New Separate Figure for HD Video Mode Magnification for HC1 & HC3
 

I have one more adjustment to make to the magnification figures for the HC1 and HC3, that I've listed in the two previous messages:

The magnification levels for the SD video mode of the HC1 and HC3 at full zoom are the same as I stated before, at 13.7X (HC1) and 13.75X (HC3). However, the figures for the HD video mode are different, at 11.2X (HC1) and 11.25X (HC3). With a 2X telextender, the HD video mode magnification is 22.4X (HC1) and 22.5X (HC3). The reason for this calculation change is that I've discovered that a larger active sector of the CMOS is used for the HD video mode, than I had believed earlier. And this is due to a smaller sector being used for the HD video mode EIS margins than I had previously thought. Consequently, the effective focal length, with the EIS engaged, is less for the HD mode than for SD. The larger active HD sector means that the magnification effect is less than I had previously calculated.

As this indicates, the portion of the diagonal measurement of the CMOS for both models, that is taken up for the EIS in HD video mode at full zoom, is less than I stated earlier. It is only about 22% and the amount of the total pixels that is dedicated to EIS is about 38%. This amount drops down to about 26% of the total pixels at low zoom, as the width of the variable EIS margins is reduced at that end of the range.

Only about 50% of the available pixels are used for the active sensing area of the SD video mode. I can't be sure how much of the outer margins are actually used for the EIS, as this zone may not extend all the way to the edges for SD video. Also, the variability in the EIS margins may be at the same percentage as it is for HD, but I can't calculate that with the limited information I have at present about the SD mode's functions. Nor do I know how many active pixels are used at each end of the zoom range in SD video mode. I hope to find these details later. If I had an HC1 or HC3 in my hands, I might be able to determine this.

HC1 DV Passthru
 

Been up all night playing with the new toy and just freaked to find out it's 3am, but still haven't been able to get something to work right.

I captured about 10 minutes of video and imported it into Premier Pro 2.0, the MPG file plays just fine, made some cuts and edits and moved some stuff around and I'm pleased.

Now, I have my TV Monitor setup with component cables in and connected them to the AV ports on the camera, when in normal record or playback modes, the TV shines with HDVideo, cool so far.

The only issue is that I can't seem to get the NLE to pass video into the camera thru the firewire port, Adobe keeps telling me that the only external monitor option is my 2nd PC monitor, won't show up as the camera so I can't pump video to cam and pass it thru to the TV monitor.

Is this normal or am I missing a setting somewhere, tried all sorts of combinations, but can't seem to work it out.

Hoping someone can help.
MIGUEL

HC1 shutter speeds? 1/4?
 

Does the HC1 have slow 1/4 shutter speed or it is limited to 1/60 only?

Yes, shutter will go down to about 1/4second. Maybe 1/3rd second. not sure but it's something around there.

1/60th sec is the default shutter speed on NTSC cams. You can change it via the SHUTTER SPEED function.

1/4 - 1/10,000 (in AE Mode)

All of the specs are readily available on Sony's site.

HC1 discontinued - how about A1U?
 

I am considering an HDV camcorder. The pro audio features of the Sony A1U are appealing. Since the HC1 is now discontinued in favor of the HD3, does anyone know if the A1U will be discontinued as well?

I'm torn - the prosumer features of the A1U are appealing, but the small form factor of the HC3 have merits as well. For now, most of my HDV shooting is for personal use, and the small HC3 may fill the bill. Unless Sony introduces a companion "pro" version with with pro audio features (unlikely in a small camcorder?), perhaps the A1U is the way to go.

The lack of mic input and expanded focus are steering me away from the HC3, and if the A1U may soon be discontinued along the the HC1, maybe now is the time to snag one of the remaining A1U's.

Any thoughts on this?

Hi Kris and welcome to DVinfo. Cross-posting the same question to multiple forums is against our rules so I've removed your other thread.

Sorry, I'm at a public airport terminal now and can't find the other thread on this topic, but I'm not sure the HC1 has been discontinued here in the US. Isn't it still listed on the Sony Style website? The A1 has definitely not been discontinued and I don't think it has even been on the maket for a full year yet. Highly unlikely that it will go away anytime soon IMO. Sony typically keeps pro models on the market for somewhere around 3 years. But of course my crystal ball isn't any clearer than anyone else's...

Some folks think the HC1 is discontinued, others don't. If the A1 is what you want, them by all means buy it. Now is always the right time to buy. All cameras are discontinued sooner or later. It's no big deal. You need to look at feature sets and ergonomics... if they appeal to you... then go for it.

New to the board -- audio concerns going from PDX10 to HC1
 

Hello all, I'm Chris from Alaska and I'm new to the board.

I'm seriously thinking about picking up an HC1 -- which I can get for $1000 even with a sale combined with a gift card from one of the big box stores. I know the A1 is the logical jump from what I have, but even with the rebate there's a $1000 difference and there are a few toys that I want to pick up *IF* I make the switch.

Currently I have a pretty extensive PDX10 setup that I use for all sorts of things - short documentary, ENG, sports/event videos, cheezy shorts and so forth.

My setup:
Century .65 wide angle
Century ultra fisheye
Sennheiser EW100 wireless w/ handheld transmitter
Sennheiser ME66 mic
Shure VP64 - great wired interview mic
Azden WM Pro wireless - backup
NRG light with battery belt
Generic 3w light as backup/portable
A CF tirpod with a small video head
Monopod
Shure SM7b for v/o work
And a couple of things that don't come to mind at the moment.

I'm also planning a trip around the world and I'm going to shoot ENG type stories that I can later turn into something documentary-ish. I want to stay reasonably portable while not sacrificing audio/video quality.

So my main worry is the audio situation. I've never used a Beachtek adaptor and in my experiences the ME66 is too hot for a mini jack. I can however use the EW100/Azden with a mini jack and I've had good results with the VP64L plugged into the PDX's mini jack.

Basically I need to be able to get clean nat sound along with interviews that are "broadcast quality." I know the A1 is probably the way to go, but the extra grand is holding me back in a big way.

Any thoughts or experiences are greatly appreciated. I may hold on to the PDX if I'm gonna lose audio quality. But I have seen others talk about the Rode videomic as being an excellent mini jack mic. Getting the HC1 and a beachhtek seems kinda pointless with the A1 around. Thanks.

HC1 now or wait for HC3?
 

Assuming the pinkish reds exhibited on my first HC1 may have been a QA issue (based upon testing another one at CC), should I try another HC1 or just wait for the HC3?

I'm willing to give the HC1 another shot if there's any hope of "reasonable" reds. I don't mind the larger size and at $350 less, it sure is tempting.

I know there's only a few HC3's out there, so reviews are scarce, but based upon the preliminary specs and feedback; does the HC3 produce a better image than the HC1? From the specs on the Sony site, the HC1 has more pixels on it's sensor than the HC3 (3MP vs. 2.1MP). One would think that's better except you only need 2.1MP to capture 1080x1920 video, right? Are the additional pixels just for the still camera resolution?

So here are my pros and cons:

HC1 Pros:
I've used it and liked it.
The price is right.

HC1 Cons:
Red color accuracy on my first unit was terrible!!!
Older (relative) technology

HC3 Pros
Better color accuracy???
Better overall 1080i image???
Smaller, lighter
Higher resolution LCD

HC3 Cons
Not a proven performer yet
Missing mic/headphone jacks
No manual shutter

Am I missing anything?

For me the #1 criterion is picture quality. I need to capture videos that will look good on my Sony 60" SXRD 1080p RPTV. That's the only reason I attempted to move up from my older Sony MiniDV 480i in the first place.

Steve

Extra pixels get used when the electronic steady-shot is activated. Which pixels these are is not entirely clear, to me and my small brain at least.

I've had an HC1 for 2.5months now, viewing on a 48" RP HD Sony. The reds have never caught my attention as being problematic. The camera does have a 'cooler' overall tone than, for example, my JVC HD1.

Another couple of Pro's are top loading tape and better low light performance. I have FX1 and TRV50 and did not think that the HC1 was a reasonable second camera replacement for the TRV50 because of the lack of the two above Pro's. I will problabley get a HC3. Lack of headphone jack and mic input is not of concern to me as a second camera but as a single camera may be an issue. HC3 does have the option of using the new Bluetooth mic though that does look attractive for me.

Ron Evans

Steve, you cannot only compare the number of pixels, the 2 CMOS aren't based on the same technology.
The one inside the HC1 is 'classical', the one of the HC1 is a 'Clearvid' one (pixels in diagonal) and the rate of red and blue pixels on the green ones is not the same in these 2 technologies.

Have a look too here http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthrea...8440#post28440

When you write "you only need 2.1MP to capture 1080x1920 video, right?", it's false because you confuse the number of 'screen RGB pixels' and the captor pixels: for example, a LCD screen for computers, announced with a resolution of 1080x1920, hold in fact 1080x1920x3 elementary pixels (the 'x3' is to take into account the red, green, and blue elementary colored pixels).

When a camcorder hold 2.1MP on 1 captor, or it's the total of monochrome pixels in case of a 3xCCD or 3xCMOS, or its the total number of pixels whatever is the elementary color in the case of the mono-chip camera.

The HC1 and HC3 have a mono-CMOS, but, due to the different technology, the HC1 has 2 green for 1 red/1 blue pixel, and the HC3 has 6 green for 1 red/1 blue. When you compare the effective number of pixels between these 2 camcorders, you see that the HC1 has quite the same number of green pixels and 2.5 times more red and blue pixels than the HC3.
But, on the HC3, with pixels in diagonal, Sony claims to have the quite same result with its Clearvid CMOS.

In an another hand, remember that the HDV format has a 4:2:0 color scheme for which, on the paper, the weight of red and blue pixels of the HC3 are enough.

hc1 footage
 

this is hc1 footage
canopus hq codec... upsize to 1920...deinterlance and 24p film look


http://www.dvuser.co.kr/zboard/data/pds/canopus.avi

It's not dling for me...

However, I did see your other HC1 24p filmic color corrected footage at:
http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthread.php?t=4612

Could you tell us how you did that, step by step? It looks awesome.

..
 

convert ur footage to 10bit or 16bit and color correct in avid hd pro.. change gamma curve and color correct,,,your done.

http://www.dvuser.co.kr/zboard/data/...okHD_1080p.wmv

Did you record your original footage using the camera's own CineTone/CineGamma option? If so, did you use Type 1 or Type 2 (not sure if these options are only on the A1 or also on the HC1?).

Could you explain exactly what you did in color correction? Like, what exactly did you do to gamma change and color correct?

hc1 actually for sale via sonyeducation site?
 

http://edu.sony.com/webapp/wcs/store...ntractId=21505

theres a link to sony's education site, and the hc1 clearly for sale at 1500. unless they just havnt updated this part of their webpages yet, it looks like u can stlil grab em direct. came across this in the midst of some major hc1/hc3 research. leaning towards hc1 right now, primarily for documentary of a month long australia trip im going on in june. anyone point me in the direction of some cheap prices for the hc1? thanks a mil.

edit, forgot to mention hc1 is also in the business area of sony's website.

If you expect to use it for a project for potential public presentation or sale, I suggest looking into the A1U so you can record better audio. Failing that, you can get a BeachTek XLR adapter box which are pretty nice. I know the additional cost isn't attractive but cleaner, clearer audio will help you maximize the overall presentation quality. Not only is the XLR connection electrically noise immune, you'll have the option to use higher quality mics.

For private use, it's probably not as important.

How to set HC1 for incoming dub?
 

Is there some trick to setting an HC1 to record an incoming DV/HDV signal via firewire? I followed the instructions in the manual this morning to adjust various menu options, but the HC1 seems to be determined to send a signal out rather than record what's coming in. I ended up switching tapes with my other camera and getting the dub to work that way, but I'd still like to know how to record into the HC1.

What are you sending the signal from?

When exporting out of Premiere 2.0 there is really no trick: you connect the cable, put the camera in paused-playback mode, and hit export to tape from within the NLE.

I had the HC1 connected by firewire to an FX1 set to downsample from HDV to DV for output. But no matter what I did the HC1 thought it was sending a signal out instead of receiving a signal in, so I had to use the HC1 as the player and FX1 as recorder.

HC1 questions
 

1. Can the HC1 playback tapes shot on DV or DVCAM or Canons Frame Movie mode. I've got tapes shot on all different type of cameras and modes.

2. Can the A1U's XLR mic adapter be used on the HC1 and if so where could I buy just one of these?

3. What about these first two questions applied to the HC3?

thank you

>> 1. Can the HC1 playback tapes shot on DV or DVCAM or Canons Frame Movie mode. I've got tapes shot on all different type of cameras and modes. <<

The HC1 can play tapes shot in DV or HDV 1080i. The HC1 can not play DVCAM tapes although the A1U can. The HC1 (and for that matter, any other Sony Camcorder or Deck) can not play tapes recorded in Canon's 24F and 30F modes. These modes are proprietary to Canon and can only be played back on the Canon XL-H1 (and possibly other Canon HDV camcorders released in the future), just as the Canon can not play back tapes recorded in Sony's proprietary Cineframe 24 and 30 modes recorded using Sony Camcorders and Decks.

>> 2. Can the A1U's XLR mic adapter be used on the HC1 and if so where could I buy just one of these? <<

The A1U's XLR mic adaptor can not be used on the HC1. However you could purchase a Beach Box with similar capabilities. Service parts for the Sony HVR-A1U and all Sony Professional Products are available from Sony.

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...ss/index.shtml

>> 3. What about these first two questions applied to the HC3? <<

All of the above answers apply to the HC3 also. Furthermore, the HC3 has no mic inputs at all, so you could not add a Beach Box, or any external mic or line input.

I hope this helps.

--Dave

Third Party Battery for HC1
 

I'm looking for a second battery for my HC1 and was curious if anybody has used a battery other than Sony.

I saw some on Ebay and the price was definetely right but you get what you pay for.

Hi,

I have the Sony A1, which is the pro equivalent of the HC1. You have to be careful when ordering a clone type battery. Sony are too crafty for words when they put a chip in their Lithium Ion batteries which is detected when you put in on the camera.

I purchased a battery which said it was the same as the IQ-71. It worked for 10 seconds before a warning from the camera "told me off" and said I had to use a genuine battery.

I then bought a Hahnel battery from: https://www.digitalmediastore.co.uk/. They had mimiced the chip in the Sony battery. It works just fine at half the price. I see you are in the U.S. but you should be able to source the same type, just beware the above!.

I had the same experience John had.

I ordered 2 batteries off eBay, a 2800mAH and a 4200mAH bettery.

the 4200mAH works fine in the A1U (same type as the HC1) but the 2800mAH battery does not. About 5 secs after turning on the cam, it says: "Use only Sony InfoLithium batteries!!" then it turns off.

I wasn't super mad though, because I just use the 2nd battery for my HVL-20DMA camera light.

HC1 Workflow in FCP
 

Recently bought a HC1 and am very impressed. Now this might be a case of running before I can walk but I want to record my daughters dance show in HDV over three nights then use Final Cut Pro 5 and its multiclip facility to create a master copy using footage from all three nights.

What I can't quite get my head around is how to capture the footage or rather the best way to capture the footage for editing.

I've seen reference to using iMovie for capture then importing into FCP as Apple Intermediate Codec files?

I also know that FCP5 will import the HDV footage directly using one of its presets.

So whats the best option?

I want something that will be easy to edit and my mac should be up to the job (Dual 2.3ghz Powermac with 2.5GB RAM)

Any pointers will be gratefully received.

Thanks
Don

This might help:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....hreadID=489529

Thanks Darren, Lots of useful tips in this link!

I'm presuming the workflow using iMovie was mooted before FCP5 was introduced and I should be OK using FCP5 for all capture and editing of HDV content?

Don

Hi Don,
Glad they helped.
With any luck I'll get some time to try it out myself this weekend :)

Those who have Japanse versions of HC1
 

I bought a slightly used camera from a Japanese guy, it didn´t have english menues, so I figured there must be a way around it, I mailed Sony and asked if it was possible to pay a fee to get them to update the firmware, and that way get the english menues and possible PAL instead of NTSC.

...and I then got the number to one of thiere servicecenters and I called them an got another number to a place doing work for sony (not sony itself) and they are now going to change the module in the camera so I have PAL and english menues for about 300$, not to much money considering that the camera was alot, alot, alot cheaper than over here.

I don´t know if this is against thiere policies here or in the states or in other places, but it´s worth a shot for you other people who I read about here in the forum with the same problem.

Recovering from dropouts (HC1)
 

Hi everybody. I picked up an HC1 in March and have used it to shoot a few hours worth of family & school event videos. No heavy workload or anything like that, but I have had quite a few dropouts in my videos. Usually the dropouts occur within the first 30 seconds or so of each tape, so I have learned to shoot a minute of "warmup" on every new tape since, but there are at least a few dropouts occuring all over the tape in every tape I've shot so far. Previously I didn't notice them very much because they usually occured during unimportant parts of my home videos. Unfortunately, today I filmed a school speech contest and a big 1-second dropout occured during the pinnacle point of the 1st place speech. :(

I've been using only Sony Premium DV 60min tapes since the my first DV camera back in '98 or so and never had a problem with them. I think I've had more dropouts in my few hours worth of HDV tapes from the HC1 than in my whole closet full of DV tapes, even the LP mode ones. Plus, the DV dropouts tend to only affect the video or cause a brief audio glitch, while the HDV dropouts completely destroy both video and audio for 15-30 frames. Are Sony Premium tapes just junk for HDV? Or do you think I should send my HC1 in for service?

Also, does anyone have any advice for recovering from the dropouts that have already occured? I tried capturing with HDV Split .75, Premiere Pro 2, and Edius (demo versions), but all of them completely lose both the video and audio for the duration of the dropout, both in HDV and in DV-downconvert modes. I even tried using a Sony cleaning tape and replaying the affected moment several times, but its always the same. :( This is going to be a very difficult glitch to try to coverup or edit around, and I already promised the students that I'd have the speeches ready on DVD before the summer vacation starts.

Any ideas or advice? Thanks!

Sony Premium tapes should be absolutely fine. Many people use them for HDV, i use them for DV a lot and they're quality tapes.

Sounds like you've got a dud camera and i would definitely take it in for service or replcement or whatever. Its no good at all if you are getting that many dropouts.

Before you take it in, try using the sony cleaning tape, DVM-12CLE i think it's called. It could just be a stubborn chunk of debris on the heads and that could fix it.

Dropouts tend to occur more often when camcorders are NEW but no way there should be as many as you have.

Summary to try:
1) Cleaning tape (use just once or twice)
2) POSSIBLY a bad match of tapes, try going to buy a couple new Sony Premiums or just try differrent tape brand.
3) If above does not work, then for sure take it in and INSIST upon service. They'll probably try to fob you off with 'long dropouts are inherent occasional problem of HDV' but thats not the point, - you're getting FAR too many by the sounds of it.

Tapes
 

Jason,
I bought a five pack of the new Sony HD 63 mini-DV tapes (white and brown) and have had no problems whatsoever in 4 tapes, here's what they look like/info:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=172282

-I think they are even higher quality than the Premium ones.


Nick.

I have been using standard Mini-DV tapes with the HC1 and have no dropouts like you describe. I have the occasional dropped frame when transferring to my computer but that is due usually to some other program I forgot to disable. So no problems from this end.

The HD versions seem really expensive and I am wondering if in fact it is even necessary....

HC1 on vacation
 

Just came back from the family vacation at Wildwood Beach, NJ.
I
brought the camera and monopole kit along. This time, I simply used it in full auto, point and shoot. I wanted to see the consumer side of this. (Most of the stuff was handheld, with exception of the monopole that was needed for the Dolphin watch). Check the link below for a few frame grabs:

http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/browseimages.php?c=46

HC1 on route!
 

Well my HC1 is in the mail so to speak.

I don't have anything to say really, just excited I suppose. : )


Seriously though thanks to this forum I was able to decide between the HC1 and HC3... and chose the HC1!

Anyone here see any down rezzed DVD (720x480) samples - any aliasing or jaggy's? Any recommendations for process with best results? I've heard some talk about Virtualdub and wondering if that's the way to go.

Cheers everyone!

downrezzed to dvd
 

I`m sorry I don`t have the HC1 to compare but have the hc3. I video`d my stepdaughters ballet in low light conditions. I used a pd170 which is great for low light and the hc3 as a backup and to experement with. The hc3 did admirably well infact I used all the footage from the hc3 and none from the pd170. The hc3 did quiet well in the lighting and the detail and resolution blew me away. I did a little fixing of the black and some noise reduction and down rezzed post. I captured ful rez with cineform hdlink, deinterlaced then downrezzed in Sony Vegas 6 to a 9500kps dvd with motion menu. It looked better than if I would have used the pd170 clips.

I can tell you from first hand experience shooting hidef the n downrezzing is better than shooting straight dv. In fact I was so impressed with the footage I sold my pd170 last week on ebay. I`ve had that for one year now, bought for $2500 and sold for $2600. I also sold my vx2000. I have no reason ever to shoot straight 720X480 again.

My dvd looks almost as good as the original. I have an upconverting LG dvd player with hdmi cable to 37" HD lcd tv. Sharp !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your hc1 will make you very happy.
By the way with the money I made from selling my SD cams I bought a Z1U that looks like new with operation hours 3X10hr , drum 1X10hr, tape 1X10hr
and threading 3X10. It came with original box all accessories and it looks and so far seems to perform as if I bought it new. I paid $3650, almost a grand less than new. So basically I used ebay to trade my old vx2000 and pd170 for a lightly used, almost new HVR-Z1U. The next time the hc3 will be truly the B camera.

Thanks for the inspiration, will definitely give it a whirl once I get my cam!