PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

After a few nights of shooting in the field, it became obvious my new X70 suffers the exact same picture (color) defects as my X900, including yellow skin tone, and blue flashing lights that look green. So I spent a little time putting the X70 on the scope to try and massage it a little. I was able to correct the levels on the waveform, and rotate the entire vector image, but only from a hinge point on green. I am not good on the terminology here, but there are no rotation controls, only a phase control, and that is all I could adjust for. The vector colors still cannot be pointed at the correct locations, unless I am missing a menu setting. See below for some comparisons, and the ITU709 setting adjustments to achieve these 3200k preset correction. Top are stock PP4 REC709, bottom are the adjustments. Shot of CX900 is stock left, adjusted right. DSC chart lit with 55watt Lowel IDLight 3200k indoor preset.

ADJUSTED SETTINGS
Black level +10
Color phase -2
W/B shift
Filter R-B
LB +1
R gain +1
B gain -1

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Paul, thanks for the detailed testing!

So far, are you finding the image quality of the X70 to match that of the CX900 as should be expected?

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

This was just my "first round" of playing with the settings. I used PixelConduit (free) which is a program that gives you a full set of scopes using the BlackMagic Mini-Recorder as the video input. I will put the little guy on a real scope later this week. I am having a lot of trouble with white balance calibration. Unlike the CX900 and AX100, this camera cannot push to white properly once you calibrate the deep settings. There are independent phase and such setting revisions for each push to white memory, which you must separately calibrate on a scope. A significant problem to aligning these cameras is that they seem to think 3200k lighting is anywhere from 3600-3800k. The indoor preset is a solid 3200k, but as stated, the camera sees 3200k as several hundred kelvin higher.

I should also mention that for alignment purposes, for levels, I put the knee on manual at 95%, to get everything on the correct IRE lines. Someone mentioned on an online X70 review that the knee didn't change anything for them. On the scope, the knee will move your highlights something like a full 40IRE up and down! So my hope on this camera is to calibrate everything to the 3200k "indoor" setting, then include appropriate WB revision values which allow accurate push to white balancing for A and B. The outdoor preset will need to be checked for adjustments that allow 5600k to be spot on. Manual kelvin adjustments will also be verified.

Paul

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

More testing, this time with those white balance settings. They turned out to not be white balance settings, but are in fact two sets of phase controls. This presents a problem, because this means you can only account for changes on two vectors......the wheel has more, and as you will see in the future, when you have to choose to fix the worst offenders, you run out of correction allowances to adjust the remainders. Anyway, ITU709 is useless on this camera, and I found I had to change to STILL color mode to get the vectors in a more realistic pattern. So here are the new settings I have come up with so far, with a picture comparison of stock and then these new settings on the scope, so you can see where the color alignments are going. Abandoned the indoor preset, and simply pushed to white which got me 3300k. Since the push to whites on this camera do not automatically adjust deeper color and phase settings, manual kelvin, push to white, they all just do numbers, no deeper meaning.

Black level +10 (this brings the DSC blacks up to proper 10IRE level when the whites were set to 100IRE)
Gamma ITU709
Black gamma middle and 0, no adjustments
Knee set to 95% for scoping, but found that auto knee at 100% really works well
Color mode STILL, this was the only setting which looked correct on the vectorscope
Saturation 0, but you might want to put a little pop in your picture
Color phase +1, needed to rotate the whole wheel a notch so things lined up better
Color depth no adjustments, these don't show up on the scope
Color correction type FIRMWARE PROBLEM?

I was making good progress with the color correction memories, but after fiddling with it for a few minutes, the changes do not apply any more. I couldn't figure this out, so I copied another PP that was working, and began making adjustments again, and it too stopped "taking". This appears to be an issue with the firmware in the camera, as you can be in the middle of going up or down, and the vector picture snaps back to normal and the adjustments simply stop working. Sending off a help request to Sony on this.

For those interested, the Sony manual for the X70 lists phase values that do not match what the cameras push to select color selector reads off the DSC chart. See below for the DSC chart phase values for making adjustments manually.

Blue = 31
Cyan = 25
Green = 19
Yellow = 15
Red = 10
Magenta = 5

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Given a choice will you still buy this cam?

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Absolutely. It is everything my CX900 was, but added a whole slew of features I found I really was wanting on this platform. In my work as a TV news shooter, I actually use this little camera daily for live shots. Although not perfect, the manipulatable systems in the camera do provide for a markedly improved picture.

Paul

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Went to try out the cam yesterday and was impress with it. With the xlr handle attached the cam becomes front heavy though. Since they're 2 xlr port will the cam record 2 internal channels concurrently with the handle attached?

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

In the menu, you can select which mic or mic jacks you want active, the XLR's, the internal "mesh" mic, or the 3.5mm plug in power side jack. There is also an "AUTO" setting which switches between the built in and XLR whenever you mount or remove the handle.

Yes, the handle makes it front heavy, but I typically use this camera with a 16x9 Inc EXII wide angle, which is about 2 lbs itself. A bit of a strain, but nothing more than most of your 3 chip HM650 types.

Paul

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

This stuff about vector scope adjustment to correct a colour issue is a bit out of my league - but it's made me anxious. Flashing lights and yellow faces! I'm in the game to buy this camera and I thought it was broadcast quality. In practical terms what does all this mean? I shoot mini-documentary stuff that generally ends up streaming on the internet BTW. But I do want good quality footage.

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Same here Terence.

Paul, everything I shoot is either not super color-critical, or I have time to manually white balance. And, I always have time to leisurely tweak color correction, whites, shadows, gamma, etc. in post.

Are these color issues you're finding real faults of the camera that white balance and post cannot correct, or are they due to your news reporting deadlines requiring color and exposure to be dialed in as perfectly as possible in-camera?

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

yeah, i gotta say that sounds like some total nonsense if thats whats necessary to get a nice image out of the cam. thats what the guy at the rental house does with an f900 (way back in the day that is), not what you should have to do with a much simpler camcorder. EX1 for instance, just turn the thing on, turn picture profile OFF, white balance and you'll likely have very nice images.

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Well, for those not familiar with the vectorscope, when you see a color tip on either side of the "box", that color will be tinted in the shade of the other box it is pulling towards. The DSC instructions stated to dial in red and yellow first, then the other colors, as red and yellow are important to getting correct skin tones. I redialed in the camera on a real $5000 vectorscope, and got the reds and yellows a lot closer than previously. This isn't really a white balance issue, as you can get white perfectly centered, but if you your red vector is halfway to yellow, you end up getting neon red/orange reds. One cool menu function I will make note of is the PP white balance off-sets, which you can toggle between a R-B or magenta green alteration, and store those values separately. This is an extremely useful toggle in the world of LED lights, trust me, you will love it.

I want to try me new adjusted settings in the field and learn more about how the adjustments effect all the different white balance settings before posting a finalized set of suggested adjustments. It is always best to have the best colors you can start with before post, that simply means less work. As the camera comes stock, Sony may have tried their best to get certain colors more accurate than others. This idea doesn't do much for me, because I find the stock colors (same as my CX900) to be awful. My big concerns in night time news, is yellow faces, too dark blacks, and blue police uniforms that appear purple. My specific use of this camera highlights these to me, as they are 90% of what I shoot. I can live with blue police lights being greenish (cyan).....that's just slightly irritating.

I highly recommend simply setting color mode to STILL and black level to +10, even if you do no other adjustments. STILL provides a much more correct vector pattern, and will be easier to correct in post. +10 black level really makes a big difference as well, it's not black stretch, but the stock settings bury the blacks so deep it's not even funny.

Paul

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

If anyone out there is sufficiently experienced with correcting color in FCP X, please drop me a private message. There is only so much that can be done with the in camera settings, but having the DSC chart means you can actually create a color correction preset that you can apply to EVERYTHING you shoot prior to grading. I would love some help manipulating the final vector that is always tilted. :-)

Paul

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

So to sum up, would you say that simply white balancing as normal does not produce "accurate to the eye" colors across the board on this cam?

Again, I'll reference the EX1 and say for the most part (can't really think of an exception but just to protect myself), if you have one of the typical colors of lighting (3200, 5600, something like that) and white balance to it, your colors will generally look accurate to real life. . .i.e. you look at a guy's shirt in real life, look through the viewfinder, looks the same, ditto skin tones, etc. And of course that translates to stuff looking right on a better monitor as well.

That's not the case with the X70? I was hoping this cam might be my savior but this is all sounding like too much trouble to me. ..

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Well, here is the thing, the color corrections setting affect both the preset, manual, and push to white functions. The problem is, it affects them differently. I mainly use a LED with this camera, so I have tuned a separate Picture profile on the scope for LED. PP1 is my 3200k settings, and PP2 is my LED.

If you do the color correction settings while in preset, or in manual white balance, it will not white properly (colors will be off) with push to white. If you color correct after pushing to white, the presets and manual settings will be off. Auto W/B voids all adjustments. There is no way I have found, other than separate picture profiles with custom color correction settings, to dual use this camera switching between incandescent and LED. The closest you can get, and this may be a workaround, would be to switch between video and cinema W/B off-set settings. One of those adjusts red-blue, good for 3200k massaging, the cinema one adjusts magenta-green, perfect for LED. The thing is to toggle that, you need to enter PP custom settings screen. It's much simpler and easier to make a separate PP for each.

Here are a couple of still frames I shot tonight....having white balance issues so I shot these in AWB. These all use the +10 black level. My LED calibrated settings made everything further than 5 feet yellow and green......switching to my incandescent to see how it handles LED, will post more pics of how those new settings work. These cameras stock always produce VERY yellow skin tones, and blacks have a yellow tint when under high gain, with blue speckles.

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

I guess that begs the question. . .what kind of LEDs do you mean? I have a client who has a set of 1x1 Ikans that are bi color (have a pot to switch, in 100K increments, anywhere between 3200 and 5600) and dimmable. A couple of the higher end DPs in town really like them as well. We use them and white balance as we would with tungsten, no issues. See what I'm getting at? We don't really have different settings or methodologies for those LEDs vs tungsten.

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Cheap 50CRI eBay $30 LED. :-D

I have a separate thread seeking accurate 3200k LED lights,

I am much happier with the 3200k setting, the cheap bad CRI LED's skew the vectors all over as you would expect. The 3200-3300k scoped settings should be perfect for daylight as well, I just wanted to hash out exactly how the settings apply themselves before finalizing them. As long as I can get push to white to match the manual kelvin, I thin that is a success.

Paul

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Although I do some simple grading in FCPX, this is almost certainly beyond my expertise. I assume you mean you want to use the Color Board to set things like you want and then save that as a Preset. But as for actually helping do the CB settings I'm not really qualified. My suggestion is if you don't get help here, post this over at fcp.co

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Reading this thread. What I think you might need is actually Davinci Resolve 11 Auto Color Match feature. You'd shot the chart and you use the color match feature to properly calibrate. Now if only there were a way to send that info to FCPX.

Here's an example of how that works though.

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

BTW my own understand of these issues is that I suspect one shouldn't assume these problems are specific to the X70. My understanding is that different cameras have a bit different "color science" so they may be off in different ways. At issue is whether you can perfectly compensate.

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

David, what I am looking for is to be able to correct IN CAMERA as best as possible, then provide those settings, as well as a sample 1080 4:2:2 video file with those settings shooting the DSC chart. Would be nice if someone could load said file into FCP X, Vegas Pro, Adobe etc, and provide color correction settings for the NLE that would bring any uncameracompensatable variables into line. The hope would be that the in camera color correction settings as well as the NLE companion settings would allow someone to bulk align all of their raw footage prior to grading or making other changes.

Any further suggested in camera settings will include a link to a ProRes LT 4:2:2 1080 30p video file of the 3300k (The Sony says my ID Light is 3300k) lit DSC Camette chart, so that users can have a calibrated scene to align to.

Paul

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

The X-70 could potentially make a great second camera, provided I can cross-edit X-70 footage easily with that from a PMW-200. At least without too much hand wringing (or vectorscope twisting) for out-of-the-bag stuff. I was making the assumption that as part of the Sony EX series it would have the same overall "look" on canned settings. But is this true? Can anyone with a deeper insight of this pipe in?

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

I was shooting a film festival right next to a shooter with an EX1. The colors were way different between his camera and my CX900 on stock settings. On playback at 10Mbps h264, he said my video looked better than his.....heh.

Paul

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Good call on the PP setting.
I had already settled on STILL as the most pleasing color rendition, but looking at the footage in Premiere I could see that the blacks were really crushed.
With the black level at +10, it seems to open the blacks and extend the dynamic range a bit.
I used to agonize over the complex PP settings when I was shooting with an EX-1.
I'm hoping to keep it way more simple with the X70.
Outside of the WB issues, are you using PP "STILL, BL +10" for both daylight and low light shooting??

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

What's daylight? I work the overnight shift, I still think the ND filter is to assist the camera in floating when dropped in the water. :-)

Seriously though, daylight W/B should be fine with the 3200k set-up, as the camera actually has a +/- W/B shift for 5600k outdoor preset. Don't know why they didn't include that option in the indoor preset. Once I get the camera dialed in for 3200k, I will see what works well in the day. Day is different than night. All the blacks and highlights and high gain really push certain elements of the picture. I loved Cinema mode on the CX900 in the day, but it was horrible indoors under LED lighting or at night.

Paul

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Paul: One thing I found over the years doing picture profiles is that while a DSC chart is a great starting point, in practice trying to precisely match one can often be detrimental to the cameras overall colorimetry. There are several things to consider.

The DSC chart is using very narrow and precise colors. Your vector adjustments will only be targeting these individual narrow band hues and you may not be aware of what is going on with all the in-between hues.

No video camera has perfect uniform color response, especially bayer sensors which will have some large peaks and troughs in the color response. The relationship between how these peaks and troughs line up with the 6 primary vectors used by a DSC chart will greatly effect the overall colorimetry. Getting a perfect single hue may result in an overall color response that is skewed.

Often the more you try to precisely put a vector in the right box on the scope the more issues you will see in in between hues.

So, while I will often refer back to a DSC CDM chart for a sense of the overall matrix line up. I would never use one to create a picture profile where the overall colorimetry is more important than putting vectors in boxes. Also, the best pictures are rarely "perfect" pictures, often a little warmth or some other adjustment away from perfect will give a more pleasing image. One of my preferred ways of creating a picture profile is to use a photograph or picture of a real world scene. It's much easier to spot rogue colors in a "real" scene than by looking at a test chart.

Having said all of the above the last frame grabs you posted look pretty good with the exception of the blood which looks to be a very strange hue.

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

OK, finished up the calibrations. Lit the chart with 55watt IDLight. Did a push to white, got 3400k, set manual kelvin to 3400k, and began adjusting. I am providing calibrated settings for both ITU709 MATRIX and STILL color modes. STILL was able to be corrected much more successfully than the ITU709 MATRIX. As promised, I am providing ProRes LT 4:2:2 1080 30p files of the charts shot with the settings listed below as well as stock ITU709 PP4. I am also providing pictures of the actual vectorscope monitor for each set of calibrations, as well as the stock ITU709 MATRIX PP4. These settings are good for setting manual kelvin, and only an ever so slight full matrix shift to red was noticeable when push to white was engaged at the same kelvin. The white blob still stays in the center, and all color vectors stay on the correct lines. For reference, this DCS chart is 50% saturation visually, so it looks dull, and requires saturation boost in post if you want to see the colors stretched to the boxes. These settings are as close to the boxes as I could get, I spent several hours adjusting everything a hundred times over. I adjusted RED on target first, then adjusted BLUE on target. Like I said previously, you only get two adjustments, but I feel pretty good about these calibrations. Magenta is slightly off, but look at the stock calibration and you can see that every color except magenta is off by at least a full shade.

The next post will include the vectorscope photos, and the ProRes files. All files will be in the following order: STOCK ITU709 PP4, CALIBRATED ITU709 MATRIX, CALIBRATED STILL COLOR MODE.


GOOD: ITU709 MATRIX CALIBRATION
Black Level +7
Gamma ITU709
Black Gamma not adjusted
Color Mode ITU709 MATRIX
Saturation 0
Color Phase -3
Color Depth not adjusted
Color Correction
Color Revision
Memory Selection 1&2
Memory 1 Color
Phase 28
Phase Range 31
Saturation 25
Memory 1 Revision
Phase +15
Saturation -14
Memory 2 Color
Phase 10
Phase Range 14
Saturation 0
Memory 2 Revision
Phase +8
Saturation -3
WB Shift not adjusted
Detail +3

BEST: STILL COLOR MODE CALIBRATION
Black Level +7
Gamma ITU709
Black Gamma not adjusted
Color Mode STILL
Saturation 0
Color Phase -1
Color Depth not adjusted
Color Correction
Color Revision
Memory Selection 1&2
Memory 1 Color
Phase 28
Phase Range 31
Saturation 24
Memory 1 Revision
Phase +8
Saturation -14
Memory 2 Color
Phase 10
Phase Range 11
Saturation 0
Memory 2 Revision
Phase +8
Saturation -3
WB Shift not adjusted
Detail +3

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

STOCK PICTURE PROFILE 4 ITU709 MATRIX SETTINGS

VECTORSCOPE PICTURE

http://1drv.ms/1scS6Ub

ProRes DSC chart file

http://1drv.ms/1scNM7t

Select DOWNLOAD to access the raw ProRes file.

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

CUSTOM CALIBRATED ITU709 MATRIX SETTINGS

VECTORSCOPE PICTURE

http://1drv.ms/1oQrWAK

ProRes DSC chart file

http://1drv.ms/1oQpj1O

Select DOWNLOAD to access the raw ProRes file.

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

CUSTOM CALIBRATED STILL COLOR MODE SETTINGS

VECTORSCOPE PICTURE

http://1drv.ms/1scSylx

ProRes DSC chart file

http://1drv.ms/1scPaHj

Select DOWNLOAD to access the raw ProRes file.

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Alister, those still grabs were with the AUTO WHITE BALANCE, so the calibrations I put in went out the door.

Agree with what you said, which is why I commented previously that they may have skewed the stock settings for reasons I am not able to comprehend. If you look at the new settings I came up with vs the stock settings, you can see things like the red vector pulled strongly to orange, which you can see in anything I shoot as orange car taillights and such.

I hope that by providing these settings and files, that users can introduce them into their NLE when using the calibrations, knowing they match up, as a "starting point". :-)

Also, the form won;t let me upload jpg photos....strange.

Paul

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

Alister
I would like to know what PP settings you used on the X70 for the train demo movie you shot for Sony, if you remember?
You were always the helpful guru for PP settings on the EX 1 when it was new. I think the EX 1 was the first experience dealing with all of those parameters for a lot of us.
I'm sure many of us would be grateful for anything you have to share regarding using these settings to design presets for the X70.
Thanks

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

I am still getting pretty significant cyan curves into green. The calibrated settings listed above include several figures that are not necessarily "prefect". What I mean is, there are some things such as saturation and secondary phase settings that can be manipulated wildly, and not show any changes on the scope at the DCS standard lighting level. I uploaded a test clip to YouTube, and put some still grabs below. For some reason, blues are bluer when wide angle, but change to green when you zoom in, or when the saturation level intensifies. I will rescope the camera and find the variables in the settings that will not affect the colors on the scope, then adjust within those allowed settings in the field to weed out the strange color shifts. Hopefully, this will keep the DSC colors accurate, but also correct for colors outside of the charts saturation range. For reference, this camera as well as the CX900 I own both have this green blues and orange reds issue, hoping it's resolvable.



Paul

Re: PXW-X70 + DSC Chart + Vectorscope
 

I've done some MAJOR revisions to my original custom settings. I am vetting them in the field before posting my final PP calibrations. I am calling this my "direct-to-air" calibration. It is meant to be basically a do almost anything "default" PP setting which the camera should have shipped with to begin with. It is intended for those who wish to cut and air raw footage, and should not require any color correction or modification prior to broadcast. Special attention was paid to get skin tones accurate, as these are a major problem with these 1" sensor Sony cameras.

I am including a bunch of still frame grabs from the raw 720p AVCHD footage I shot overnight, just to show how the colors, contrast/gamma, and detail modifications look. I will post the final "direct-to-air" calibrations once am certain I cannot get them any more accurate than they are for their intended purpose. :-)

Pictures will show full size when clicked.