Hmmmm....I thought the HC1/A1U sensor was progressive...read for yourself:

http://neasia.nikkeibp.com/neasia/001840

"The CMOS imaging sensor has roughly 3.8 times as many pixels as the 1/6-inch design used in the firm's DCR-PC1000 SDTV camcorder released in March 2005, and pixel pitch is about 2.35£gm. The new model can shoot 1080p at 60 frames/s, converting the imagery into 1080i at 60 fields/s."

Very interesting....

Was the article wrong or do they know something we do not?

Well, I don't think so. This is the second article from an Asian source that states that. I can't find the other url, but I know it is out there...

This is all very interesting, and I have no idea where the truth lies. But if the camera is indeed progressive, don't you think it's odd that Sony isn't touting this as a selling point? Their own brochure says it's 1080i and 24f. Other manufacturers who are using true progressive scan CCD's (XL2, DVX100) have made this very clear.

Now since the A1 and HC1 can also take high res still photos, I assume there must be some way to progressively scan the CCD in order to do this. That isn't the same as being able to shoot 30p video however. Just look at the PDX-10 - it shoots high res stills in progressive mode, but can't do this for video. Or the PD-150 which also shoots progressive stills, and can even shoot 15 fps progressive video but not 30p.

Alexander, I was just looking at the "highlights" page you mentioned earlier, "They specifically list it 24 frames/sec with 2:3 pulldown". Personally, I think you have taken this out of context - you aren't quoting the full text of what Sony claims. The exact quote is: "60i/30frame/sec, 24 frame/sec with 2:3 pulldown switchable."

You left out the important first part: 60i/30frame/sec. I think this should be interpreted as meaning:

60i/30frame/sec

or

60i/24frame/sec

And the significant thing is the use of the "i" and "frame"

But perhaps DSE or someone who really knows the truth about all this can provide a definitive answer. The A1 does look like a very interesting product. (but I'm still glad I got a Z1 :-)

Boyd, I do agree with you that it is quite unclear when looking at the "highlights" list. I just don't know why they would list it separately. But I guess you are right.

However, regarding the progressive chip, the answer is simple: product differentiation. If the HC1/A1U was released with the ability to record in progressive, who in their right minds would by the FX1? The feature would also be given for "free" for the price that the HC1 is being sold at. I am sure they are waiting for later models to integrate that ability into.

I don't understand SONY sometimes, but I believe that those articles are indeed true.

Boyd and Alexander,

Surely the HDV recording standard is 1080i 60f. There is no way to record progressive on the HDV tape even if the actual readout from the CMOS chip is progressive. That would be true for any HDV camera including the FX1/Z1. The only thing that Sony might have done is to provide the capability to output the analog Component Video in 1080p instead of 1080i - but there are no TV displays at present to watch the result (though it could be displayed on some computer monitors). The HDV standard does allow for 720p - which is what JVC chose for their consumer camcorder, but of course that does have a lower resolution! True 1080p recording would require a 2X data rate on the tape - or MUCH heavier compression - not going to happen!!!

Gerald

I agree...but who is to say that TVs won't be capable in the near future? I mean, SONY is selling HDV camcorder like candy and HDTV is still far from mainstream. I think that the technology is already there, all they're doing is waiting for the right time.

They could do 30/25/24p with no penalty, and better compression than interlace.

Douglas

I have read through here and the article, and I noticed that there is not a clear answer to the question of where ever the aperture can be adjusted independently by itself (or if gain can). You seem to mention it, but it is not entirely clear where ever you where talking about readouts or actual controls.

What is the answer, is it the same manual control setup as the HC1?

Thanks

Wayne.

Is this better then Z1?

As the review explains, not by a long shot. It's a very impressive cam for sub 3K.

From the A1 Manual, I realize there's no manual gain. What a shame for a "Pro" camera. Useless for fiction and overall manipulated lighting work (since the gain will automatically "come in"without notice... (at least that's what it looks like- it doesn't even have a gain indicator!)

Can someone send me the A1's manual? The link seems to be down. My email is akarol@ufl.edu.

Also, I do agree that lack of manual gain control might keep this camcorder from becoming a lot more successful than it should. If not using it for helmet cam, then I don't see why any professional would get the A1 instead of the FX1.

It could be a great alernative for HDV video when using a steadicam or steadicam device like the Merlin, because of it's smaller size and lighter weight than the FX1 or Z1.

My trv 900 had a gain icon display, even tough it wasn't controlable... Does the A1 have this information? This would at least give us some idea of what was going on...

I agree. That would suffice to me. I doubt though.

I just really want to know if the "rolling shutter" effect is visible on the A1 and how well black strech really works.

I haven't used the A1, but starting with the TRV-950 and PDX-10 Sony "dumbed down" their cameras a bit. No display of F-stop or gain, just a bar graph. On my PDX-10 you can tell whether gain is applied once you get accustomed to the relative position of the bargraph however.

"I just really want to know if the "rolling shutter" effect is visible on the A1 and how well black strech really works."

From what I have seen, the black stretch work extremely well, especially where low light would be involved, as the darks stay dark and give you better contrast and helps mainitain color better. The Z1 this feature as well, but the HC1 and FX1 do not.

Boyd, any idea if this bar graph is on the A1? And is this bar graph something like an "equalizer display", with easy to read + (gain) display?
-------
(nogain) -

I think when it comes to the data code (gain, iris, and shutter speed), the only visible setting during recording is the shutter speed. The remaining settings can only be viewed during Playback. Hopefully, I am wrong, but I highly doubt it.

That is something that really bothers me about the A1U. They aren't including independent gain/iris control, the least they can give us is a display of what setting it is on.

Sorry, I've never seen an A1. On the PDX-10 perhaps "bar graph" was not a good term to use. It's a horizontal rectangle with a little square in it the moves from left to right, just like the zoom indicator on a PD-150. There is no calibration or marking, however once you get used to it you can judge where the gain is applied pretty easily by its position relative to the text just above it.

Question for Douglas Spotted Eagle
 

Hi Douglas. I am curious about the quality of the zoom control on the A1U. In my opinion, Sony has really missed the boat generally with their weak rocker controls on their newer models. I have an old TRV-7, which was quite an expensive "consumer" camera 8 years ago, and one of the great things about it is the high quality of the zoom rocker control, which allows for very slow crawling zooms. I find that with the newer Sony models, including the HC1 (which I demo-ed at Circuit City), I can't get the level of zoom control that I want, which is in large part why I haven't upgraded the camera in 8 years! I would willingly pay the extra $ for a high quality hand-held camcorder, but every model that I demo from Sony comes up short in that area.

So, can you give me any insight into whether the A1U's zoom controls are any better?

Thanks for the help!

FWIW: The zoom rocker on my new HC90 works perfecto! Very easy to zoom from SLOWWWWW to FASTTTTT.

Perhaps the newer Sonys are all like this. ???

Regards
JohnG

Shawn i can help here.
No.1 : i totally agree about the zoom on the HC1. It's WAY too fast, even at slowest-zoom achievable. The slowest continuous zoom end-to-end is 10second zoom. However one of the first people to get a production A1 did a test and he managed to achieve a 29-second zoom. So, a small allowance for mis-timing, the zoom on A1 is at least 3times slower than the HC1. It may be even slower than that (hard if you're not used to Sony toggle to achieve and hold slowest rate).

However, if you really want a top Sony camera with a very slow crawler zoom, then get hold of a HC1000. I have one and i can achieve a continous 84-second (ish) end-to-end. That is so slow that it's almost imperceptible, and it looks very pro.
HC1000 is now discontinued, but you may be able to get one from a store that still has stock. If not, then try getting hold of one 2nd-hand or from ebay. There should be quite a few people i would think selling HC1000's simply cos they want the latest HD camera. Now obviously if you definitely want HDV, then you'll have to go for HC1 or A1, but the HC1000 is about as good as it gets in SD camcorders. it's 3CCD too.

Hope this helps.

Do the HC1 and A1 have a LANC jack? If so then get a zoom controller. I have the same problem on my PDX-10 with a hair trigger rocker switch. I use a Varizoom Pro-L which lets you dial in the desired speed and hold it constant.

However, even when set to the absolute minimum speed there is often (but not always) a noticeable bump at the beginning. This can't be avoided since there's a bottom limit to the zoom speed setting. So even if you select the lowest speed you go from 0 to that speed when first activating the control.

Hi Boyd

Yes, both HC1 and A1 have LANC facility.

Users have used variable-speed-zoom LANC controller on HC1 and they managed to achieve an end-to-end slowest zoom of 24seconds, a substantial improvement on the 'native' 10seconds.

A1's are just starting to be delivered and i note that someone natively achieved approx. 30secs. end-to-end slowest zoom, but no idea of what adding a LANC-controller to the A1 would do. Maybe 75secs ??

Not all Lanc controllers were able to increase the zoom speed on the HC1. The maximum acquired was 24 secs. with the Canon lanc.

However, the A1 has a default zoom speed of up to 29 secs. I don't know why there is such a drastic difference. I guess SONY is trying to create another factor of product differentiation. Kinda lame in my opinion.

Just checked my HC90 and slow zoom is at least 30 seconds. Seems like the HC1 should be similar. ???

JohnG

It should be similar, but it isn't. The greatest zoom speed possible with the HC1 is 10 secs. Like I said before, I think it's SONY way of attaining another factor in product differentiation between the HC1 and it's big brother, the A1 (which has a zoom speed of 29 secs).

"The bottom-load tape mechanism is challenging for those who would use this camcorder with a tripod. There are stand-off devices, but this could have been better thought out."

Anybody know what are some of these stand-off devices DSE mentioned in the review and where I might be able to get them?

thanks

I don't know what he ment but I am using a quick-connection. They come with a lot of tripods but can also be purchased seperately. Something like this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

The plate connected to the camera is quite easliy screwed on and off.

2 questions...

1 blackstretch - Can this be done in post? Basically color / gama correction or something else? Is there info the A1 captures that the HC1 doesn't in low light?

2 Just reiterating a former post, I, too, am looking for an offset device to allow easy HC1 mounting on a tripod, preferably Sachtler.

I've seen these plates but I think most if not all still obstructs the tape loading door. Does anyone have one that doesn't obstruct the door?

I was thinking about getting a cheap tripod with a plastic plate and cut away at it so it allows the door to open while hopefully still be sturdy enough to stay in place. Or make a metal bracket to offset the tripod mount. If there are similar devices out there already, please let me know. Thanks.

Yes, it blocks the tapedoor but these quickmounts allow you to take the camera of the tripod fast and unscrewing the plate attached to the camera is done in a couple of seconds. I think it's the best way at the moment.

The one I've got doesn't block the tape door, but I've also tried to find these for other people, and can't find one. This is older, probably 6-7 years old from back when tape bottom loads were more common. It looks like a letter "U" turned on its side, and the top of the "U" is the bottom of the cam, just barely missing the door, and the bottom of the "U" is the mount for the sled.

I'm a bit suspicious of Stu Holmes' 84 second slow zoom (though as always, when I've been shown irrefutable scientific proof I'm happy to change my view).

Stu - are you sure this was a continuous zoom and not one interrupted by minute gaps which would lengthen the time? I ask because Sony's LANC protocol has always been to program in 6 or 8 zoom speeds into the lens, and this cannot be over-ridden, even if you zoom manually (PD170, say) or zoom using a LANC zoom controller which can be set to only use the slowest speed available (Zoe, say).

All Sony zooms lenses I have tested have started off with a tiny little jerk. This is the LANC protocol accessing the first of the zoom speeds available, and as far as I can see there's no way around this.

tom.

That was a "24" second zoom, and achieved only with a high quality outboard LANC controller.

It has now been established that the A1's zoom rocker and ring achieve no better zoom times than the ~ 10 seconds of the HC1.

Sorry Todd, don't understand that. How can a 24 second zoom be an 84 second one?

Where did '84" seconds come from?

And it is now confirmed that like the HC1, the zoom rocker on the A1 is also currently capable of only a 'native' ~ 10 seconds.