JVC-are you awake?
 

Clearly this Sony will blow the current JVC out of the water and into obsolescence. Their only response--assuming they want to remain in the game (a big assumption!)--should be to take their DV5000 camera and convert it to HDV. Price it under $10,000. With the option of a nice lens on the front as well as two channels of balanced audio, suddenly the Sony camera looks like kid's stuff again.

I think we won't have to yell really loud, but we might have to wait until sometime between april 15th and the 22nd. (probably closer to the earlier date) I'm curious as to what 1080i looks like compressed into mpeg2

what about 720p? i mean isnt a big part of the filmlook progressive?, or will u be able to post 1080i to 1080p.

In my experience in DV shotting pregressive vs deinterlacing has no comparison.

-heres some food for thought, think about in 15 years time when your kid or grandkid comes in from being in the backyard making a film with their friends and theve got this little SHDV3 camera and it look like bloody imax.- im keeping my svhsc cam to show my kids what i had to use!

Cheers,
Ben Gurvich

Guys, I know this is exciting news, but don't think we are going to see this camera anytime soon. I think 2005 best case. They are talking about "announcing a prototype at CeBit". I assume if they already had the prototype ready to demo they would have actually shown that prototype at CeBit (or at least a physical mockup of it).

Basically this is confirmation of what everyone already knew; that Sony and all of JVC's competitors are planning on releasing their HDV cameras sometime in 2005. That is a pretty safe bet. I just hope people don't get their hopes up about the camera being available for purchse this year.

Hopefully they will prove me wrong and announce something at NAB.

Also, notice they have removed the picture, probably because they know if they mis-represent the cameras ability with that mockup then people will be disappointed when the camera comes out. Someone already correctly pointed out that Sony would not have "DSRxxxx" and "Handycam" on the same camera.

Notice that the press release was VERY careful not to mention specs (they do not mention 3 chips anywhere, for example), although they did make a vague marketing-type reference to 1080i.

This is basically a common strategy (and a good one) to keep people from buying the JVC until Sony can get their camera released. The more they hint at this the more people will be hesitant to buy the JVC. Thus, I think the best thing about this short-term is that hopefully the prices on the JVC cameras will tumble.

Finally, I don't think there is any question that the Sony offering will be "better", but I also think you can bet on it being substantially more expensive.

Anyway, don't sell your JVC's just yet; unless you want to sell it to us for cheap :)

Interesting psychology...
 

Now I see how important Brand recognition is. Aside from this camera having 3CCDs, it seems like it is getting a lot of thumbs up already just because it is Sony. When the JVC cam came out, people were quick to trash it, even before they found out it had 1CCD (or even before they saw the image!) Anyway, I’m excited by the camera myself, so maybe I have a little bit of a Sony-Fan Boy in me :)

Again, what about the fact that the camera was listed on sony Europe's site?

heath

Hi Rez Picture Gone
 

Has anyone saved the Hi rez pic of the camera? It's gone from the site.

Re: Interesting psychology...
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Glenn Gipson : Now I see how important Brand recognition is. Aside from this camera having 3CCDs, it seems like it is getting a lot of thumbs up already just because it is Sony. -->>>

I don't agree. I mean, yes, there are brand bigots out there, but I think the reason this is getting so much attention is because (at least from the picture) it looks like it will be a truly professional camera design. JVC announced the HD1 as being for home consumers. Sony's mockup of the DSR-0000 (or whatever it's called) is clearly not aimed at home consumers: it's showing a true manual zoom ring, flip switches for gain and white balance, a manual iris knob, manual audio controls... plus three CCD's... with a year to think about what JVC has done (and which parts have been most complained about) there's clearly much optimism that Sony will address and fix those complaints in their release.

I think Lynne said it best though -- if JVC introduces an HDV-5000U, the Sony goes back on the "also-ran" pile.

(don't you love the Internet age... the announcement's not even 24 hours old yet, the camera doesn't even EXIST yet, and already there are some of us relegating it to "also-ran" status!) ;)

I don't care for Sony's "you love us because we are Sony, you will buy our product and pay more for it simply because we are Sony" attitude... but I will say that the picture of the new HDV camera looks like Sony "gets it" and will deliver a very, very interesting product.

Good point Barry. Of course, if it only does interlace, I don't think I'll be too interested. Magic Bullet HD cost 2k!

Did Sony Give an Idea Of Price
 

I was unable to see either of the pictures of the unit. Did anyone get a sense of what kind of price we're talking about? Under $5k maybe.

I'm with Chris, Ashley, and Daymon: if the camera reviewers and talkback communities keep keep on bitching and moaning for faster tape speeds, better bit rates, Sony and JVC and the rest might at least have to consider it.

Like other posters, I am worried about 1080i--without progressive scan we're hobbled. Of course 108024p takes up less information and tape time than 108060i so we can dream that some day... I know, I know it's too much to ask but--sighhh...

Can you believe just a year and a half ago, all the experts in all the DV magazines were saying with full authority that home HD cams would definitely not appear before 2010 to 2015. I'm sure the Sony will be ten times better but thanks JVC for forcing the HD revolution ten years early.

For those that didn't see the pic, it kind of looks like a VX2000.

I spent some time looking at a closeup of the hi-res pic trying to find a 24p mode on it. Didn't see one.

I hate to keep driving this home, but why was this camera announced on the Sony Europe site? Though a PAL version would be great for filmmakers, others want 30p or 60i versions.

What are your thoughts? We should try nailing down what kind of camera this is, NTSC or PAL.

heath

Is it suppose to be shown at NAB? What's the estimate
on when a production model will be out?

A reliable source says Sony will be previewing an HDV camera, likely a 3 ccd, at NAB. Which leads me to believe my source is hinting at this camera. That could be the answer to the NTSC or PAL question.

heath

More info at http://www.abcdv.com/

Ron

Well, HD is neither NTSC nor PAL, it's HD... so as far as that goes, it should be irrelevant (although if the camera has a standard DV shooting mode, then PAL/NTSC would become relevant for that mode)...

... but considering that we know nothing about it at all, we know nothing about what modes it shoots in, we know nothing about what resolutions it may offer (other than a passing reference to 1080), we know nothing about what refresh rates it may offer (60i? 50i? 30P? 25P?)... and Sony USA refuses to even talk about the product (other than to call it a "mockup", not even a prototype)...

I don't think you're going to get any answers on this forum anytime soon.

However, it is a little curious that it would be introduced in PAL territories, since PAL countries seem largely indifferent to HDTV.

Heath , I think it is pure timing. CEBIT comes before NAB every year. Things get announced there first. In this internet age marketing is borderless and keeps everyone guessing regardless of standards used. This will stop people making decisions until they get more information so will hurt JVC or anyone else who announces until all the information is out most likely at NAB. Nice delaying tactic. Besides HD is HD.

Ron

Good point, Ron.

BUT, JVC has announcement of their OWN 3 CCD HDV ENG-style camera:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=23142

Thanks,

heath

JVC will have a 3 CCD HDV Camera to show at NAB. The scoop can be found here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=23142

heath

I agree. Everyone is now going to wait till after NAB. They were going to do that anyway!!! I am sure it will be expected that Sony, JVC Canon and eventually Panasonic will have HDV products that closely match the present lineup in DV. Its like D8 but with the ability to still record in the old format!!!! I feel the camera most likely to get hurt by these new announcements might be the very nice looking DVC30 from Panasonic. If a HDV "VX3000" or HDV GL3 is in the works I am sure most people would opt for a camera with a future rather than a past. Although I am a very serious amateur ( rent Panasonic AGDVC200 and DVX100 for most shoots with my own 1CCD Sony's as backup) I would consider buying something like this HDV Sony announcement as I feel it would have a future for a few years. I still have a Sony VX3 Hi8 I bought when they first came out and have not felt a similar breakthrough camera has appeared since then. I looked at the VX1000 and VX2000 too but when compared to the VX3 they both lack a lot of controls like shutter speed and gain that are excluded from the prosumer models and only made available on the DSR range. The down side of the DSR range is no LP speed which puts me at a disadvantage shooting stage productions that always need to have the security of tape lengths of at least 90 mins. I am looking forward to a HDV camcorder that takes large DV cassettes like the JVC DV5000 or Panasonic AGDVC200.

Ron

It's probably no more significant than the "DSR 0000" moniker, but I noticed the (mysterious vanishing) hi-res image file was named HDV_G1_hisres.JPG....

Good idea, Ken. We're just all excited.

heath

At this point I'd bet there are 4-6 divisions in Sony working on this little toy. And all of them probably have their own product designations.

Heath, are you a little excited? You just posed the same thing 5 times! ;>)
Ken

Actually, no, but I see your point. Probably because I have so many other things on my mind, I just kept typing it. Also two threads were merged into one, and both the JVC announcement posts were in there. I will correct it!

heath

I think there should be laws against paper releases and announcments. Now i cant wait to see the green flag drop and the b**s*** stop :D.

OOHHh exciting days.

/me still wishes for a 30/45minute HQ mode and 720p120/100/60/50/30/25/24 all in one cam. *sigh*

Without dreams we dont get realities i spose eh? :)

Did someone want the hiRez pic? i have it...

The 1-2-3 buttons
 

I'm guessing the 1-2-3 buttons are memory settings for focus.

Sony Corporate maketing must be very proud of how well everyone is hyping their non existant cam. Basically grinding JVC's HD10 sales to a halt. Too bad considering they will be the only HDV game in town for another 6-8 months, maybe longer. If they release a seperate pro version it could be this time next year.
Sony will gladly string us along to keep the sale, its only smart business.
The "leaked" price tag of $5000 will surely be $5999 when released, or even more is Sony hasn't over estimated how much 3chip HDV componets will drop by the shipping date. Hype Low - Sell high. Regardless it will be 2+ times the price of the HD10 when it ships.
It will for sure be a nice cam if all the specs stick through roll-out. I do wonder what they will disable or configure in a annoying way? No cutting edge low cost cam is ever perfect. There not designed to be ;>)
Ken

Ken,

Good point, but I think with JVC announcing their 3 chip camera before Sony can at NAB may have helped a lot. it says it's an ENG style camera which may mean a removable lens!

heath

very cool...I am going to NAB now.

Bet sony will drop another hidef bomb in a few months with an upgraded professional version.

All Canon has to do is drop hd chips in it's xl1s camera body, and with replaceable lenses it will jump to the front.

I would not ever buy a jvc if I knew a proven workhorse like a vx2100 HDV was available, even if I have to pay extra $$.

The big question: Can 1080i interlaced with mpeg2 compression be tamed with software to make a great indie film blowup??

Don't forget Canon and Sharp still have cameras in the works! (Or just decks...)

heath

A guy on another forum has put up a link with the original hi-rez pic. A number of people have asked about it in here.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-12/74415/SonyHDV.jpg

I'm of mixed emotions about this new development. On the one hand, it's incredibly exciting, but it completely blows my budget. I hadn't planned to make the jump to HD for another two years. By then I would already have that Vinten tripod I've had my eye on. Five grand is just a lot of money to come up with, and it means not buying a lot of other stuff like more lights and audio equipment. I know it's the story and craft more than it's about pixels, and we're still years away from masses of people owning HD TVs, but if your main dream is to shoot a feature with any chance of wide release, it's going to be awfully hard to shop around something shot on NTSC the minute this beast gets released.

Not neccesarly...

Movies shot on 16 mm still do well, as do anything else. I would focus more on the story and quality of the picture than on what camera you use. It's an old debate, I know...

If you can't afford it, try the HD10. Check out some movies shot on the HD10 here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=22833

and

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=22374

heath

Well almost the original. I had to tone it down to 800k or so as the original was almost 3MB.

Elsewhere someone has posted another photo of the unit displayed at ceBIT. Interestingly, it doesn't have the "3 CCD" emblem on the lens barrel...

Yeah, but 16 mm looks great. Probably much better than even this camcorder is cabable of. In any case, I can't afford 16 mm either. I'm just saying, it's thrown my plans completely out of whack. For the short term, all we can do is wait and see. Who knows if this camcorder is even going get released this year. Good point about the HD10. They're about to get really cheap.

Marco,

I understand budgets are tough, but as we always say, buy what you can afford! The HD10 is still pretty cheap right now.

heath

I don't see the HD10 as suddenly getting cheap. It has no other HDV cam to compete with, untill that time, why would they lower the price? I imagine there was a limited number produced, of which they will replace with the "updated"HD10 when stalk is depleted. Sometime early summer is my guess, as I believe they will announce this "updated"HD10" at NAB. I didn't see XL1 or DVX100 get derastically cheap once the ,s and a, models were announced.
Ken