SI-1920 mini with steadicam Merlin
 

Hi,
I was wondering if we can use the SI mini with Merlin. Looks like the detachable head would be perfect for Merlin. The only concern I would have is the camera being too "front heavy" after attaching lens on it. I think it should work with the smaller lens. What do you think?

One can simply move the camera/lens back on the mount. At a pinch that might mean a little work making an adaptor plate but hardly anything complex.

It should work fine, don't see what would be the issues . . . with certain larger zooms being front heavy just means as Bob said, making an adapter plate that allows you to slide the whole camera head further back.

Just beware that with a small rig like that the camera cable will most definitely make it next to impossible to operate properly.

Although,
Correct me if I'm wrong, You could be wearing a laptop and streaming into that. Yes?
I was thinking of a small Laptop (provided it's fast enough) attached to the vest of my steadicam rig to stream the footage into via Cineform Raw.

questions being:
- Is this viable?
- Any specific Laptops you'd recommend? I am mostly Apple, but I have been thinking of a Tablet PC anyway (though a faster MacBook when Cineform does FCP is an option too)
- Would a Fast Tablet work?
- Is there a way to get the Mini and Upgrade to the full package when money comes in?

also don't forget that the SI camera with body ( recorder) the CMOS block is removeable from the body= removed it's basically a mini and you still can use the body to record ...

A fast tablet would work, although at this point we can't certify the GMA950 embedded graphics anymore . . . we're working on some cool features, and since our application is DirectX-based, you need to have some half-decent video hardware (meaning discreet chipset graphics from ATI or Nvidia, not embedded GMA950 graphics).

Thanks Jason,
ok so maybe I give up on the tablet idea (though I need one for other apps & it would be nice to use with SI mini)
http://global.acer.com/products/tablet_pc/tmc200.htm
though I am not sure of the NIC/ethernet port here to get the footage in

so, what will I need?
- Mini (doesn't come with Lense) but comes with Arri PL mount (?)
- laptop fast enough to run Cineform Raw & suck in the footage which I will then transfer to edit
- Lenses

Yup, basically that's the deal . . . BTW, you can also use the laptop to edit, and there's a couple more unannounced goodies you can use it for as well.

Thanks Jason,
I am very interested in the Mini
(Q #1) assuming it is possible to upgrade to the full camera?

but I can get a start with:
- the Mini
-PL mount (or does the head come with C mount? or F mount?)-------(Q #2)
-edit suite (Prospect 2K and Premiere)

(Q#3) If I am recording with the Mini do I have an interface (Cineform?) to control aspects of how I am recording (speeds/size/"looks")

(Q#4) If I go from Mini to Laptop is fast enough to use as monitor or can I use my Marshall hd monitor with componant in...ie what inputs/outputs are in th Mini besides Gig-ethernet?

I may need to aquire a tablet before and it would be great to know if "in theory" something like this would work? ( I am still not completly certain of the ethernet teather to camera) ------(Q #5)
http://global.acer.com/products/tablet_pc/tmc200.htm

Excuse the newbie questions, but this camer/workflow seem too good to be true

Thanks for all your patience & help ! I am greatly looking forward to Nov.
J

No problem, "newbie" questions are welcome here :)

Q1: I'll have to defer that to Steve since he's the one arranging the packages . . . in theory it is possible since the DVR and the mini use the same camera head

Q2: The camera comes with a C-mount and PL-mount . . . you can use both . . . you take off the PL-mount and you end up with a c-mount. That way you can use very cheap, inexpensive lenses, and then upgrade to "real" glass later on as your budget dictates. Or you can just keep a small lens on the shelf for quick grab shots.

Q3: Yes, there is a complete interface for controlling the camera and compression settings.

Q4: It's fast enough to use a monitor . . . you software supports dual-monitor configurations, so you can have two different monitor driven at two different resolutions.

Q5: I'm again not sure about the tablets, I know the dual monitor configurations need a dedicated GPU because the embedded stuff simply isn't fast enough. Ideally you want the fastest workstation-style laptop you can get your hands on.

I hope this helps, and the cameras are not far away (shipping VERY soon).

Thanks,

Jason

Jason,
Thank you so much !
The tablet, I know, was probably not a great idea.
I have steadicam and strapping a small laptop to the vest to both use as monitor and recording device is Very intreguing

I can't wait to see what's coming in Nov

Thanks again,
John

Ok, I have to admit that I don't know very much (at all) about this camera.

How thick is the cable from the head?

Almost *any* cable at all will cause trouble with the Merlin.

- Mikko

cable is networking cable ( cat 45 size i believe) ..
take a look around at pictures/clips from "spoon" production

http://indiefilmlive.blogspot.com/

The spoon guys were using the cat5e/cat6 ethernet cables with their rigs and didn't have any issues. Performance was wonderful.

Hmm, Network cable is genrally prety stiff and could cause trouble with a light rig. Some nice flexible UTP would work fine with a larger (vest & arm) rig.

Pity there are no cables attached to the camera in the video clip linked above, it would be interesting to see how much it affected the rig.

I'll have to try a peice of CAT5 off a FX1 on my Merlin and see how it works..


- Mikko

there's cat5 cable in EVERY shot - it's the only way they can record the shot using the mini .. i'm not sure where they run it off the steadicam ? along steadicam arm then down vest ?

http://indiefilmlive.blogspot.com/

This video: ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_...lyde%20cam.wmv shows no cable leaving the sled. I don't think that the camera was recording at the time.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5...20cam_0001.jpg

The picture furthur down the page isn't clear enoguh to see if there is a cable or not. It looks liek there may be, but I can't see where it goes.

It would be interesting to see some video of the rig in action with the cable attached.

- Mikko

BTW, they didn't let the cable simply drape off the back of the camera . . . it was constrained.

But network cable is much lighter than a BNC cable, triax, or anything of that nature . . . plus there are various flavors of cable. Some are very stiff, but I've seen others that are quite flexible and shouldn't cause too many issues with a steadicam rig. Of course I don't claim to be the steadicam expert, but I'm just saying we're not getting any negative reports back that this has become an issue for people, so I'm assuming the work-arounds must be sufficient to quell any general complaints about the system.

Oh yeah, cable management is every day stuff for Steadicam, there is a lot of operation done with cables connected (thoguh special cables are normally used - for exmple we have special triax cable that are like a peice of wet spaghetti that we use in place of the big thick regular triax)
I'm just not sure if you coudl find a flexible anough network cable to work with a rig as light and precise as the Merlin.

That fully loaded Glidecam thats in use on this shoot in question is much heavier and can handle a larger cable.

- Mikko

Cables used on spoon
 

Hi guys,

Sorry I'm sorry scarse. Not for lack of will power just time. Would be great to get questions about spoon tech and processes in one place. I will try and sort something out on the BLOG so that there is a "database" of questions in one place. That way I can more efficiently get around to everything.

On spoon we used cat5 dual core cable. So there are actually two cables in one - one for input and one for output. Geffen vga extenders were used with one of the cores to provide video feedbak. With some engineering this could be made even better. Though cable on the Glyde cam was no problem. And in fact cables presented no additional problems over conventinal set workings in all cases. Even underwater stuff was straight forward. I would prefer to use Glydecam on cable over straping any more gear to the operator as cable is little trouble if any.

Simon

Earlier this summer I did a feature with the Panavision Genesis with the recorder remoted to a backpack worn by one of the assistants. I had to manage dual solid-core BNC's off the rig that were relatively flexible compared to most BNC cable but not the truly floppy spaghetti strand style that I use for SD cabled work. With a 60lb rig, these cables created enough of an influence to reduce my operating precision by around 5-10%, depending on the move. With a system as delicate as a Merlin, it is hard to imagine how flexible and lightweight a cable would have to be to not exert force.

Everything is possible, and compromises are relative, and results are subjective. But cables are always a hindrance to a certain degree.

I agree, and that's why our DVR package doesn't have cables . . . it's completely self-contained.

Charles: I was wondering if there are any fibre conversion kits or something that
allows you to run the signals needed over a very thing fibre-glass cable?