F350 First serious shoot.
 

Well I have just returned from a weeks storm chasing shooting severe storms in the US with my F350. During the week the camera got put through hell as I shot in 70mph dust filled winds, hail storms and supercell thunderstorms. It performed faultlessly. The timelapse function is wonderful for cloud motion and the progressive mode captures lightning very well. The image quality is fantastic. HDV struggles shooting heavy rain or hail as compression artifacts start to show, 35mb XDCAM is much much cleaner.

My main gripes are the quality of the colour LCD, it would have been nice to have the same LCD as the Z1. The F350 LCD appears soft and colours washed out.

The audio level controls seem to be trickier to set than on a DSR570 or Digibeta and the auto audio levels appear to be very high, although I havn't noticed any distortion.

The 2 inch VF is nice and sharp but you do need to use quite a bit of peaking to be sure of critical focus and the high peaking makes critical exposure judgement difficult as the image looks less bright.

Things I really like include the direct clip access and the ability to quickly delete the last shot, useful for me when shooting lightning as I can avoid disk wastage by deleting blank clips. I like being able to mark shots so I can add a mark to indicate a particularly good clip.

The picture quality is excellent. I love gamma 4. The standard gamma curve is not nice.

Being able to work with the Mpeg4 proxies for web uploads saves time and diskspace.

All in all a great camera, power consumption is reasonable, my 120Wh batts lasting 4 hours ish.

All I need to do now is work out a decent edit workflow. I was hoping Avid xpress pro 5.5 would handle XDCAM HD but I see no mention of it in the tech specs. I'm going to take a look at Avid Liquid and Vegas, but what I really want is to be able to use the cineform codec as will often be mixing XDCAM and HDV and I love the cineform quality.

By the way and off topic.. we were shooting some material for BMW of a brand new mini cooper in and around the storms. We got into a ferocious hail storm that pounded us with tennis ball hail stones propelled by winds measured at 96mph. The car got ripped to pieces, all the panels facing the wind are extremely dented, a window was smashed and all the plastic trim shattered. Makes for exciting viewing!

Great post. Thanks for all the info. I've heard similar complaints about the LCD issue. I've ordered a 350 as well and can't wait to use it...

Shame you weren't back earlier, I've had a 900 for the last couple of days that would have made an interesting side by side test.

Alister,

Have you seen the paragraph in the manual relating to MPEG 4 licensing? It's on page 158 of my manual and says the MPEG 4 license is only for personal consumer use. I guess this means we can't sell any MPEG 4 proxy material off this camera.

My only other knock is that there is no way to put video into the camera. So, it can't record anything on the disc other than what comes off the camera head.

Where in the U.S. did you do your storm chasing?

-gb-

Please post some grabs Alister. I've seen your hailstorm sequence, glad the camera didn't get whacked.

Greg, isn't that typical of most professional cameras--that you can't feed video directly into the camera? Same thing on the DSR500, and before that on my Betacam cameras.

You can put video back on disk, trough file access mode.
Some edit programs can also use this method, to upload the finished project in the original format.
The benefit of FAM is that you can use the disk, to store all your files regarding a project, including your edit files.
When you plug the camera to your computer, using firewire, it acts as a hard drive!

I am going to try that Brian as soon as Apple/Sony get their software released. At this time, I have nothing that understands XDCAMHD .MXF files. But I was already wondering if that could be done. The question is whether or not any software will be able to write a compatible .MXF file back to the disk that the camera won't balk at.

-gb-

Bill you have hit on something here. This camera is the first camera I have owned or operated at this level so I was unaware of this typical limitation. Having come from the Canon XL line, I'll admit to being in a steep learning curve at the moment. (grin) But it's a fun learning curve!

Thanks for providing that professional tidbit.

-gb-

Greg,

Have you shot anything in the "OverCrank" mode yet? I am curious as to what degree does the loss of vertical rez in the "anything over 30p mode have to the quality of the picture? Is it noticable? I have pretty much narrowed by HD camera purchase to either the Sony PDW350 or the Grass Valley Infinity, now that the Infinity will do 24p & 30p, but still no "Over or Under crank" I shoot a lot of 30 second spots and I see a BIG advantage in using the OverCrank of the Sony for some very creative spots.

Haven't as yet Scott. I've been doing strictly 60i at 35mbs thus far. On the plus side, the camera does do a nice downconvert to SD DVCAM out the firewire port. I have done some FCP captures that way just to work out a compatible SD workflow for other projects coming along that are going to be delivered in SD.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I am waiting for the .MXF file support because I don't have any HDSDI capture capability at the moment. The file access mode is one of the things that sold me on this camera for HD work. Just have to wait a couple more weeks for the software to catch up.

Most of what I am doing so far is learning the control locations by 'feel'. Coming from my Canon XL cameras, this is a major re-learning curve at the moment.

regards,

-gb-

I shot some 50fps footage and am very pleased with the results. Given much of what I was shooting was clouds and sky scenes, which don't contain all that much detail you could not see the resolution drop. I did a couple of test shots with passing cars and you can see a small drop in resolution but it is so slight that it dosn't bother me given how nice the overcrank looks.

Was on the phone to Avid and they confirmed that Xpress Pro 5.5 will support 35Mb MXF, even though there is no mention of that on the web site.

I shot an extreme sports event last weekend with the 350 and used the slow motion function extensively. AFAIAC if anyone could tell me that they could spot it was half resolution, I'd say they were lying! It simply isn't noticeable at all.

I also did some undercranking too, very subtley. Again, great results. Sometimes a little tricky to follow in the viewfinder though because although it plays back very smoothly, it is very jerky while looking through the VF unless you choose exactly half speed or double speed.

UK Prices?
 

If you don't mind me asking where did you UK guys get your 350's from. What lenses did you get, and what did you pay?

TIA, Duncan.

In my case they were on loan from Sony. However if you want to look at prices there's http://www.creativevideo.co.uk, Mitcorp, Visual Impact, Gearhouse. Loads of places.

Symon or Alister,

I have set up some shots where I feel I should be able to see the effect of flipping on DCC. However, I am not seeing any highlight reduction or any indication by the camera that DCC is on. To be fair, the manual doesn't mention any indicator of DCC engaged but I was wondering if one of you could check yours to make sure I don't have a defective toggle switch.

regards,

-gb-

Greg.

I have tried the DCC with some trees out of a window. I definitely se a reduction in blown out highlights.
Actually some leaves on the trees outside, that was blown completely out with the DCC of, came to light with it on.

Are you sure you haven’t set the EZ mode to on, as this function turns every manual settings of?

I have been thinking, why not leave it on all the time?

Another ting about highlights, the gamma setting cine4 also helps on blown out highlights.

I found Cine 2 to give by far the most dynamic range capture. This is confirmed by the gamma curve diagrams Sony sent me. I tried it on a sunny day from inside a room with a blind that covered half the window. I exposed the interior to give a realistic reproduction of the light levels in the room. STD gamma etc blew out the view outside the window. Cine 2 however brought almost everything back into view. The other Cine curves also blew out the window to some degree. You get a flatter image though and it will need post work. Maximum outut on cine 2 doesn't reach 100ire. All the others go up to 110 and beyond. STD gamma doesn't roll off at all. Instead it is a gentle curve all the way to maximum output and gives 100% output at 100% input.

Cine gamma 2 gives 100% output at 460% input. I would like to get one of the cameras tested by a good engineer to see if it is possible to cram a full 600% range using black stretch etc into the picture with this camera. It should be possible to achieve a very wide range with good adjustment I think. Trouble is, setting it up isn't helped by the fact that there is no test SAW output option. Theoretically the others should give a wide range. Although the only way is for someone to try and and then grade to see how much info there is in the highlights. Even then it isn't usually a good idea to try and retrieve information from the highlights like that due to banding issues. So I would say that Cine gamma 2 will give you highlights at the level that you want, while also capturing shadow detail and a very smooth curve all the way through the ranges.

This is all said with the caviet that I am no expert. Just my observation from info I have collected, and much trial and error. Try it and see. Just remember that the cinegamma curves are not meant to be used out of the box. They need grading for the most part. Also don't forget that the cameras also have a Cine matrix setting to go with the curves.

DCC is an odd one. Sometimes it works well, other times not so well. You need to try it on a shot by shot basis as it may not give the best result every time. I have stopped using it.

What DCC does is take the knee point that is set in the PAINT menu and then adds multiple knees above that point up to the white clip, or maximum output if you have white clip turned off. These knee points vary continuously as you move the camera. The problem with this is of course similar to having autofocus turned on. Sometimes you can see it adjusting mid-shot. I have also found that DCC can be too harsh and highlights suffer more blow out because it is working to the electronic ideal of what is the maximum highlight information, and not necceserily what actually looks best.

So DCC doesn't reduce highlights. All it does it attempt to cram as much information above the knee point as possible. I doubt DCC would give you much more useful information than just using Cine 2 with DCC turned off.

Just what I was afraid of Simon. DCC also has a dark side!!!
Funny, every automatic function, that is designed to make our life easier, ends op kicking us in the a..

What you are saying about the cine settings, is extremely useful.
I have noticed that some of the settings gives a flat picture, that’s why I like cine 4 it helps to some degree to the highlights and the picture is still nice.

I know what the terms means and what knee and gamma is but I would really like Sony to produce some graphic diagrams, shoving what happens with the curves, when you make an adjustment!

What I am also missing is some literature that in deep explain the pros and cons of fiddling around with the settings.

Until I find that.


This forum is the holy grail.

Thanks Brian, but no I didn't have ez mode on. I am running it in standard config on STD gamma and matrix.

The manual makes DCC out to be akin to a 'back light' setting on a still camera but I can see Symon's point about it changing and adjusting in mid shot. I have a bird feeder that hangs in the shadow of the tree limb it's attached to and wanted to expose for the plumage of the birds without blowing the sky detail out.

Brian there is a link on Symon's website to a PDF by Sony called Camera Technology Basics. It was written by a Sony employee to put several concepts into layman's terms as much as possible. About 76 pages and well worth it. Including everything you wanted to know about DCC.

-gb-

Ok, I just found the answer. I went into the paint menu and found that Knee was set to OFF. I verified that with it ON I see the effect of DCC, with it set to OFF, the DCC switch has no effect on the image.

I guess it's hard to adjust the knee point dynamically when it's not on in the first place...doh!

-gb-

Visual Impact in the UK have some ex G4 challenge F350's and F330's at well discounted prices. Ask for Tim in sales.

LOL Greg! Yep, if the knee is off DCC won't work. Puzzled as to why it was turned off on your camera though.

I bought Mike Devlin's F-350. He moved up to the HDC1500 to get as much image lattitude as possible. So to answer your question, I didn't get it new in the box. I went ahead and loaded a standard scene file into the camera so that everything will be in default mode(no more gotchas) and I can tweak from there.

It's a quantum leap from the XL-2 but not beyond my technical comprehension. BTW, thanks for that link to the Basic Camera Technology document by Sony. I downloaded and read it all in order to get in sync with Sony's camera feature terminology.

-gb-

I can´t find it please post the link!

http://www.sonybiz.net/images/editor...logyBasics.pdf

Might make another good sticky.

Low light Performance
 

I'm thinking of getting a PDW-350. It seems to have all the features I'm looking for (except optical image stabilization, but I can live without that.) And the XDCAM HD workflow beats P2 and tape hands down. $40,000 is a lot of money, but if this camera lasts 8-10 years then it's worth it.

However, I'm curious about the low-light performance. Much of what I shoot is documentary-style, unlighted footage. Will this camera render a good indoor picture without additional lights?

The new XDCAM HD's are not hugely sensitive. They aren't terrible, but it is one of the cameras weaknesses. With the losw shutter enabled you can get incredible low light performance out of it, but at the expense of framerate. It depends on how low light you are talking about?

Low Light Performance
 

I'm currently comfortable using a DVX-100 without gain at 1/30th of a second. That generally covers what I need it to. How is the gain on the PDW-350? Does it make the image unusable or is it viable solution to low light situations?

You would see an increase as I did over the XL2. Another good thing is that the Sony has no vertical smear on bright lights at night.

Brett, optical image stabilization is generally never done in camera. That's a lens function. Both Canon and Fujinon offer OIS devices that go between the camera body and lens so you can use the lens of your choice and get the benefits of OIS.

-gb-

You have to remember Simon that most folks on this forum would be stepping 'up' to 1/2 sensors from 1/3 and should get some performance gain. Compared to the 2/3 PDW-510, I can see why you are unimpressed with the PDW-F350.

-gb-

Thats very true Greg. I'm not too critical of the 350's sensitivity. Its just something to take into consideration just in case some hope it will be totaly clean. As I mentioned in my Showreel mag reviews of the two cameras, the gain is not unsuable. In fact it is perfectly viable for use. Just not as clean as others. Don't forget that many who are buying the new XDCAM HD are actually coming back down from 2/3" cameras, so that is where my thinking comes from as you rightly mentioned.

But yeah, if you are moving up from 1/3" CCD's the XDCAM HD will be a revelation. Especially in terms of dynamic range. In Cinegamma 2 it even beats my 510.

Agreed. It's all in your persepctive!

Low Light Performance
 

I can see where going from an 1/3" HD chip to a 1/2" HD chip would be an improvement in sensitivity. However, going from SD 1/3" (which I'm used to) to HD 1/2" might be a drop in sensitivity. Because the CCDs are more dense with HD that leaves less light per pixel. Whether the size increase overcomes that I don't know. What I do know is that I don't like the current breed of HDV cameras for two main reasons, they require a lot more light and they don't have wide enough angles (for the ones with built in lenses).

Not entirely. It depends on the CCD type too. FIT, IT etc. There are also methods such as on chip lenses, which places a micro lens above each each photo sensor on the CCD. Combined with a HAD sensor vertical smear is reduced drastically, and light sensitivity is increased well above that of CCDs without these methods. So while the idea that the CCD's are more crammed with elements is okay, it isn't the whole, ahem, picture. ;-)

So it isn't just a case of an upgrade to a 1/2" CCD, but it is also an upgrade to all these sorts of technology that makes the leap much greater. There is also all the other higher quality electronics that come with it.