I don't know if the FX7 will offer 24p, Steve, but I feel like the US version of the V1 will. Call it an educated gut feeling.

heath

Pixel shift could easily give you 1920*1080. It might be just using better pixel shift calculations, and down scaling to 1440 calculations, than the Z1.


What a fuss about this clearvid stuff. Does it anywhere say that these cameras use rotated/bent pixels, clearvid, clearly, is more than those.

This bent/rotated pixel scheme almost reminds me of one of my one chip pixel shift designs.

I can see that it can pick up extra resolution in x and y direction by halving pixels on the adjacent rows/line shifted in between which can be used by processing to figure out more accurate resolution. But this takes away from the diagonals on a normal sensor. Please not, I am talking about a different form of processing than normal processing (which would produce stair casing). How many straight vertical or horizontal, features do you see in nature. But why bother, pixel shifting would give you the results anyway, and better.

What is the real reason. Well, going on what I just said. On a resolution chart you might get higher results, marketing. In nature scenes, it is so complex people will not notice diagonal problems as much. Straight lines are sued in houses and cities, where people will notice the benefits. Lastly, this reduces the quality of output in the chroma domain (not that it particularly matters at 4:2:0) the luma pixel values can be restored with smart processing. If you want to do special pixel processing of an uncompressed feed from the camera to produce better results, the bent/rotated pixels are likely to stuff up your results (my opinion). So, the real reason could be just to throw a spanner in the works to keep people going to higher end models. Again, I would be surprised if this had the rotated pixels, and if it did I imagine a 1/3rd inch model would not.

There we go, that thread that was posted earlier, quotes, that it uses a new interpolation method to improve "quality".

We have a Sony insider on the board, perhaps he could enlighten us to where ever this has rotated pixels or not, if he is reading?

I'm prevented from commenting beyond saying that I've been putting the new camcorders through their paces. What folks keep saying/reading don't match up to the cam...and... What you'll see is what you'll hear about. Due to the magic fairy dust marketing and hype that seems to have accompanied some camera releases in the past year or so, Sony has been very assertive in telling me to release my own findings exactly as I find them regardless of where the chips fall, and that they'll be completely open about what is doing what on the camcorders. they've even provided me some testing mechanisms that I'd never considered because of the nature of old technology vs new.

Spot,

You've summed up our philosophy here perfectly: wait until you actually see it for yourself, or read about it from a trusted source, such as www.dvinfo.net/conf and our other sites (the main www.dvinfo.net, www.hdvinfo.net and www.p2info.net).

heath

Spot I knew you were on the job. Just please hurry!!

Bob, my stuff is ready to go. Sony has to pull the trigger.

That's great. Look forward to seeing it.

When I was in IBC a SONY rep show me a paper with the following comparison between Z1 and V1.

V1 Z1

vertical resolution 800 lines 650 lines
min illumination 4 lux 3 lux
focal length 37.04-748 32.5-390
progressive scan 25p(1080 lines) cineframe(540 lines)
LCD 16:9 211K 16:9 250k
60/50 switchable No Yes
camera profile Yes No
smooth slow rec Yes No
color correction No Yes
still pic 1.2Mpixels No
rec time NP-F970 8 hours 6.5 hours
weight 1.5Kg 2Kg
Price 4600 Euros 5500 Euros

I hope this will help clarify the differences and also the resolution issue.

In my opinion V1 is aimed towards journalists and certainly there will be a Z2 alternative with the same CMOS technology at 1/3 inch, hopefully towards NAB.

Please note that prices in Europe are higher than prices in USA.

Emmanuel,
Which Sony rep? In other words, who was he/she, and their position with Sony?

Actually it was a Sony technician who couldn't speak English, so he showed me a page from his flipbook and let me photograph it with my mobile. I just copied what I read from the page.

One other thing that strike me is that although in their single CMOS chip HC-3 camcorder they use a 2mp clearVid sensor in their more expensive camcorder they use a 1.2mp (again clearVid) although progessive and of course triple. Is that because the CMOS are still quite expensive or that the data from the 2mp will be difficult to proccess? (Lets not forget that Panasonic in their true progressive HVX 200 uses an almost SD resolution sensor).

Any comments



PS Since I'm a new member if someone can tell how to upload a jpeg file I can post the pic of the specs from my mobile

why do you think this is aimed at journalist?

I think it's aimed at everyone, with an eye on indie filmmakers if my theory of 24p in the USA version pans out.

heath

I don't see alot of TV crews with this size of camera in the US. I bet they wish they did sometimes.

I've seen TV stations with XL1/2 cameras, DVX100a's, etc., in addition to their BetaCAMs, DVCPro cameras, etc.

heath

Yes those are pretty much my thoughts too - it's my opinion that the principal reason Sony went with 1/4in CMOS sensors on the V1 are these :

1) They could meet their 'target' (specs/performance) for this FX7/V1 project with 1/4in. CMOS sensors.

2) They intend to use 1/3in CMOS sensors for a "Z2" at some point (no idea when) so they needed to use slightly smaller sensors in FX7/V1 to stop it peforming TOO well, and leave a gap for something else higher up their (future) product line. Classic Sony product positioning, i think we'll see a 3CMOS 1/3in. cam sometime next year maybe, at a guess.

I think Sony couldn’t have fit 3 1/3rd inch chips inside that body considering all the extra stuff such as a 20X lens for example. Every HD camcorder with 3 1/3rd inch size chips are all bigger than the PD 150/170. The same goes for the XH-G1/A1 since Canon only managed to make the body a little bit smaller than the Z1u.

With that said, Sony could probably have made the camcorder a little bit smaller than it already is but then again the LUX rating would have been worse by decreasing the diameter of the lens. You got to admit that having a US LUX rating of 4 for 3 HD ¼ of and inch chips is quite impressive.

News in the USA is most often a "standup" in front of a camera deal. But, the real area of competition is when there is breaking news and war. This is where a carry-on-the-plane and keep you head down type of camcorder that is HD will be important. HD news will folks will not repeat the purchase errors of the past. Light and fast will be what they need.

You see more small light weight camera's with news crews overseas,,,and like you said in war zones.

I believe its aimed towards journalists because a smaller and lighter camcorder can be sneaked more easilly and also because smaller chips means greater DOF which is a plus for journalists turned cameramen. Also bear in mind that in small countries around the world SONY because of the BETACAM dominance, has a positive brand recognition and service facilities to cater any arising need that nor Panasonic, neither Canon can boast. In my country I see more and more newspeople sporting small camcorders instead of shouldermount ones, especially in more risky situations.

I still think from footage I've seen, and not the footage we have linked to, but other footage, that filmmakers like me will love this camera. Also based on the killer footage I've seen, I agree that videographers, journalists and others will love this camera.

heath

Your right about the camcorder becoming very popular Health.
The problem with the footage that got shown is that I don’t think it got white balanced and there were obviously different light sources. At least the footage showed how good Sony’s progressive mode works. Unless Panasonic releases a camcorder this year, I may end up getting the V1 since I'm already used to using the HC1 and the Z1u.

That wasn't the footage I saw. It was from the V1.

heath

This is the one I’m talking about and it is from the V1
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=70864
Its also the one that you saw

Actually, no it wasn't. That's the V1e you're referring to, I saw footage from the V1. I can't really say anything else, because I'm bound by NDA stuff. But the footage was incredible.

heath

I can't wait to see some footage. I couldn;t watch the HDV stuff from IBC only the few seconds of DV. Hard to really tell much.

I'd sure like to get some real reviews from the Vq and the Canon A1. Maybe next week.

The V1e stuff from IBC is blah, oh well. But what I've seen is killer of the V1.

heath

lot's of questions, but I know you can't say anything. It should be interesting to see how it compares to the Canon A1. Now if only Panasonic would throw something out there too!

My money is starting to burn a whole in my pocket. But with some of the camera's coming out,,,I think it might be worth holding out.

or this one?

Gee, Heath, just how "educated" is that "gut feeling" about 24p in the V1?

Health,
When I was talking about the V1 footage, I was agreeing with you that the IBC footage was as bad as you said it was. I understand that you’ve seen other footage that you aren’t allowed to talk about.

Bob Zimmerman,
That is a very hard choice to make and Panasonic would indeed make it worse if they joined the mix. The XH-G1 having all of the controls on the outside of the body is a very good idea because it allows you to make changes without having to use a menu but with the V1 having a smaller body and the potential to outshine all of the other HDV camcorders during day shooting is a deciding factor for me if I were to choose between the 2 camcorders.

I wouldn't want to question Heath's education :-) But in fact, I just saw some of that same footage myself and it's very impressive. Like Heath, that's all I can say, however I believe that others will have a chance to see it and draw their own conclusions before too long...

I think the smaller body will be nice. I've been close to buying the DVX 100b a few times in the last couple of weeks, but I just can't pull the trigger. It's a great camera, but I really want 16:9. So I'm going to take a close look at these two camera. But the Sony if it really looks as good has people are saying, 16:9, 24p,etc, it might do the job. So might the Canon too.

Time will tell.....soon I hope.

I wish you could say more too, but don't!!!

Bob...I've seen it too. Pretty smashing stuff, especially once the story behind it is told.
I'm *sure* it will be available on DVInfo.net soon

Spot everyone who has seen it says the same thing. There sure is alot of second guessing about it too.

I must have missed Lawrence Bansbach post before I wrote mine but it’s true that Heath McKnight, Douglas Spotted Eagle and Boyd Ostroff can’t reveal to many specifics such as rather the V1 has 24p or not unless they don’t ever want to receive any insider information ever again.

Sorry we can't, and thanks for calling me Heath instead of Health. (wink)

heath

I have a "feeling" that we don't have much longer to wait anyway.