota's in a strong housing with the speedring built into the unit.


The 3 light uses video pro's or shallowbanks with shorter rods Chimera makes special to fit the Baglite.


the 6 light uses quartz banks

the coolest thing is you can carry 10 6k lights in your trunk.. maybe more.
If you need soft 6k's that is and a large source works great.

Each light has a seperate switch and the 6k has 3 powerplugs so you can balance out the power in a15- 20 amp situation

They have a wooden handle and burn even and all day.
Some of my dealers have them in house and I might be able to arrange a demo.

So if you Imagine the tota quartz ring with three totas but in a green heavy duty but not real heavy housing with a strong grip head like head so the bank does not nose dive on you under the weight of the Quartz bank - you have a Baglite... with better guts of course and they are on those sets I can pull a not so great still off my dv with terry hatcher and send it to you.
You really only see the Lightbanks more than the Baglites but that is what is in there.
The 3 light works pretty good with the Chimera Shallowbanks and those banks are great but really need an open source like a tota or a buglite head ect.
Thanks for your interest. ED is a good friend and I love to help him out

Ed can provide more materials and I can try to help
you can get more information from ED, me or www.filmtools.com stan
PS the tv sets were new to me having been more around motionpicture.
I was amazed at the minimal lighting.
A few baglites, a few chimeras, some fabric grids from www.lighttools.com
not many flags and a few fresnels about.

It was the desperate housewives ep where hatcher serves punch at some school thing

and joan of arcadia's god in the episode is a black woman janitor.

she is trying to get out the door and god is messin with her.
never saw either ep but I was there..
and so was chimera and baglites and lighttools

thanks

r

Heh, here we go again. I think Wayne has something against Ross Lowel :~).

On lower budget films and student films, Lowels are pretty common so I wouldn't necessarily argue with the term "workhorse" in that low budget context.

On larger, big budget union gigs where Wayne would be operating, Totas would be non existant.

A sizable chunk of the people on this forum are amateurs and students. They aspire to major studio sets where Wayne works, but don't have the budget, so they sometimes use Totas.

I love the Bargers, they're great. The six light pumped through a large Chimera gives beautiful light.


The Tota is good for using in a softbox, as a bounce, as a wash, background light, for copy work and a few other things I can't think of. The main problem is that it throws light everywhere, making it hard to control.

Get the Rifa, or a Chimera, or Photoflex softbox. The Chimera is the better box, in my opinion. Get an eggcrate, or some barn doors on the front that will help prevent light from spilling onto the background. Spill is probably the biggest problem with a softbox. The eggcrate will add a little more contrast and make the light more directional.

You can use your tota and bounce it into a white card, but you may also have to put up some black cards, or flags to kill the spill.

As was suggested, get the Tota speed ring #9510 and get an XS, or S Video Pro or Quartz bank. If you area getting a larger bank you'll probably want to get a larger light, like a 2K. But it depends on what you are tryng to accomplish.

Poor tota's....

I can wholeheartedly say that I know tota's are used on hundreds of sets, because I have personally sold and assisted my customers in setting up hundreds of kits with tota lights, as well as numerous other lowel, kino, and arri fixtures and kits. No, they are not Major Motion Picture sets, obviously, they are starter sets, photo shoots, interviews, small commercial interiors, TV productions, small documentaries, reality TV pilots, student films, small independent films, and what have you. You know, things people do to eke out a living in a tough world. There are people out there who don't have a "budget" to shoot with.

I personally started out with a Lowel light kit, and I still have a double tota kit with stands, that is the most compact kit I have ever seen. True I have grown my kit with Rifa's, pro-lites, arri's, and some mole's, but they are all good lights. And there is always a right time to use a certain kind of light, like the flood pattern of the tota.

I know that the soft light that comes from a Barger lite, or the tight controlled pattern from an Arri Fresnel, are much more of a DP's tool than a tota light, but those devices are not within the reach of most of my customers, and also a portion of the people reading these forums.

People want to learn how to use the tools they already have, or can afford, and the last thing they want, is a guy like me telling them they have to buy new lights for hundreds of dollars more because they are "better". There is no such thing as a better light. A thorough professional can easily make a tota's light look better than a nincompoop with 10 HMI's.

I have worked with many folks who only had $500-600 to spend on a light kit, and they have more time than money. In other words they would rather slowly sculpt light with reflectors and cine-foil than have to spend more money on new lights. Maybe, when they get better at their craft, they can afford more focusable lights with less spill. But as in the case of the gentleman I responded to, Matt Bauer, his quote was, "I will eventually get the Rifa soft light but for right now I want to use my Tota light with an umbrella as a soft light". So he didn't ask whether the Barger lights are better, or whether he can use the tota like a scalpel. He is not looking for advice on what to buy. He knows he wants a rifa, but for now, he has a tota. So how does he use it better? : )

Thanks Rush,

<< A thorough professional can easily make a tota's light look better than a nincompoop with 10 HMI's. >>

And this is an excellent point, in fact, it's the best statement yet in this thread. I would like to ask one particular individual here to please temper his continuous passionate crusade against Lowell, VariZoom and any other brand he deems to be the spawn of unholy evil this week, and concentrate instead on usability. The original poster asked for assistance with a particular set of tools. Let's discuss that instead of waging pointless brand wars, please. Many thanks,

Thanks Chris.

I don't know quite how to respond, since there isn't much written in the prior couple of posts that disagrees with what I said in my original post. Rush states that when he was refering to "sets," he was refering to smaller, lower budget productions. Fair enough. If he had stated that in his original post, I would not have bothered to place my response in the first place. I just felt that maybe some new people were getting the wrong impression about who is using the Tota lights.

There are a lot of companies out there trying to get a bite of your hard earned dollars. Some try to intice you with advertising, others do it with product placement. (Whose gear is on the cover of John Jackman's DV lighting book?) And others do it with endorsements from people you hope you can trust. Just remember: who pays for advertising and product placement? (You, the consumer, in case you missed it) As far as endorsements, it gets trickier. Some are genuine, and others have a motive that might conflict with your best interests.

I have nothing against Russ Lowel. I just don't care for his products, based on my personal experiences, and I always have said that is strictly my opinion. When it comes to buying a car, I suppose there are some of you out there who would never buy a Kia, and you have your reasons. Doesn't mean you're out to "get" anybody. Just a matter of choice, based on your experience.

Do I only recommend the "Cadillac" of equipment? Absolutely not. Those of you who have been following these threads know that I bought with my own money a JTL Everlight kit, tested it, and said, in my opinion, this is a decent light kit that will work well for beginners. But I also said it was definitely not the quality of a Chimera set-up. I tried to give you a fair balance of the good with the bad. To this day, all I have received from JTL is a cheap tee shirt for my troubles. Not that I am looking for anything else, because it would compromise my position. I also told you how to upgrade the JTL kit with a LTM Pepper, to make a real kick-ass package that will introduce you to real professional lighting. And in case you missed it, I was the one who first suggested Mark put his Tota in a softbox where he can get some worthwhile use out of it.

I have been in this business a number of years, and during that time I have learned a lot, and I also have made a lot of mistakes. If I can save some of you from making mistakes, I think that is a good thing. If I can teach you a few things, that is great. But I am not out to win a popularity contest; I will give you the "no bullshit" message as I see it. And when I am wrong, I will eat my words.

We all need to learn to be an intelligent consumer. Or, as Deepthroat said, "Follow the money."

Wayne Orr, SOC

I figured out putting a Tota in the softbox all by myself, quite a while ago :~) . Like you, I've been doing this professionally for a while.

Your experience and knowledge as a professional are valuable, it's just that your tone, at times, can be a bit overbearing. You blasted me once about Lowel gear and I was afraid to post about lighting for while. I think we're suggesting that you relax and not be so vehement.

We do want to hear what you have to say, because your experience is appreciated and valued.

"I figured out putting a Tota in the softbox all by myself, quite a while ago"
I am sure you did, Mark, and I never insinuated otherwise. I merely pointed out in my previous post that I was the first person in this thread to suggest to Matt that he do the Tota in a softbox gag. But it appears you took it as a personal slight. Not my fault. And despite Chris Hurd's testy comments, I was offering Matt a suggestion on how to use his equipment.

Believe it or not, I re-read everything I write to check for grammar, spelling, and yes, even tone, before I hit the "send" button. Sometimes I slip up and a clunker gets through, and anyone is welcome to call me on it. But please don't give me an "F" for giving my opinion, just because it may differ from yours.

As far as me "blasting" you personally, I would very much appreciate you pointing out the offending post to me so I can issue you an apology, if I feel one is warranted.

Peace?

Wayne

The whole concept of "professional" versus "amateur", movie sets versus...well pretty much everything else, is kind of a blurred open ended discussion these days. Rush laid out a list of uses for lower end lights that pretty much spanned every paying and non paying gig except for the next Speilberg film <g>.

Seriously though, I've always been a big believer and preacher of the "get what you can afford and don't rent" (obviously on small to medium projects). I've been of that mind set as a musician and producer, director and producer, creative director...pretty much any medium, the basic concept is the same.

It goes back to something I learned a long time ago as an amateur astronomer. The expression is something like: you'll see a lot more stars with a 4" refractor than with a 16" Schmidt Cassegrain, the idea being that if it's something you can grab and use quickly as opposed to something you have to laboriously tweak or rent, you'll achieve your ultimate goal faster and better.

I think it's better to get a cheap knock off guitar and practice your ass of than to wait till you can afford a custom Strat. Same for a $500 camera versus an Xl2 or an XL2 versus a Varicam...same for lights.

Back to the essential point though. I've seen major film scenes shot with a single Kino, and I've scene photo shoots block off entire neighborhoods, using several cranes, run out of lights from the biggest rig from LA and then send a grip to NY to drive out another truck...for a photo shoot!

It's all good. A Tota in a Chimera or a Silverdome (I have a few sets of these in travel cases) is just as smooth and professional a light as you'll find, as long as 750 watts is enough and it very often is. On the same sets and locations we'll have Arri fresnels, Kinos....hell even my favorite new discovery from Home Depot, the legendary $8 par can with attached dimmer (I just added 10 of these in two kits) with a range of narrow flood to narrow spots.

The fact is, 99% of the folks on this board aren't going to be producers or directors on Hollywood sets, but that doesn't mean that many of them don't or can't produce even better work with far, far less production gear.

Going back to Marks comment, I would much rather see a film maker of any stripe given 2- 4k of lights, a camera like the XL2 or DVX and enough time to see what their talent and skills can become, than to see another film maker, with another obscene budget, pedantic script and a hundred stunt men and CG people.

These days less really can be more in music and film etc... especially when the "less" we're talking about is producing some of the most important and memorable work today

Howdy from Texas,

Mark Sasahara wrote...

<< You blasted me once about Lowel gear and I was afraid to post about lighting for while. >>

This is *exactly* what spurs me to make "testy comments" and sadly it's one of the primary problems with internet message boards that I really don't want to see happening here. I would much rather make a permanent call as to who stays and who goes, than to allow one member to intimidate another into silence... because that sort of thuggery is the death knell of an online community.

Where I take specific issue is with the nonsense that somehow this particular forum needs to be policed with regard to purchase decisions by a zealous member who thinks he knows better and considers his fervant brand loyalties to be "unbiased." Sorry but there is no need for that here, as I have guaranteed that safety mechanism already. It is in fact one of the primary reasons why I started this community. To insinuate that the interests of this message board have been bought by the advertisements of sub-par vendors is a personal slap in the face to me. Of the very few companies that do sponsor this site, I have personally hand-picked all of them because I'm an enthusiastic believer in the quality of their product lines. I can't begin to tell you how much money I've turned away from potential advertisers because they just don't measure up to the demanding requirements I've established for a vendor to associate their name and products with this site. So when I read this statement...

<< As far as endorsements, it gets trickier. Some are genuine, and others have a motive that might conflict with your best interests. >>

...I find it more than mildly hypocritical because it comes from someone who is himself a forum moderator at another online community which is literally saturated with advertising. Now, how many ads do you see on this page? Thank you. What I do not understand is why a self-righteous crusader of advertising morality chooses to conduct his negative-publicity rampages in *this* particular arena, which clearly does NOT suffer from "a lot of companies out there trying to get a bite of your hard earned dollars." I would be a lot less testy if he instead confined his vehement smear campaigns to his own message board, where he can be that site administrator's headache instead of mine. Thanks,

Peace.

We'll sort it out. I didn't mean for anyone to get "into trouble".

This is a very old problem which has gone on far too long, but we'll definitely get it sorted out. Thanks,

I heard an old indian story about a scorpion that wants to cross a river and finally talks a frog into the job... well maybe it's not an old indian story, but that's the way it was told to me... see if Douglas knows it 'cause I'll bet he would find it funny regarding this situation...

Wayne knows it, and he finds it funny, even though he's not an Indian.

I ALWAYS enjoy reading your posts... even if you do tend to be a bit "abrasive"... I'd say that MOST of the time I agree with your end assessment of a situation... and your input is usually accurate and valuable. I just think you need to find a way to soften your approach to a difference in opinion... but I don't know if you can do that. Hence the analogy.