Originally Posted by Philippe Messier (Post 820598)

Hi there,

Just to clarify,...it won t change anything if you switch to DV mode on a FX1/Z1. You wont be getting a better low light performance at all. Simply, because there will be still a tons of pixel cram onto the 3 1/3 ccd... In DV mode, the camera still use those tiny pixel.

The only real option is to get a Z7 (supposedly better) or the EX1 (officially better).

Good luck

Phil

Originally Posted by John M. McCloskey (Post 820606)

If you like having quick archiving capabilities where you can shoot and ingest and not have to dump to tape for archiving look at XDHD Cam. The time you will save is unbelievable. Just a suggestion

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick (Post 820643)

To say the Z1 is 'terrible' in low light is a bit much when it's just 1.5 stops behind your PD170. And you can use +18dB of gain up in the Z1 the amplifiers are so quiet - don't try doing that with a PD.

I use the little Sony 20-DW2 video light on top of my Z1 for the wedding dance. I diffuse it with a Lumiquest Mini Softbox and set the gain at something like +9dB, and the results are excellent. This is a lot cheaper than dumping the Z1 for an EX1.

Of course you have to lock the exposure (shutter, gain and iris) when shooting under disco lighting. But the 'squares' on your video? Never seen that either in HDV or DVCAM. Can you explain further?

tom.

Originally Posted by Marcelo Costa (Post 820700)

4-) Under disco lighting I set up my Z1 as: Iris = Open; Gain = 9db or 12db and sometimes 15db, but never 18db; Shutter = 60. Is that Ok? What do you recommend?

5-) My english is not so good, so I uploaded 2 frames that were shot on a Sweet 15 (in Brazil we have Sweet 15, not 16). The first one is ok, no squares, the second one (it is just the next frame) has the squares that I said, it appears when I have a fast change of light, and in dance floor it happens a lot (light canons, strobes...), to me looks like a HDV MPEG Compression Problem

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss (Post 820718)

I shoot HDV, edit (in AIC, ProRez, whatever) at HD, then shrink the HD down to SD or web, so the blocks get very small and, for the most part, unnoticable.

You may want to look into holding off high gain, then using a colour correction filter (I use Colorista) to lift the brightness of the middle range of tone. I strongly recommend shooting with Black Stretch turned on (Z1 only, not FX-1).

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright (Post 820739)

You might try using the MSU Deblocking Filter:

http://compression.ru/video/deblocking/index_en.html

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick (Post 820769)

Now I see what you mean. This is a disco - a very unnatural happening in very unnatural light - they'll think you added those blocks as special effects.

Yes, that's the softbox I use. It comes with self-adhesive velcro and after a time the heat tends to make the velcro 'creep'. Not a problem in the slightest, and the diffuser remains in place and unmelted. It fits the lamp perfectly. With both filaments lit and the diffuser in place harsh shadows melt away.

It does rob you of some light, but the extra diffusion right in front of both lamps means it covers a much wider angle - useful as I use a super-wide to float with the b & g on their first dance. Best is that guests can look right into the light with no squinting - invaluable.

Follow Matt's advice re black stretch and manual everything, including the white balance. Don't worry about over or under exposure - this is an unnatural occurrence, and practically anything goes.

I don't advocate the 1/25th sec shutter speed though. You claw back a stop ok, but the stuttery look to the footage is not worth it in my view. Give it a go and decide for yourself.

For exteriors at night I often use 1/3rd sec so as to dial out the gain completely, but of course movement (camera and subject) can look odd.

tom.

Originally Posted by Simon Ash (Post 820781)

shoot and i gave this 3db of extra light and this also looked good.

The Z1 can handle low lighting but with all cameras grain will creep in. Get yourself a light and stick it on the camera for your wedding shoots but make sure it's a widescreen light, you will be very suprised at how good the results are from the Z1.

Regards
Simon

Originally Posted by Asaf Benatia (Post 820777)

i know you said you can't use it, but can you test and see if you start using Sony HVL-LBP will you get a better pic on the dance floor?

Originally Posted by Marcelo Costa (Post 820800)

What is AIC, ProRez ? Are these editor programs or codecs to use with Final Cut?

Originally Posted by Marcelo Costa (Post 820800)

Are my steps ok?

Originally Posted by Marcelo Costa (Post 820800)

Holding off High Gain, what do you mean? Work with gain as 0 or to use gain at 9db (tops)?

Originally Posted by Marcelo Costa (Post 820800)

could you please send me the link of the plugin Colorista?

Originally Posted by Marcelo Costa (Post 820800)

I use the filter Color Corrector 3 Ways (FCP default filter).

Originally Posted by Marcelo Costa (Post 820801)

Thanks for your tip... Should I use this program with my edited movie after compressed it to MPEG-2 (m2v) ?

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick (Post 820821)

There's no such thing as a 'widescreen light'. There's light, and that's it. The diffuser will spread it wider and more evenly, but with a big hit in lost light. What's good though is that you can rip off the diffuser in one second if you suddenly need more light.

Always have both filaments lit to reduce harsh shadows, as an NP-F960 runs well over an hour like this. I mount mine horizontally sometimes because it looks more 16:9, but in reality the effect is no different from vertical mounting.

I leave mine on for lots of the time at weddings - that way the guests get used to you and your light, and you're not suddenly blowing away the darkness by turning it on.

I bought an LED light last week but oh dear - far more localised lighting (like a torch) and the light is horribly green in comparison to the over-run tungsten. Of course you can white balance the green to look good, but then the people in the background are shades of purple. It's going back.

tom.

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss (Post 820842)

These are codecs that you can use when setting up your project in Final Cut Pro. You'll be shooting in HDV whatever you do, but you can choose to use one of three codecs for your edit in HD: HDV, AIC or ProRez. I find HDV fine for quick editing, but bogs down with multilayer effects, which is why I quickly switched to AIC which is great but there's a barely noticable quality loss (nobody saw it). I am now moving to ProRez now that I have the horsepower to deal with it. I can't really do Multicam in ProRez HQ, so I'm finding standard ProRez is great - but it's not as fast as AIC. If nobody was watching, and my output was SD, I might still use AIC if working against the clock (Apple Intermediate Codec - as used in iMovie HD and Final Cut Express HD).

Having shot with 60i on a Z1, select either the AIC HDV 60i Easy Setup, or the ProRez 60i Easy Setup. Now... when you come to capture, you'll need to check that the capture settings are also set to these Settings. Unless the process is done right (it's a bit like a scene from Harry Potter), the Capture settings don't seem to be kicked over to your new settings, so just check it manually. AIC 60i or ProRez from HDV 60i.

The capture will happen in a sort of Zen 'it's not really happening' way, but it's fairly robust so long as you don't try symultaneously burn a DVD, surf DVinfo.net, download software upgrades and check for email every 30 seconds.



Do your edit in whatever, export using current settings and MAKE MOVIE SELF CONTAINED, then offer this movie to Compressor on a bed of reeds using your favourite settings (DVD 120 minutes High Quality seems to do the job for everyone), then incorporate using DVD Studio Pro. Don't let DVDSP do the compression management.

There are things to do, tweaks to make, but quite frankly, it's gilding lillies.



Use up to 12 dB of gain, but remember that your Edit system is better at pulling levels around than your camera as the camera must do it real time, whilst the edit system has all the time it needs.



With absolute pleasure - Colorista blows the doors off all the tools in FCP, and makes Color seem like a 'Pimp My Software' ride to upgrade hell:

Here's the official home of Colorista:
http://redgiantsoftware.com/magicbulletcolorista.html

Here's the basic tutorial:
http://redgiantsoftware2.com/Downloa..._Intro_web.mov (there was a better one with a guy in an airline seat but I can't find it now)

Here's the zen of Colorista: you'll learn a lot.
http://redgiantsoftware2.com/Downloa...vanced_web.mov



After Colorista you won't. And FWIW, if you ever do green screen, don't bother with FCP controls - check out Zmatte and DVmattePro. The built-in tools of FCP are the bare bones basics and can be bettered.

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright (Post 820862)

The MSU Deblocking Filter is a filter for use with Virtual Dub. Virtual Dub is written for PCs.

Originally Posted by Marcelo Costa (Post 820876)

The ProRez codec I could not find in my FCP 5, anyway, you said that you need a powerfull computer to run it, and I just have a MacBook Pro with Core2 Duo, 2.33 ghz and 2 gb ram...

Originally Posted by Marcelo Costa (Post 820876)

I will try to work with AIC... To save some Hard Disk space, can I capture using HDV and render the sequences with AIC?

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss (Post 820718)

Disco lighting - drive in manual for everything, yes to open iris and gain (+9 dB tops). The square blocking is an HDV 'thing'.

The main cause of square blocking (very fine blocking, looking fuzzy) in Disco light is very strong colour - try desaturating the image slightly. But your images also show larger squares - 'macroblocks'. This is when too much is changing from one frame to another, and parts of the image are 'downrezzed' to make things work.

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss (Post 820885)

I've reversed the order of your questions:



The Mac is fine. It matches mine. ProRez comes with FCP version 6 (aka FCS2).



I'd use an all-AIC workflow until you switch to FCP6. Hard disks are cheap! Then you can capture HDV and opt to just do renders in ProRez. This is probably the optimal setting for MacBook Pro users.

Originally Posted by Marcelo Costa (Post 820890)

When I record HDV with mini DV tape, do I get a worse image? Using HDV tape (instead of mini dv tape) should it reduce the squares blocking?

Originally Posted by John M. McCloskey (Post 820790)

"- Shoot and edit HD, deliver SD"(Quote) Matt Daviss
I totally agree with Matt on this also, it is amazing the difference when edited in SD compaired to edited in HD. From what I have heard editing HDV in at DV25 you loose 60% of your raw HDV signal. Which is another question all in itself,"Why would anyone edit HDV in at DV25 for a finished project?" I have seen it and dont understand why someone would do that.

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw (Post 821097)

Try shutter = 1/30 for additional low-light response. This may result in some blurred motion but usually not too bad; you can even go to 1/15 if you don't mind a noticeably blurry look. Push the gain to at least +12 or even let it go all the way to +18. That may look grainy to you but chances are most wedding customers won't notice as much as they'd notice dark footage.

Originally Posted by Ervin Farkas (Post 821203)

Marcelo, what exactly is you are trying to accomplish? I have shot wedding receptions where the ONLY light was candles on the tables and it looks fantastic with 9-12 dB gain even in HD (perfect down-converted to SD).

It doesn't look like you're a beginner, but I will still mention this - please don't feel offended: are you trying to make that footage look like it was shot in a normally lit place?

To call the Z1/FX1 "terrible" in low light is simply unimaginable to me... in the price category they have by far the best low light capability!

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick (Post 821834)

Professor Pardal in auto-reply mode ...

Yes, to make your 20-DW2 lamp more 'aimable' why not fit it to one of those little hot-shoe extenders that SLR owners fit between their top mounted electronic flash guns and the camera? These you can lock in all sorts of positions to aim the light up, down or even (if you fit it in the Sony shoe at 90 degrees) sideways.

The other way is to buy a dedicated LED lamp that has pivot points in the arms that attach the little lamp housing to the battery base. I'm testing one right now. Go to
http://tnpbroadcast.co.uk/equipment.php?row=9&new=1
and look for the PRO-X XD-L32S for a look-see.

PP

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick (Post 821870)

Exactly right Marcelo, and I have both those shoe adapters and both work OK. You don't need the hot one - the cold one will do. Only downer is they're not 'lock-down' shoes and simply rely on friction between foot and shoe. Look for a locking one.

And don't worry - your 20-DW2 lamps are excellent at the price - much better than the LED I'm testing.