Hvr-hd1000u in low light?
 

Hello everyone,
I'm a wedding photographer and i want to buy this camcorder.
here (Israel) in weddings we use Panasonic DVC-200 or DVX-100b with 20-30w video light on camera, the picture is good and bright, the question is if the HD1000u will provide the same result in this low light scene as the Panasonic.
again i repeat we use 20-30w on camera video light.
from your knowledge will it give good results?
will the picture won't be dark?
Please help me with this question, no one in Israel bought it that i can ask him.

thanks in advance
Asaf Benatia

http://www.pozot.co.il

The quick answer is no. HD cameras especially HDV cameras have reduced light gathering capabilities due the increase of light information being gathered in the same space.

However, this might not be as bad as it sounds especially if you are creating standard DVDs for your clients. A lot of the low light noise gets thrown out when the video is downconverted to SD. Whether it's up to your quality standards is only a question that you can answer.

Low light capabilities
 

I agree with William. Due to the smaller photosites, even if the sensor is 1/3", the light sensitivity is lowered by a lot. I don't have the hd-1000u, but I do have the hc3, the precursor model to the hc7, w/c is basically the hd-1000u in a larger body. I can say that it's about 2.5-3 stops difference easy compared to my VX-2000. This is not a scientific measure, but I am sure it's pretty close. Of course, the VX-2000 is a class on its own in low light. This and the PD-170 are the king of low light in SD.

In any case, since you mentioned you use a 20-30 watt light (i presume on camera), that might help mitigate or neutralize the low light disadvantage of the 1000u. With my hc3, we use a lowly 3 watt onboard sony light for fill in light if the area is well lit. But behind us at the altar, we have these 2 x 800-1000 watt lights equivalent metal hallide (rated at 150 watts draw) on lightstands about 30-50 ft away. So, in a way, we are covered. In the last wedding we did 2 weeks ago, I only intalled 2 x 125 watt CFLs (rated at 24 watts draw each) about 30 ft away. It was about 1 stop under. So, I guess we have to put 1 more CFL there or two, or run the hc3 at 1/30 sec.

If you are shooting about 5-8ft, maybe even 10ft, I bet your 20-30 watt lights will do (halogen lights). There might be a hot spot or your ambient light might be too dark though, with the center the only one being well lit, and this may look unnatural, unless you have one of those new wide spread lights. The dark areas can be noisy, though, I agree with William again, that if shoot HD and dowsample to SD, the noise is pretty tamed or is not that bothersome.

Being budget constrained, yes, we do have to work with what we have. Maybe get those new LED lights, variable output, to help out. Maybe in time, if competition does heat up, they'll come out with a 1/2.7" sensor with only 2mp pixel density (not 5, 8 or 10mp) or a 1/2" sensor with good low light capabilities in a more affordable price range. The alternative is to go back to the older VX/PD or panasonic models, w/c are not HD. At this point in time, that's not a good idea unless you dont' expect to shoot or deliver HD even with a year's time.

Compared to my VX, my HC3 is a bit far in low light capabilities. But it's not bad either. In good light, it is exceptional. In low light, well, we do have to provide it light, otherwise, we deal with noise. I've used the FX1 on a limited time and it's almost about the same as the HC3, except the colors are more vibrant in the FX1 in low light due to the fact of it being 3-CCD.

If you ask me, only a 1/2" sensor will do a HD camera justice. But of course, we are on a budget, so we are left with a 1/3" sensor. Trouble is, the camera companies are cramming more pixels in the same real estate thus lowering light sensitivities further. OTOH, they are deploying better DSP chips like clearvid/exmor that is supposed to lessen the noise. So, it's more like back to the hc3 standard in terms of noise, for all intents and purposes. Or at the most, hc7 standards.

In that case, the HD1000u, is the best price for the buck at this point in time. Just add the lights to help mitigate the low light issues.

Thanks for the replay's!
i forgot to mention that i'm attending to use only SD with the HD1000u no HDV.
I only buy it because it is a shoulder mount camera and it is a good price.
now, will i get more light when shooting in SD?

No. There is no advantage at all shooting DV on an HDV cam.

thanks for the replay
do you know if i'll have enough light if i'll use 20-30w video light on camera like the LED light that sony have?

I haven't received mine yet so haven't had a chance to test it. Best bet is to just try it beforehand and see.

but how can i try it in the situation the i need to check it (dance floor)

How is the Sony HVL-20DW2? Seems like it might be a nice match for the HD1000.

My observation is that the HD1000 is about 1 1/2 to 2 stops less sensitive than the PD170 at 0db. It's hard to tell as the HD1000 does not tell you what db or f-stop you are at! It's a guess.

Here is a test to try.

Take your camera and see what distance your light works well at 0db and f2 (5 feet, 15 feet, 20 feet, whatever). Close the aperture 2 stops and then see what distance the light works well at. Not terribly accurate but enough for an idea. +3db is fine on the HD1000, +6db isn't bad either.

The advantage of shooting sd on an HDV camera is native 16x9 aspect ratio, which is a big difference.

Mike

shoot in hd and down convert ...

Matthew -- Exactly.

Michael -- I didn't mean there wasn't an advantage to using an HDV cam over a DV cam to shoot DV, I meant, obviously, that in an HDV cam there's no advantage of shooting DV instead of HDV.

no my bad andrew i was referring to the quote above by asaf... he said...

"i forgot to mention that i'm attending to use only SD with the HD1000u no HDV..."


not sure if asaf you are just going to shoot in sd mode with the hd1000u...shoot in hd and then down convert to sd...actually gets nice images...

Hi Matthew,
Thanks for the replay, if I'll shoot HDV i have to capture the footage with the camera with the down convert option, and i want to use my JVC DV-BR3000 deck to capture...
because of this i want to shoot SD mode.

if i shoot SD mode do i get the same picture as shooting in HDV and then down convert to SD? please tell if you tried it not just if you think.

(my editing system has the matrox RT.X100 so i can't use HDV.)

Low light and 20DW2
 

Hi guys.

I'm trying to give some VIDEO information about the performance of this camera under low light using a HVL-20DW2 light in it.

This video is not compressed at all and shows a situation in a child party ("happy birthday to you... but in Portuguese!) where all lights were turned off and the only light here is the on coming from the HVL-20DW2 (that is 20W).

The video speaks for itself. I would like to hear what you guys think about it.

http://rapidshare.com/files/87393768...20dw2.m2t.html

See you soon. Hope I can help in someway.

thanks for the replay.

i think it kinda noise...

what you ppl think?

anyone?
it's kinda important to me... i don't know if i should buy this camcorder...

hello

I have watch all your video on youtube, and I think the quality is very good(upload)
And the 030108 si very good only the music I did not like.
Just remember the 1000u is not a sensitive camera(I use the A1U same category but in concert).I would go for FX1 or Z1 or for almost the same price as 1000u a used canon GL2.
and imagine if one day you want to put an adaptor like brevis and lose even more light.

I don't understand why you want change what is already good on you video.
Maybe make the 1000u a B camera, but you will not be close to what a Fx1 or Z1 can do.
or Make do with what you got!

I just shot some fairly low-light stuff backstage at a musical production. Under the worklights the cam added between 9 and 18dB gain. At 15-18 dB the grain was very noticeable. I think most people would consider this "unusable" for HDV, but if you like that "filmic" grainy look you may think it is fine. Color fidelity was fine.

At 9-12 dB the grain is there but you have to look for it. It is mostly visible in dark mid-tones, not in the blacks.

At 6dB and below it is not noticeable at all. Very clear, crisp HDV images, and very quick and accurate autofocus.

Here the HD1000U is half the price of an FX1, and performs admirably for the price. I have both and I think I'll need to turn sharpness and color up on the FX1 and down on the HD1000U to get them to match.

Hi
Thanks for the replay,
can you post some video for me to see?
(in low light offcourse)
and did you use on camera video light?

?????????????????

My video PC is down right now, and I don't think posted video is much help because so much depends on your player and PC. And stills are even less indicative. The only way to really tell is to play back the tape directly to an HDTV via a digital interface such as DVI or HDMI.

Best bet is just try some test shooting before the big events and see how you like it.

I did not use any additional lighting.

Hope this helps,

ag

in the brochure it sayis

Auto Slow ShutterON - 5 lux (1/30 shutter)
Auto Slow ShutterOFF - 11 lux (1/30 shutter)

what does it say's about the low light?

and if someone knows what is it signal-to-noise ratio?