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-   -   X70's 4K (UHD) Capabilities? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-4k-ultra-hd-handhelds/525470-x70s-4k-uhd-capabilities.html)

Mark Watson November 2nd, 2014 01:13 AM

Re: X70's 4K (UHD) Capabilities?

Originally Posted by John Nantz (Post 1865656)
In order to extend the life-cycle of a product, or compete with new items from the competition, it seems that manufacturers have discovered ways to make little improvements but perhaps without changing anything physical about the unit, like:

Add Pre Record or Retro cache, or extend the time
Add a Time lapse option
Add another/new recording format
Add two-channel recording capability
Improve color management

These are things that can be improved upon with updates to the firmware

Later in the product life-cycle, the MSRP gets lowered and then the last step is to sweeten the pot by throwing in some overpriced accessories.

If the design gurus can build in some features, say in the circuit boards, that can be accessed with firmware updates then this can make it easier for the marketing department later on to add new selling features.

Buying a camera is almost like playing poker - if it's not needed right away then wait a couple months until the price softens a bit. If all the new features (4K?) aren't really needed then pick up an older model but without all the bells and whistles, where all the positives and negatives are known, and the price has come down significantly. NAB is, what, six months off? So there will be more new gear.

It's not a three-ring camera so on that level it can't really compete with the truly pro models. Make a dent? Sure, but how much? What about a dent in the competition's market share? Hold out on the upgrades and the competition can take the wind out of your sails.

Guess this why the CEOs get paid all those big bucks.

This will be interesting to watch.

Well John, I have to agree with your line of thinking here. I've been terrible at trying to predict what Canon will do next, so I just wait and see nowadays. One thing I would add is that it seems lots of equipment is getting rushed out before it is really a fully functioning system, with promises of feature-enablement in near-future firmware releases. Now, being the cynic, I have to wonder if this "premature release" is to get us to invest our limited funds in their product, get our money tied up, so when we later find out that it will be months, not weeks, before the features we want are available, we have no choice but to sit it out since we've shot our wad already and cannot jump to the other camera that came out yesterday with everything working as it should.

One more thought is that while I try to understand why certain design decisions were made, I can only imagine that these companies have the marketing team on one side and the very capable engineers on the other side and they do not see things the same way. So it's the "bean counters" vs. "eggheads" if you will. Some give and take going on, which explains the odd-ball stuff we see in some designs. Now, this brings to mind the recent newspaper ad ran by Canon to announce their new See Impossible campaign. Reading the ad, I thought this has a tone of some kind of "payback" to all the doubters and naysayers. Like Canon's thin-skinned marketing dept. read every negative comment in the blogosphere and took it personal and now it's an ad that has a "Revenge of the Nerds" ring to it. I can't believe that ad campaign got top approval. Do they not see themselves as a large corporation, well respected for all the fine cameras and lenses they've produced? Their ad should reflect a more respectable image. Just a casual observation.


Hans Stephan November 26th, 2014 02:41 AM

Re: X70's 4K (UHD) Capabilities?
german video-magazine ... big, but imho a bit "sony friendly"
have publicise some details about the 4K update

here in native german language
=> Sony PXW-X70: 4K-Update - die Details

here a bit "gibberish" translated per google to english language
=> https://translate.google.at/translat...-text=&act=url

to 30p limited
HDMI out ...yes, but is only 4:2:0
about internal recording is imho not clear written 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 respectively 8 bit or 10 bit

Ron Evans November 26th, 2014 07:10 AM

Re: X70's 4K (UHD) Capabilities?
Looks to be the same as the PXW-Z100 update XAVC-L, 420 8bit MXF as expected but limited to 24/25 30P. The Z100 has the range from the FDR-AX1 which includes 50/60P up to 150Mbps. Didn't reference the bit rate but I expect its 60Mbps just like the AX100 though it may increase to 100Mbps which is an option on the FDR-AX1 for 30P.

Ron Evans

Mark Watson November 26th, 2014 09:26 AM

Re: X70's 4K (UHD) Capabilities?
With it being a "Pro" camera, Sony had to do better than give it their "consumer" XAVC-S codec. What bit rate can SDXC handle? I'd guess this camera will be limited to 60Mbps for in-camera recording, possibly higher bit rates with external recorder. XQD media used in FDR-AX1 can do 1Gbps.



Ron Evans November 26th, 2014 09:46 AM

Re: X70's 4K (UHD) Capabilities?
I am still doubtful that there is any difference between XAVC-L and XAVC-S when 420 8bit 3840x2160 is concerned other than one is mp4 and the other MXF. As I see it XAVC-S has a frame size limit and bit rate limit that XAVC does not have. But is there any difference at the same frame size and bit rate ? It would be nice to know .

Ron Evans

Mark Watson November 26th, 2014 09:43 PM

Re: X70's 4K (UHD) Capabilities?
I see Panasonic HC-X1000 and GH4 are using the SDXC cards for their 200Mbps bit rate video, so at least that much is possible in-camera. Fun to speculate. I don't think they'll do it though, price is too low overall and they would have announced the specs earlier if it were more impressive.

Edit: Why did Sony use XQD in the FDR-AX1 if they are only going up to 150Mbps?


Ron Evans November 27th, 2014 08:12 AM

Re: X70's 4K (UHD) Capabilities?

Originally Posted by Mark Watson (Post 1868990)

Edit: Why did Sony use XQD in the FDR-AX1 if they are only going up to 150Mbps?


Because the FDR-AX1 is really the same camera as the PXW-Z100 with some things missing ( SDI and time code connectors ). The main differences between the two is firmware. Just like Sony have done in the past between consumer and pro models like the AX2000 and the NX5 etc. The PXW-Z100 first came out with only iFrame recording, 10bit 422 and needed to record 600Mbps for 60P. The PXW-Z100 has only just got XAVC-L to get the same record times as the FDR-AX1 with V3 firmware just released. The V3 firmware for the AX1 made the SD card slot work and allowed recording AVCHD 2.0, still to come for the PXW-Z100 and both models still do not have the USB host connector working or the data code for XAVC or XAVC-S !!! They both use XQD cards but the FDR-AX1 can use the slower N cards but the PXW-Z100 has to use the faster cards to record at the highest rates.

Ron Evans

Aaron Holmes November 29th, 2014 04:36 PM

Re: X70's 4K (UHD) Capabilities?
As somebody contemplating moving to an X70, I'll admit: I'd rather have 4K60 (with necessary modest increase in bitrate over the AX100) than any other framerate/bitrate/chroma sample/bitness combination. The 4:2:2 isn't a huge deal for me, personally. I have held a friend's X70, however, and I hugely prefer its body over the AX100. The zoom rocker is approximately 1,000,000x better than the AX100's. And I do want the XLR.

I tend to shoot primarily in available light, so 10-bit sampling doesn't really do anything for me either; those extra bits would just be noise most of the time, and therefore no more than a burden to the codec. Give me... 80-100Mbit/s 4:2:0 8-bit 4K60 in this package. I'd like that.

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