Karel,

That stuff is talked about in the earlier posts in this thread, but what FX1 has is a de-flicker menu to turn on/off. I hear the Z1 would have selectable.

I use MOTU Digital Performer for the serious stuff and SoundTrack for the quickies. I sometime use SoundTrack for auditioning loops and build and mix on DP.

<<<-- Originally posted by Karel Bata : Kaku,

Is that night footage pulsating light fixable on location with your camera? It would be a drag to have to run at 30fps for some locations if the rest of the footage is at 24 or 25.

(BTW What music package do you use? Just curious.)


Michael,

Thanks. Is that conversion to avi lossless? -->>>

Kaku,

I use ProTools and Cubase. Dabbling with Reason. Audition is good for - uh - auditioning, and tweaking / conversions. Just bought a Mackie Baby HUI - I love those motorised faders!

I read the stuff on the flicker earlier in the post (in fact -and I'm gonna have to boast here but it is Sunday morning- with my background as a film DOP I spotted what was causing it immediately). I just wanted to know know if it was curable. Can you possibly do a test the next time you're shooting in the street at night? A nice old sodium street lamp will do very well...

A really demanding test would be a TV set in a shop window lit by HMI lamps, with a sodium lit street reflected in the glass.

Nah, impossible...

No, Karel, I don't use "Audition", I was writing about it for a magazine. I use "Soundtracks" for auditioning loops.

As far as getting out to shoot something, if I happened to be in the situation, I might be able to, but I'm sorry it is hard to make time to do it.
If I come across with anything similar that you are talking about, I will capture and post it.

I'll check 'soundtracks' out.

I hope you realise I was joking about the TV set scenario...

But I am concerned about the flicker removal function:
does it work?
Does it degrade the image? (for instance -and ironically- flicker removal can give film camera video-assist images a 'filmic look'! Quite amusing when the clients walk in and say "Are these the rushes? They look really good.")
What happens when you are in a situation with different discharge lights taking their frequency from different sources?
What happens if you pan across a room and an out of focus TV set (with its own flicker rate) enters and leaves frame? Or a neon light?
Does this function modify the camera frame rate? Or the 'shutter angle'?

I'm concerned because I plan to do a lot of night shooting (because I hate early mornings!)

I could do a search to see what other cameras do, but experience tells me that the only way to know is to run a test with the actual camera you are going to use. Especially if it's a new format.

Still, I can appreciate you're busy, and my thanks again for what you've done so far.

Karel

>>> Is that conversion to avi lossless?
Don't know the answer, but you can read more about it here Cineform Technology page.

"Visually lossless quality..." it says...

Does that have a proper technical definiton? Or is it "Bet you can't spot the difference." Not quite lossless then.

And $999. Hmm...

HDV and DV comparison files are posted. Also, look under the "To find out how HDV will do for chromakey..." thread. I placed a chromakey file created with Reflecmedia to try out.

Thanks for the blue screen foootage Kaku. I do a lot of keying, and will try my hand on this clip when I am finished at work.

Brad,

Good!! Please help me to shoot better ones.

Kaku,

Did you get my private email?

heath

Yes, I've been putting my thoughts together for two days!! lol
I should send it to you because it is endless.

Thanks, Kaku! Anything else, just email me!

heath

THANKS KAKU!!!!!!!!

Your HDVD DV clip set are FANTASTIC,
are exactly what i mean for a comparision test in different mode of the camera!!!!!!!

Thanks a lot!!!!!


Best regards


Gabriele

Hi Kaku,

I just burned the file converted HD->DV footage "Dawg60i.mov" onto a DVD to check out on my 30 inch direct view 16:9 television monitor.

It's really nice stuff...but something troubles me....some compression artifacts--especially when your friend on the mountainbike is moving in front of the stone wall. (All DVD's have some compression artifacts..but it seemed noticeable for me...)

When he disappears up the hill and we see just a static shot for a couple seconds...it looked really amazing. I can easily make out the license plate from the van

I wonder if the motion artifacts are exacerbated because of the downconversion?

Or it could just be poor encoding on my part...I used Quicktime to convert to MPEG 2 with 8.0 megabit bitrate....and burned via DVD studio pro.(I might be sitting too close to the display also)

Or the HD->DV footage doesn't like this amount of compressing....hmmm....

Great static shots...but it suffers during movement. But still amazing....

Thanks again.

John,

Did you choose 2pass VBR when you encode to MPEG?

Thanks Kaku and DVinfo for the clips!

Murph

<<<-- Originally posted by Kaku Ito : John,

Did you choose 2pass VBR when you encode to MPEG? -->>>



I don't have a separate MPEG encoder...I just used the one built into Quicktime Pro and I set it for a fairly high bit rate.

I'm wondering if it will be better to:

Import the HDV footage first and THEN down-res via software

OR

Use the camera's built in conversion to DV.

Obviously, I can't do the first, I'm not equipped to do that right now...
But hopefully, the second choice is still good.

Except for those "artifacts" from fast motion in my case--one can really tell this is a kick butt 16:9 camcorder.

John,

I forgot I had DVD Studio Pro installed in the system that is why I have 2 pass VBR even in the regular QuickTime codec list.

Encode down from HDV directly to MPEG2 for DVD would be better result I would think.

Christofer,

My pleasure. I want thank Chris Hurd and Jeff again for the disk space.

yes, Kaku, you are right about HDV to DVD...
 

HDV direct to mpeg 2 SD DVD is better result than HDV > DV avi for "realtime" editing > mpeg 2 SD DVD... it's apparent...

I'm guessing the Cineform wavelet thing does a better job than "normal" HDV to avi conversion?

But for now I'd try to "suffer" and edit HDV m2t in vegas and then go direct to SD DVD if that was my final output - it looks THAT much better...

Output to HDTV 108I Primer?
 

I've just purchased one of the aforementioned $799 CRT HDTV's. It's a 30" Philips widescreen--and the cable guy is coming today to install HDTV cable!

I have a GeForce 4600TI video card that has DVI out and S-video out. I was planning to connect my pc to the tv via the dvi or svideo to see some of the clips posted.

Is it as simple as moving my computer/keyboard/mouse over to the tv, and plugging in the TV through the video card?

What resolution should I set my video card to? Do I have to d/load powerstrip and tweak a bunch of settings?

Thanks for any help for this HD newbie :)





<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Crisdale : Although.... I think Kevin may be sort of right here.

I've recently bought a Sharp Aquos 83cm LCD HDTV, which is one of the few TV/monitors to actually state it's viewable resolution, which is 1330x800.

That rez is BTW one of the highest you'll get on any readily available display - apart from the just released (well prototyped anyway) 1920x1080 resolution LCD panels.

So; even for the Aquos, which is infinitely superior in image to any plasmas I've looked at, the 1920x1080 image has to be squeezed down into 1330x800.

The 'filmic' look that is being referred to is, I suspect, related to a quite different issue. For instance, playing video via DVI from computer to external monitor requires a video card with timing rates, colour depths and resolution settings that can match or exceed the secondary display devices'. Everything has to be 'just right' with hardware and software or frame-rate, bit-rate and possibly resolution will be attenuated. Appz like Power Strip come in handy here - though I couldn't get Power Strip to work when connecting my 3.4Ghz laptop via DVI to the Aquos, despite the monitor showing up correctly (resolution/refresh rate etc) as the 2nd display device. Not everything is perfect just yet........

I've played the same clips back to the Aquos as native m2t through a Roku HD1000 at 1080i (definitely no possible bottlenecks) to the Aquos, and the video is indistinguishable from broadcast 1080i in every respect - including motion, not filmic - just bloody marvelous!!!. -->>>

Re: Output to HDTV 108I Primer?
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Brandt Ryan : I've just purchased one of the aforementioned $799 CRT HDTV's. It's a 30" Philips widescreen--and the cable guy is coming today to install HDTV cable!

I have a GeForce 4600TI video card that has DVI out and S-video out. I was planning to connect my pc to the tv via the dvi or svideo to see some of the clips posted.

Is it as simple as moving my computer/keyboard/mouse over to the tv, and plugging in the TV through the video card?

What resolution should I set my video card to? Do I have to d/load powerstrip and tweak a bunch of settings? -->>>

OK, if your TV has a DVI connector, then just plug it into your DVI port on the computer and you should be good to go. You may have to go into the nVidia control panel and the nView settings and tell it to detect your displays and that should register the acceptable modes the TV supports into your system. I'd recommend upgrading to the current 61.77 WHQL drivers from the nVidia site (the 66.81 WHQL Beta drivers seem to work real well too). Not all older driver sets properly support HDTV monitors. You don't need PowerStrip or any such utilities. The nVidia drivers let you add custom resolutions in the control panel.

Anyway, the monitor should support 1920x1080 interlaced @ 60Hz and 852x480 both interlaced and progressive at 60Hz. But it's best if you let your system detect for sure and sync up with it. If you have one of the newest models that has an HDMI connector rather than DVI, don't worry. HDMI is single-link DVI and 2-channel digital audio in a single cable connection. You just need an HDMI to DVI adapter. If you need DVI/HDMI cables and adapters, or any other stuff like component cables for your HDTV go to www.ramelectronics.net -- best cables out there and they have some of the best prices too.

Oh, and HDTV only works over Component (Y, pB, pR) and DVI/HDMI connections. S.Video is only good for 480i SD. Also just a small word of caution... When HD-DVD and BluRay HD players start shipping this next year, you will need a DVI or HDMI connector to use all the capabilities as most major film studios will not allow their HD content to be played back over Component as it has no copy protection scheme. DVI/HDMI both support the HDCP (High Definition Copy Protection) standard. So good advice to anyone is to not buy an HDTV unless it has at least one DVI-HDCP or HDMI compliant port. ...Any current model HDTV from a good manufacturer has this, but double check before buying just in canse you might be tricked into buying an older model or something.

Thanks!
 

I appreciate your thorough explanation--I went out and got a DVI to HDMI cord (a whopping $120 for the cord). I think I'll be set now--for any future stuff!

The HD coming in from the cable company is stunning--

Re: Thanks!
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Brandt Ryan : I appreciate your thorough explanation--I went out and got a DVI to HDMI cord (a whopping $120 for the cord). I think I'll be set now--for any future stuff!

The HD coming in from the cable company is stunning-- -->>>

Sure, no problem, glad to help out. And just to warn you -- One thing you may see with your new HDTV set is that it's maximum resolution on the aperture grille may be physically lower than 1920x1080. This is actually the norm and most CRT HDTV sets usually are limited to a true 1400~1700 horizontal resolution even though they accept and display 1920x1080. Your HDTV should report back to the computer all its available resolutions and you can probably try some custom ones. You will notice if the HDTV has a lower resolution capability than 1920x1080 right away when you plug in your computer. Text will be blurred/softened and you can see a softening of a lot of the fine details. Very few HDTV sets (of any type) have a native 1920x1080 resolution, most DLP and LCD based sets are in the 1280x720 range, Some better LCOS based sets are now at full 1920x1080 - Mitsubishi now has a few full res native 1080P displays that are just beautiful. CRT HDTV sets are an odd bunch and depending on make and model and whatnot can have anywhere from 540 to the full 1080 horizontal lines and their horizontal resolution can vary from around 960 all the way up to the full 1920. Most newer CRT HDTV sets (like your new Philips) are nothing more than a multiscanning CRT computer monitor, but with a 16:9 aspect ratio and they trade off the higher density aperture grille or shadow mask of newer computer screens for greater brightness (and in some cases, contrast).

I'm not really familiar with the Philips 30" sets, but the newest Toshiba and Panasonic sets seem to be resolving pretty close to the full 1920x1080 resolution and possibly all of it. I doubt the Philips is much different as it's about in the same price range. My local Sam's Club has a 30" Panasonic HDTV with HDMI interface for $769 and they had it connected to a DVHS player and the picture was incredible for that little 30" screen.

Thank You!
 

Kaku,

Thanks so much for your contibution. I am trying to decide whether to purchase the FX1 or an XL2. Much of my work will be in documentary and museum work. Your footage is helping me make a decision.

After viewing your footage, I am leaning heavily toward the FX1. I think the added resolution over the DV format is the future. I do think, in time the HDV format will need to include better audio specs and possibly 5.1 , somehow, I think this will be the case within a couple of years.

In the mean time, those of us that embrace this format can archive some nice looking footage, when you consider the price, it's amazing. Thank you SONY!

Thanks again for your generous spirit. !

Garius Hill
New York

Thank you Garius and all of the other members for the encouragement.

I was thinking before that true progressive shooting (XL2) will be more advantageous over FX1's 1080i but if the subject is not moving so much, that would include slow panning and zooming like my new footage from mountain, what I shot with FX1 was so much nicer than XL2. Did you see my mountain footage?

As far as 5.1, I am a lot more comfortable to talk about it as professional, you difinately would do better using something like MOTU Digital Performer, bus-powered 24 bit/192Khz audio interface with PowerBook G4 for real surround recording because you can do EVERYTHING you need in the software to adjust and manipulate the situation. We've done full orchestra recording with the simular set and the conductor/composer was just amazed with the fidility of the recording. Tell you the truth, after the recording, he had to reorganaize the players that he could hear a lot more and found out some members were not feasible in the performance. Digital Performer could integrate great with Final Cut Pro projects that is how I'm editing and mixing my projects. You can go to B&H in New York, that is where Pat Metheny buys his MOTU stuff (that is what I heard from Pat Metheny in person). There's a famous super-salesperson there that answer your question.

Re: Thank You!
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Garius Hill :

After viewing your footage, I am leaning heavily toward the FX1. I think the added resolution over the DV format is the future. I do think, in time the HDV format will need to include better audio specs and possibly 5.1 , somehow, I think this will be the case within a couple of years.

Garius Hill
New York -->>>

Why does the HDV audio spec of MPEG1 Layer II audio 384,000bps 48Hz Stereo prevent going 5.1 during the editing phase?

I've added 5.1 to some of my HD10u clips in Vegas and it works fine......

HDV isn't necessarily the bottleneck to creativity that's sometimes being painted. Yes, it may be difficult to import in ways that would extract even more data, but it's already heaps better than any DV level camcorders' going to give you. I realise the audio may not be up to some peoples expectations, but it shouldn't prevent the supplementing of that audio in post.

Audio...
 

It seems odd to me how reliant we've become on the camera to do our audio work... Now, I know for some stuff, you need as little gear as possible, but people have been recording sound to a seperate device for years...and it's honestly not that much more work if you do it correctly. If the FX1's audio is that much of a problem...your sound engineer can simply record to the old warhorse...DAT. Or whatever your external media of choice is. Then mix to 5.1 to your heart's content in post...

5.1 problem
 

Hi Kaku and Steve,

Thank you for your reply.

MY concern isn't so much in recording in 5.1 (something that might be nice but would be a rare thing for me, , (which you are right I could do with an 828 and laptop in the field.)

In post production, I have all the software needed to do 5.1 in post (Sonar, DIgital Performer, FCP, Premiere PRo) but then the only way I can see to share it for others (away from my facility) is thru a sync to the video through SMPTE, since there is not room in the HDV standard to burn it back to a D-VHS or HDV tape and disk with 5.1, like we currently do with a DVD and a 5.1 burn from FCP or Adobe Premiere Pro. I was speaking specifically about the HDV standard in post. IS there another way, keeping it in HDV?

DO you think that a new standard will arise that will accomidate this? (perhaps within a couple of year.) I think people will want to play their HD material on their future 1080i plasmas and hear it with 5.1 or better.

Kaku, I love your mountain footage. The extra resolution in my mind, even with the compression troubles blows any DV Cam when looked at on a HD monitor.

Thanks Again,
Garius

audio
 

Kevin,

Yes, you are right, this camera and the standard may require people to think more like film makers and not videographers. I would love to see how this transfers to film. I don't mind recording the audio seperately if a higher quality is needed.

The night before last, at the SMPTE event here in NY, It was a real thrill to see footage shown at Postworks 2k projector and screening facility. I think this format is perhaps the bridge between videographers and film makers, all for $3700,
and a few thousand more for monitor and playback decks.

Kaku, Also if I understand correctly, the FX1 doesn't have SMPTE,. Does this mean that it won't output SMPTE but it still records it to tape?

If not, doesn't this make syncing much more difficult witn audio recorded on other decks?


Garius

What you can do in the editing process lately, is so flexible and hardly had any problem in finally adjusting the timing. That is what I think and I just make sure everything look and sound natural.