My new trailer
 

If anyone is interested, the teaser trailer for my new feature length production is up at http://www.the-silencer.co.uk

Any comments welcome.

Simon, very well done! the pace was nicely timed. images are top quality. you all should be proud of this project! (by the way, nice company logo too!) a few minor suggestions... have you tried the sound effect of the bullet over the white flash frame with a slight tightening of the reaction in the hospital bed?( i would be happy to edit a short quick clip showing what i mean if you would like to send me the before clip, after clip, and the shot sound in low resolution avi clips!) i think it would make more sense to be the "shot" instead of trying to convey that it was a flashback/nightmare scene. (at least thats what it appeared to be trying to convey but the trailer doesnt have time to properly set that up.) also, i am assuming you have finished wrapping the production so this would be an edit choice but the fight scenes are for the most part pretty good except for the one shot of the silencer giving the other guy a knee shot. it doesnt come anywhere close to being a hit and is too obvious to keep in. either grab another take or let it fall to the cutting room floor. (tough decisions i know but if you are trying to "sell" this movie either to a distributor or the audience, this shot will kill it. trust me on this... I made the same mistake on my first movies back in the late eighties. we tried to keep the length of the project to a "feature film" length and the results were a dragged out short film that went know where! (i went back and recut a few scenes to see how they would play and there was a dramatic difference in the scene.)
anyway, i hope these suggestion help. again...very impressive results. keep working hard at it! by the way, what camera did you use?

Marc Sacco
www.zenimage.com

Hi Marc, thanks very much for your comments!

I see what you mean about the gunshot. For now I will probably leave it as it is. But it's sort of a flash back reference, but not lol! Hard to describe. In the film it's not a flashback. What happens is that the character is shot while on a mission and left for dead. But he awakens in hospital having lost the ability to speak. The trailer was just conveying that he got shot. The gun shot sound will not be in the final film.

We are still in production at the moment with most of the action left to shoot.

I'm not sure what knee shot you are talking about? I don't remember choreographing a kneeing movement! lol!

I think you might be referring to the combination in the forest? If you are it's not a knee. His opponent throws a low Thai style roundhouse kick to his leg, but the silencer merely lifts his leg to avoid it being hit. Was this the section you were talking about?

Thanks again for the comments. They are very much appreciated! :-)

Can I ask what you used to shoot this? What camera, what lenses and what did you use in post for color correction? It looks very professional. I like the following shots:

00:30 I like the facial expressions, the background is awesome and I like how film like it looks without any video tell tale signs.

00:34 This boxing shot I enjoyed.

00:35 Hot.

00:42 The glass breaking is awesome

I'd look at maybe fixing the following things. They're not a big deal, but it's my constructive criticism:

00:39 That's a weird shot. He looks like he's dancing because he lifts his leg then drops it but there's no reason for the motion.

00:50 The last shot should be cool but for whatever reason, I'm not feeling it. It's a personal thing so it's your call. It's a cool pose, but I'm not feeling it.

Awesome work. Hope to check it out someday soon.

edit: 00:39 I think is the knee shot or the roundhouse deflection shot. I think that shot absolutely needs to be cut. I don't think it shows clearly he's blocking the roundhouse, he looks like he's fake kneeing somebody (which just screams amateur) and even when I knew what to look for I don't think it looks like he blocked a kick.

Hehe, the lifting the knee shot is not very popular! However you can trust me that it works in the actual film.

The movie was shot 16:9 and cropped for 2.35:1 so perhaps I need to do some reframing on that shot for the trailer to make it clearer what is happening.

I am slightly reluctant to say what it is shot on just in case a potential dsitributor takes a dim view! But for you guys, anything. I just hope this info doesn't come back and shoot me in the foot!

It was shot on an XM1 using an Optex 16:9 lens and was edited using Son Vegas. But shhhhhhh, I didn't tell you that. It might just be a rumour ;-)

Or prhaps I'll exchange that shot for an earlier part of the combination. The combo does work as a whole however. But for any future version of the trailer I'll bear that in mind.

YOU SHOT THAT ON A XM1???
Superbe Congratulations :-p Although I don't know a lot about image quality and so I am maybe one of the least approperiate persons to give advice or so, but I thought it was shot on HD or something. Really, looks brilliant for SD, let alone the XM1!!

What did you use in post production?

Good luck!

XM1 is the GL1 in PAL-land right? That's really, really impressive if it is the GL1 only in PAL. What did you do in post? Deinterlace? Magic Bullet?

My guess would have been the DVX100a with anamorphic adapter. It didn't look sharp enough for the XL2. However I wouldn't have been surprised if it had been DigiBeta or something more industrial grade. So very high quality. You've got some talent. Don't spend it all in one place.

Yep, the XM1 (or GL1 in the US). Thanks for your kind words regarding this.

It's getting harder and harder to keep the ideas coming for shots, although I think the use of the Glidecam and tracking dolly play a big part in things. I'm trying to source a jib or a crane for the rest of the shoot. It's also quite hard to work within the limitations of the 16:9 adaptor.

It was shot using frame mode.

yes, as hayden also pointed out that is the shot in question. regardless of its place in the movie and the whole fight scene, it needs to be removed because the audience/distributor does not have the full information to judge it by. they only have what you are telling them and right now you are telling them "hey this is a fake knee to the face that missed by a mile!" unfortunately these are the choices that need to be made to make a really good trailer into a great trailer. also, i am glad you see what i was talking about with the gunshot...again you probably should revisit that with the same critical eye just to make it crystal clear to the viewer. right now it isn't quite there yet. still this is a fantastic job you all have done on this project especially considering the camera used. (i like the canons and own a xl1s, but the xm1 must be a little challenging to work with!)

anyway, well done (clap,clap,clap...grumbling under my breath "why didnt i do something like this yet!" ) ;}

marc sacco
www.zenimage.com

Bravo dude!, amazing work. can't wait to see the whole thing.

One thing and this is just nit picking. I think the gamma might be too saturated, it looks almost like technicolor. the story looks dark and the footage doesn't follow that, try desaturating the color just a tad, or maybe crenking up the greens just a little bit and see if you like it better, if you are done with it I respect it and commend you for an excellent job.

Good job!

I'd also like to know what post processing was done to this. Since you shot in frame mode, I'm assuming you didn't have to do any deinterlacing, but what did you use for color correcting? The skin tones look great, and in the closeups there is a softness to the skin that looks like either tight diffusion or some sort of skin smoother/noise reduction plugin. There is also a pastel look to some things that is very nice.

As far as the shooting went, did you clip your highlights during the shoot, or in post? And how did you deal with the noise/grain in the shadows in post?

Ryan Graham

Thanks guys.

Okay, noise and grain in the shadows. Remember that the Quicktime movie is compressed in size compared to the original. Grain is only really a huge problem in large dark areas. But if you give the XM contrasty images to begin with it's not much of a problem. It does cause problems in diffused lighting such as when we had smokey interiors. But we have to live with it. I don't expect digibeta quality with an XM1.

The story is dark, but at the same time it has to be thought of as a modern day super hero style story. The hero is mute, but his bullet injury also stopped him from feeling any pain. Having desaturate colours was something I had thought about, but my co-director doesn't like it. I also kind of agree now as so many things these days are having the bleach bypass look applied etc. The gamma is fairly high on the trailer though. I bumped it up because the compression was making it too dark to begin with, so perhaps I went a little too far with it.

In the next incarnation of the trailer I will get rid of the infamous 'knee' shot! I'm just waiting on our composer to do some newer music.

For highlights, I exposed so that there was minimal highlight blowout. Anything else is done in post.

Thanks for the response, Simon. I was inquiring about the shadows because I know I've had some issues with my GL2 regarding the grain in the dark-but-not-black parts of the picture. Yours looked good, so I was just wondering if you'd used a noise-reduction plugin to get rid of the grain.

Did you use a diffusion lens during production, or did you add it later in post? And what program did you use for all the color correction/film look stuff? Magic Bullet? Cinelook? DFT?

Sorry for all the questions; I just really like the way your shots look, and other people around here with similar looking material have been less than receptive when it comes to giving away their "secrets"!

Ryan

It all depends on how contrasty the light is. Sometimes there is problem with grain in the shadows. But I prefer to just leave it alone as part of the 'character' of the picture. Most grain removal software always gives a processed digital look.

I used some black diffusion in post on some shots. Although the looks are not final just yet. I used Magic Bullet For Editors.

It's amazing the difference between here and other places! I threw it out into the dragons den that is another site's demo reel forum. They were quite harsh, although I expected that.

Regarding what the trailer is showing, what do people here think of what the trailer gets across. Aside from a technical standpoint, what is your gut feeling about what the film is about from watching it?

I've just uploaded a slightly changed version of the trailer. I've ditched the thai kick shot that people were confused by and replaced ith with an earlier part of the combination from the same shot. I've also swapped around one of the other shots as someone else was strangely confused by some of it. Personally I'm not sure why they couldn't accept it was different shots from different parts of the film, but anyway...

technically it is much better with the thai kick gone! that alone just brought your trailer (and consequently the perception of the movie as a whole) up a few notches. nice job!

as far as the feel/story line goes...first word that comes to mind is revenge. he appears to be going after a group of people specifically and taking them out. as for the girl, i like it but it doesnt link her to the plot adequately. does she get kidnapped or killed and this is part of the revenge? is she the final straw/ the thing that makes him snap? what is her characters purpose? its still not clear enough in the trailer. again, i like her being there but its not adding enough to the plot or at least leading me far enough down any path to intrigue me. i want more intrigue! tease us more with her character!

the other two shots were ducttape boy and heavybag boy. they are confusing because they look like the same person (maybe they are maybe not.) try reversing their order and see if that helps it. right now while wondering if its the same guy i am also wondering how he got from bound up to free so suddenly. if they were reversed at least that would flow better (for me at least!).

anyway, again...nice job. i am glad you are having a better response here than the other place. this is a nice neighborhood!

Marc Sacco
www.zenimage.com

I just hope people aren't as confused when they see the full combination in the film! :-)

Yep, it's revenge. The Chinese girl played by Maye Choo (had to give her a plug, she's a great gal) is the main characters ex wife. There are some complex elements to that particular story arc that can't really be explained effectively in the teaser. So I'll need to put that in the full trailer.

As for Ducttape Boy (lol I won't tell him!) and Heavybag Boy, they are different people. Heavybag Boy, or Chris as he's known in the film (Chris Jones in real life) is one of the characters you see in the opening of the trailer (and also turns towards the camera later on wearing a cammo jacket).

As far as I can see the punchbag shot comes before the shot of the guy taped up anyway.

You're right about this place being nicer. But I knew those guys would give it a hard time. Their demo reel forum was basically set up to be a hornets nest where people could criticise harshly without things getting too nasty. Then again, one of them said something along the lines of making a feature about grinding teeth being as good so....

Can anyone tell me if they are having any problems with downloading the large trailer? My co-director is saying that there is a black line at the bottom of the large trailer and that he's having trouble viewing it.

Simon,

Thanks for all the responses!

I had no problem downloading the large trailer. Looked fine to me.

I also got the theme of "revenge" from the trailer, and also got the feeling that it will have a lot of fast-paced action scenes. It was effective enough to make me want to see the film, so that's a good thing!

Good luck with the film. Keep us updated on your progress.

Thanks again,
Ryan Graham

trailer
 

great looking!! just the effect i love---i have a gl1-american verson of your cam and am equalily proud of it---funny how some first run units are difficult to improve upon---wonder if that could be said for HD.???---bob

Thanks Bob!

We utterly trashed our bandwidth limit yesterday! The servers have been overwhelmed! I had to laugh as there is a thread going on at IGN about how bad the movie looks! Oh well. No publicity is bad publicity!

If you do want a laugh, check here!
http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?to...start=73520435

Hah
 

Hey man I thought the production value is great and your actor looks totally vicious :) He reminds me of that dude from The Second Tomb Raider movie only with longer hair. I think that your movie looks fantastic for something shot with a mere GL1. Those wussies at IGN probably never even shot anything (I don't know why you posted there in the first place :) Keep up the good work man, once hollywood notices you won't care what the bad reviews had to say :)

Hey Simon,

actually I thought the thread there was indeed very funny to read :-)

I don't really like the genre of the movie (martial arts and stuff :$ not that there isn't more to it, but it is not what I really like) but it looks really stunning visually, and I agree with Dmitri that I think those people there never made something themselves.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks guys.

IGN is funny. Those guys are obviously of an average age of 13 or less. They came at the trailer from the wrong angle. Since the movie is a homage to the films of the 80's, 80's Hong Kong films in particular in terms of fighting, those guys at IGN probably weren't old enough to remember them. In fact I'd bet that most of them think that Rush Hour is Jackie Chans first film!

It's doubtful that those guys have made anything themselves. Although I really want the movie to appeal to people who don't make stuff. However it seems to be popular. We have receieved over 5000 hits since Wednesday, which isn't bad for a small site that has only just been put up. In fact we almost got booted from our server today!

A lot of people have given it a positive response. There will always be people who don't like it. everyone has their opinion and I'm interested in both sides of the coin. Although what really gets on my nerves is when people like the IGN guys refuse to give a low budget movie a chance just because it doesn't look like The Matrix or Spiderman. Oh well.

It's incredible where the movie has been featured. There's even an Intalian movie website with a list of forthcoming movies. They have one with The Rock, then one with Steven Seagal, and then under that there's our movie! They also have a full page article on the movie which I am getting my sister to translate.

I just hope we can sell the movie when it's finished!

Simon,
I thought that your answers were very relevant and informative - and that you kept your composure very well.
I doubt if the readers had even a quarter of your vocabulary though ...
As for the trailer, I really appreciated it.
I wish you all the luck with funding for more projects.

Robin

Thanks Robin. I've given up on them now. It is fairly obvious that none of them have left school yet.

Glad you liked the trailer. We hope to release the movie on DVD. We have a sales agent on board ready so hopefully things will work out. I really want to shoot our next feature with Cinealta :-)

Wow Simon, I am highly impressed.

I never would have guessed that was shot with a GL2.
Magic Bullet and good lighting work wonders.

Don't mind those pre-teen 12 year old boys over at IGN. They apparently know nothing about film/video.

That is some of the best film-like video I've seen done with the GL2. You pushed that to the max.

Few critiques:
The music in the trailer was totally '80s (unless that is what you wanted). I'm guessing that is why they said it would be something they see on UPN, because they mostly play '80's movies on UPN.

My guess is that they didn't like it because your movie is like an '80s movie. Not appealing to them, I guess.

I think it looks great and I would love to see what you could do w/ an XL2 or DVX-100a and a P+S Technik Mini35 adapter.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...creen_mode.htm

check this site out for more info about letterboxing and things. You can betetr record in 4:3 and do the thing in post. Just keep in mind when filming that you will loose the upper and lower part of your image. Just check the viewfinder of your cam or set it in the menu. It's the best and simplest solution.

The trailer looks all right. But I can see in some scenes the slowness and VHS-style camera handling. In the scene the man tries to hit the other man, that action is way to slow. And I miss lots of audio effects in the movie. WHy not include them in the trailer as well. That will improve and atrracts the audience. A background music is not enough for action movies. And well, I don't see any original in the movie that catches my interest reallyt. It looks like all the rest action movies. Some fighting scenes look promising. TRy to add some film effects to it (hue, colour, black/white gradients etc) in adobe premier or vegas.

peace

I got a good laugh at that IGN Board; very obvious they must be 12 or 13.

This trailer looks supercool (I had laready caught this over at dvxuser.com). My first impression was revenge as well. Very impressive compositions and editing. With a GL1 no less. This only serves to say "Its the man behind the camera.....". Still, get this man an XL2 or DVX100!

Very nice job.

My only .02 is to possibly insert other action scenes along with the 'forest' scenes. It seems there were alot of those clips and maybe some other 'looks' will give it an even greater scope. The music I felt could be more cinematic (I know; what does that mean; its subjective anyway).

Otherwise. Bravo! Very inspiring!

Really enjoyed the trailer, looked great from an XM1.
Sounded like the people from IGN were the nerdy mtv kids that would just follow everyone if something sounded cool.
You can't really take much constructive points from that younger generation from that board but I think it is important to listen to kids / teenagers. Just finishing school myself last year, I am now studying film at Uni and I appreciate all types of cinema however just wiping these negative comments off because they are kids is not wise. Children/Teenagers are at the cinemas a heap and are a major source of filmmakers income, mainly hollywood. The problem was people of that age expect hollywood effects because that is what they are used to when they go see a movie at there local cinema. They are not film buffs they just want to go see the latest movie that is advertised. So please don't take any notice of those negative comments and please don't think negative of all young people's opinions.
A bit off track.. but I feel the point needed to be made and I was amazed at the XM1's capabilities when used at it's full potential.

<<<-- Originally posted by Andrew Grix : Wow Simon, I am highly impressed.

I never would have guessed that was shot with a GL2.
Magic Bullet and good lighting work wonders.

That is some of the best film-like video I've seen done with the GL2. You pushed that to the max.

I think it looks great and I would love to see what you could do w/ an XL2 or DVX-100a and a P+S Technik Mini35 adapter. -->>>

Andrew: He shot it not with the GL2 but with the GL1! Yep, even more impressive :-p

<<<-- Originally posted by Mathieu Ghekiere : <<<-- Originally posted by Andrew Grix : Wow Simon, I am highly impressed.

I never would have guessed that was shot with a GL2.
Magic Bullet and good lighting work wonders.

That is some of the best film-like video I've seen done with the GL2. You pushed that to the max.

I think it looks great and I would love to see what you could do w/ an XL2 or DVX-100a and a P+S Technik Mini35 adapter. -->>>

Andrew: He shot it not with the GL2 but with the GL1! Yep, even more impressive :-p -->>>

OOPS. My mistake. Even more credit to Simon.

Thanks once again guys!

Often it does boil down to what you can do to work around the limitations of the camera.

Now if only the finance people would hurry up and give me my loan for the 2/3" camera!

How do you retain so much quality yet keep the file size so small?

Hi Simon,

Great work using an XM1! I’m currently in pre-production stages for a film that I intend to shoot in India next October. I’ll be using an XL2 with ps technik 35mm adapter. Your trailer suggests that dv, with correct tweaking, can certainly achieve a film look. Somehow this look is stronger in the outdoor scenes (particularly the forest) than it is in indoors. But that seems to be common to dv shoots, albeit a generalisation.

Good stuff! Do post when you sell your film.

cheers
Sameer