Re: Working with HLG footage
 

The problem is those scope readings have black start at 64 (10- bit) for HLG they should start at 0 in Resolve (I am aware that in other software this may be different) in case of a night shot.
You are absolutely sure they are not log shots?

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

Confirmed, I don't ever shoot in log. I also find that he Z90 black level is always a few IRE above 0...if you close the iris and put the lens cap on, record a completely black clip, it will show above the 0IRE mark.

Paul

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

Every professional Sony camera I've ever used has elevated black levels at around +2 to +3 IRE. The first paint menu that needs to be changed when you take a new camera out of the box is to drop the master black level on a Sony camera so that the a waveform sits right at zero with the lens cap on. That one change makes all the difference.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

Looking at the chart it is a lot higher than that for Paul's camera, black pretty much starts at 64 (10 bit levels). Now for software that scopes super whites and blacks that is exactly right but not for Resolve (and also for Premiere), both video and data levels are mapped the same way between 0 and 1023, super whites and blacks are not normally shown on the scopes.

It's rather strange if this came straight out of camera.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

Agreed Doug, I can CONFIRM this. ON my PMW320, and the PXWX320, the master black level must be set to -2 for the black to sit on the 0IRE line. Same for the X70/Z90/Z150...I tend to leave mine stock, because honestly, most viewers of our news don't calibrate their TV's, and run dynamic contrast, so they typically have monitors with way too low black levels. I think that's probably why Sony pushes the cameras out like this.

On my Z90, I found I need to set the master black to maximum -15 just to get shadows and blacks to not look elevated in daylight video. Even with gamma assist I find it hard to shoot in HLG, exposure in daylight is difficult to determine, not hard at night though. Zebras don't work in HLG...I mean they work, but not as expected or in any predictable manner...Doug?

Paul

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

On the Resolve media page set the clip attribute data levels to 'video'. Black should now be at 0 IRE for a clip you shot in HLG.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

Look at the RH side of the Resolve WFM. Blacks are at 0.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul,

1.) In Resolve Project Settings - Color Management:

- Color Science - DaVinci YRGB Color Managed
- Check the box for 'Use Separate Color Space and Gamma'
- Set Input Color Space to 'Bypass'
- Set Timeline Color Space to Rec.2020 - ARIB STD-B67 HLG
- Set Output to Rec.2020 - ARIB STD-B67 HLG

2.) On the media page:

- Right click on clip
- Set Attribute Data Level to 'Video'.
- Set Input Color Space to 'Bypass'

3.) On the render page - Advanced Settings:
- Set the Data Levels to 'Full'.

Proceed with the render.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

I have zero interest in HLG right now and consider it a complete waste of time, but with that said, I have no doubt that zebras could easily be used to set exposure.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

That is just some noise, the overall black level is way too high.

HLG requires video levels.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

OK, finished a quick low quality test clip using the Resolve settings you provided, looks much better. I found that on my PC spitting out normal SDR 8 bit RGB, that if I switch the TV to HLG mode, I get the same HDR picture as playing the file back through my TV via USB...that's nifty. So I might have a bit too much black crush? Here is the clip on YouTube, tell me what you think...it looked brighter when I shot it, and the shadows are brighter, but noisy, on the raw. I also included a side by side of a Resolve export FULL vs VIDEO levels on the render setting as the only difference. The YouTube version is FULL on render output.

Additionally, the settings you provided produce a file that plays back looking like a normal REC709 on an SDR screen, and HDR on HLG enabled monitor, so that is good. :-)

Paul

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

Great news Paul! Thanks for posting the clip, looks excellent.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

THANK YOU TOM...looks like you posted the "secret sauce" that makes it possible to work in Sony HLG...at least in Resolve. Seems FCPX is totally incapable of properly dealing with HLG at this time. Not surprising there, they are always way behind.

Paul

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

Using a Sony PXW-Z90, I set PP1 as SDR REC709 manual knee, and PP2 as HDR HLG/709 auto knee (auto knee required for HLG). I then turned gain to max 33db, started pointing at things that would blow out and clip the highlights, and toggled between PP1 and PP2. I laid the clip on a standard SDR REC709 timeline, and exported without any grading or color space changes, as it was set to 709 instead of BT2020 under HLG color space selector. As you can see, the HLG1 (Sony 87%) PP just sees things that the REC709 doesn't. Exposure was locked down, so no exposure changes were happening when I toggled the PP's, you are seeing the HLG gamma doing some sort of magic...W.O.W.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

Hi Paul,
I know this is an old thread however, did you find any advantage using HLG on Z90 vs Cine 4 or Cine 2 for your style of work.

I've just started shooting HLG3 on my Sony A7III with excellent results and I also use my Z90 in Cine 4 with Doughs profile, I know these are completely different cameras, so was wondering about your results with the Z90.
Cheers mate

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

Not playing around with HLG any longer. The black level on the Z90 in HLG ios too high, and I am not motivated to figure out how to set it properly. I did slightly play around with creating an HLG calibration for my Sony HDR TV with a meter, but the lack of real time HDR/HLG output without spending $500 makes it a real PITA to do even simple grading right.

Anything that I shoot in HLG to output as REC709 always looks pretty bad, specifically because the black levels are all wrong, too high, looks bad. The monitor on my Macbook has such a high black level and bad contrast it's not really possible to grade blacks or shadows on it.

Paul

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

Thanks for that info mate, this is what I also found however I needed a second opinion.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

HLG is designed to be used ONLY for "live" output and broadcasting with 10-bit cameras. It is not intended for processing in post and it is not intended for 8-bit video.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

That's just sheer nonsense.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

It's right in Sony's own documentation. Look it up.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

I have to say that using shooting HLG on my Sony A7III and delivering this as rec709 via FCPX has resulted in the best looking footage I've got outa that camera to date with the least amount of post grading work.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

Well if Sony says it it must be true........

I have worked on countless HLG videos in post.
I must not know what I am doing! :)

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

S-LOG = best for a post processing workflow.

HLG = for live broadcasting and monitoring in a 10-bit environment.

Simple as that.
Just because you can pound a nail with a screwdriver doesn't mean that the hammer wouldn't have been the better choice.

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

On my Z90 the HLG results are not great however for the A73 the results are excellent.

My work flow
Shoot HLG3 BT2020 PP10 on the Sony A73

FCPX
Rec 709 project
Import footage
Color Space Overide Rec.2020 per clip
Results look great, colours look natural.

I might have this incorrect however as I said, great results

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

I'm not familiar with the A73, does it have an S-LOG mode for comparison to the HLG mode that you say you like?

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

Yep, the A73 has Log profiles which I have found to more of a hassle, I normally use Cine 2 or Cine 4, however lately HLG3 has been my goto profile.

I wish there was more info on HLG and FCPX workflow as there's two two distinctive Color Space Override settings: Rec. 709 & Rec 2020
They both look great with Rec. 709 being less saturated

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

If you're happy with the results you are getting, then nothing more needs to be said. But that does not change the fact that HLG is not the recommended mode for post processing. Alister Chapman and I disagree about a lot of things, so when we both agree on something we are probably correct. Especially since what I posted above is also the official stance of Sony -- which is the developer of S-LOG and HLG. They ought to know what they are talking about.

What is HLG and what is it supposed to be used for? | XDCAM-USER.COM

Also, if you don't want to do any true color grading in Resolve, and instead choose to stay in an NLE such as FCPX, then you're not really getting the full bang out of S-LOG anyway, so a comparison to HLG is flawed. You think you like HLG but that does not mean S-LOG wouldn't be better if it was given a proper run. Have you used S-LOG3 and graded in Resolve?

Re: Working with HLG footage
 

I have graded SLog versions in Resolve and they work great.
SLog in 8-bit however is a disaster.