The only tale I've heard (first hand) of solid state media failing was a friend using a CF card in a DSLR when it died. The first thing he'll say is that it was a very cheap non-branded card, and since then he has always used branded cards.

Professional still photographers have been using flash cards for quite a number of years now, and I haven't heard any reliability issues from anybody. I've also heard first hand from one photographer who left a CF card in his jeans pocket when he put it in the washing machine. Not only is the card still in current use, but the data on it was fully intact afterwards.

So you seem to be able to freeze them and put them through a wash cycle.... anybody think of any other tests!?!

OK, that's good to hear. It's not like I have any doubt that solid state is the future, it's just currently it still hasn't gotten to the price/capacity to beat Professional Disc for my needs yet.

So accepting that SxS cards are durable, what about all the SDHC cards being suggested? I mean, they can't be as good as SxS at 1/10th or 1/20th the cost in every way, right?

No, their maximum data transfer speeds are slower. But since they are still more than fast enough to cope with writing rates in normal usage, the only real drawback may be that you won't be able to download from them as fast. But the huge price difference means that's a price that a great many people seem happy to accept! :-) That also means more cards can be owned, and it becomes less imperitive to download just to free up more card space for further shooting.

Only other issue may be that they are more "fiddly" than true SxS cards, but there is a possibility of an ExpressCard memory with "normal" flash specs and price, but in an SxS like form factor. (See the Verbatim thread in the EX forum.)

What isn't clear is how long the data will last on the cards in normal storage. Years certainly, but the very long term may not be as good as for tape or disc. As an acquisition medium that may not matter much for most people, but it's worth bearing in mind.

Just a comment from a one man company, who mostly does cooperate work.
I have been using the F 330 for nearly 3 years now.
In my world I won’t trade for an EX camera. One of the main things is archiving of raw material. Yes you can set up system for archiving, but as it is for now, I can just put the XDCAM disk on the shelf… The form factor is also an issue in my opinion.
The only thing, I can se, in a real world situation, is that the EX is more light sensitive.
I have given up takes because of low light situations, but if it should make a difference, the camera should be at least two stops more light sensitive.
I have been looking into the step up to a 700, but what I really would like, is a more light sensitive 3xx with a 1920x1080 sensor.

what I really would like, is a more light sensitive 3xx with a 1920x1080 sensor.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with you Brian! In addtion, I would like to see a LCD monitor similar to the EX-1, or a OLED viewfinder.

That's what I thought when I got my EX1. The EX1 would be the B camera to my F350. However once I saw how much better the EX1 looked, combined with the improved sensitivity the EX1 and then EX3 became my main cameras and the F350 now only comes out for a few clients that also have F350's.

The workflow isn't that terrible. Sure I prefer the optical disc workflow, but I'm also finding it very useful having all my material from various shoots on a hard drive ready for instant access. Of course I have a second drive as a backup plus DVD-DL's and Bluray discs of any footage I need to keep for 5 years or more.

I was working with a PDW-700 yesterday and I really missed the colour VF of my EX3.

Though now if you use SDHC plus an adaptor it's not much more expensive to treat the SDHC cards in the same way. The way prices are going, it won't be that long until SDHC is actually cheaper per GB than XDCAM discs.

You certainly give me something to think about!!

If the picture quality, the workflow and the VF, on the EX3 outclass the F 3xx, then it all comes down to the form factor!!

Then I have to ask the question, is that deciding factor?

If Sony updates the F 3xx, so that it will produce an equal or maybe superior picture to the EX, then I will certainly stay with the the 3xx. As it is for now, you got me thinking!

Regarding the storage on memory cards, I am not comfortable with that solution.
If I should use a card based camera, as a daily tool, I would use a BR solution, either as a standard BR disk or an U1 and a XDCAM disk.
I don’t trust HD drives and cards as a long term storage solution.

Form factor is an issue, I agree. But the EX3 is very versatile and it is easy to add a shoulder pad and put larger batteries on the back to get a good balance. The EX3 advantage is that you can then make it smaller for when you need to travel.

I have some very old 64k compact flash cards and I can still read the data from them. I don't see any issue with using SD cards for long term storage.

Is there an adaptor for standard V-lock batteries??

Is there somewhere, where I can see a picture of an EX3, with attached shoulder mount?

I have a friend who owns a photo shop, on occasions costumers come in with faulty memory cards!
I can’t say why, but it happens… But I don’t trust them!

Hi Brian,

Yes, Bebob in Germany manufactures a V-Lock mount for the EX3. It's the COCO-EX3-V.

bebob COCO-EX3-V V-Mount Batterie-Adapter für Sony EX3

Yes, you too can look like THIS!
http://www.videokit.co.uk/cgi-bin/st...gi?pid=652.htm

Just kidding.

The VF Gadgets tripod plate doubles as a shoulder mount. I'll be commenting on that add on in another thread.

I believe someone else on these forums had modded their CAvision shoulder brace for the EX3 and he was managing to balance it perfectly on the shoulder.

The same could be said for anything though. I've had tapes on MiniDV that were rubbish and full of dropouts. I've also had tapes go blank on me when I've left them in a (dry) cupboard for a few years.

That was one of my reasons to get a camera from the PDW-F3xx serie. My camera is not full HD and isn't as good as the EX1/EX3 in low light, but looking good with your camera also must be worth something. :-)

http://www.videokit.co.uk/cgi-bin/st...gi?pid=652.htm
Give him a starwars helmet and he can walk straight into the clone war…

Simon you are of course right, all kind of media have its fault, I am just more comfortable with a media that is not dependable of electric charge.

Maybe I will book a demo for an EX3. One thing for sure sometime in the near future I am in the market, for a new camera. Maybe Sony will come up with my favourite 3xx model or I will find the big wallet for a 700 or just settle with an EX3. For the moment I am not sure. A couple of bigger projects are coming up, let’s see how they develop.

Of course it full HD, so's a Varicam, they just get there in different ways. The F900 is only 1440x1080, not full HD?

Steve

Don't forget the CMOS shutter, I'm yet to be convinced about it, but for others it seems to be a non-issue. I'd advise anyone going for an EX to try one first (ie shoot pics of the sort you normally shoot, get them to your post suite and look at them). But then that's sensible advice for any camera surely?
Steve

I'd thought I'd address the archival issue and EX vs F3xx.

If you look at B&H you'll see 23GB XDCAM discs ranging from about $20-$27.
The Transcend Class 6 SDHC 16GB can be had from around $25-$30.
If that's an acceptable price range for archival, those Transcend cards are not much more expensive than XDCAM disc. If space is an issue (and it is in many offices/facilities) you can certainly pack a closet with many more SDHC cards than XDCAM discs (but labeling is a bear!).

If you need to hand the client the camera master, the client is going to have NO PROBLEM finding an SDHC reader and it'll cost a lot less than a U1. BTW at a 4X copy speed you'll be able to back up that SDHC pretty fast before you hand that master over.

If long record time is your issue, pack two Sandisk Ultra II 32GB cards in that EX and you've got just nigh 4 hours. That 64GB certainly is competitive in record time to 50GB XDCAM disc. The gotcha is the 32GB cards are still pricy and at $150 a pop, aren't quite the archival bargain the 50GB disc is. I think they're many months away from being price competitive with 50GB discs though. Do keep in mind that you can buy 2 Transcend SDHC 16GB cards and have them loaded in EX camera for about the same price or less than 50GB XDCAM disc.

If you do ENG/VNR super fast turnaround that 4x SDHC copy speed is nice and nearly 8x if you use SxS, is blazing. Of course XDCAM disc has proxy files but with SDHC/SxS you copy the "master" and you're done and working at full resolution.

As to shoulder mounts, keep in mind JVC is moving to XDCAM EX codec too. The HM-700 looks to be its 200/250 replacement. It's shoulder mount and it'll record to XDCAM EX .mov which is an additional speed up for Final Cut Pro users. I don't doubt Sony will have an "EX5" which will be shoulder mount (and maybe some other nice features).

By NAB, the only big advantage of the F3xx series may be the cost of 50GB discs. There may be other smaller advantages but the EX advantages are mounting. Future EX firmware updates may unlock additional features in that series. There's good reason why Sony doesn't let local dealers, let alone users get the firmware.

Just for a point of clarification, that would be the F3x5 series. The first generation cameras can't use the dual layer discs. Nor can they be upgraded to dual layer drives.

-gb-

Frankly, that rig is a bit too much. I much rather use a F350 instead...

Thierry.

Not sure it will make any difference for most users. The only time there would be an advantage is if you edit directly from the card. Most users will copy the files from the card to the computer prior to editing which is no different to the current workflow where the MP4's are re-wrapped as they are copied.

If you do choose .mov files you could end up with an issue if you need to then pass on your project to a PC user as PC's cannot read mpeg in a .mov wrapper.

I copy BPAV to hard drive first and then rewrap.
I'd never rewrap without backing up BPAV first.
Rewrap from hard drive seems to be about 6.5x so importing a MOV would be faster.
Of course you're right about starting with MOV as opposed to a generic format.
The JVC camera does record to a generic format which JVC doesn't mention. My guess is that it's the same BPAV/MP4 that the EX uses since it's the same codec.

It seems JVC Korea has a pic of the JVC HM700 (which looks like the JVC 250) which I've posted elsewhere on DVInfo. Apparently JVC USA does not want the pic posted though for whatever reason.