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-   -   Finally had enough (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-hvr-z1-hdr-fx1/47100-finally-had-enough.html)

Jim Montgomery July 2nd, 2005 09:28 AM

Finally had enough
 
Just spent the last 10 days editing two videos, color corrected, levels adjusted, noise reduced, and 5.1 surround effects applied.

For the grand preview I get buses with window posts scattered through out, a jumping fish with three bills, rods sticking straight up with the jaggies. Oh sure all the locked down static subjects look great, but movement is 99% of my subjects. This just isn't working.

OK, feel better now, guess I will go back to the XL1 S.

Jim

Sony FX1 - AspectHD - Vegas 6 - AVI Uncompressed - Procoder, preset DVD Master - DVD Architect

Eric Gorski July 2nd, 2005 10:11 AM

could you post these vids? i'd like to see what's so bad.

Jim Montgomery July 2nd, 2005 03:15 PM

How about some stills take from the Vegas timeline.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmmnt/Fi...many bills.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmmnt/The Bus.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmmnt/The bus windows.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmmnt/More bus 2.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmmnt/More bus 3.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmmnt/More bus 4.jpg

Mike Teutsch July 2nd, 2005 03:52 PM

Bad Day?
 
Sound like you having a bad day Jim!

Did you do it like you have always done, down-convert to DV from HD and with the same settings on the Sony? Didn't you use to use Adobe Premiere Pro? Did you try burning them or is this just off of the time-line? Just thinking, you have a hot computer but maybe not quite keeping up?

Anyway, good luck with it and have a great 4th!

Mike

David Newman July 2nd, 2005 04:04 PM

The double images you are seeing is because you are deinterlacing the frames and presenting to fields summed together -- Vegas and Premiere with Aspect HD will present interlaced images this way only while previewing (Aspect HD gives you for option to turn the de-interlacing off so you can see the interlace fields in all their glory.) In either package, when you do your final HD export this should not be present. The shots you uploaded are 960x540 (half horiz. half vert from 1920x1080) -- to create a 960x540 from a 1080i source will require deinterlacing -- you need to be careful with the deinterlacing you apply OR shoot in the CineFrame modes and forget all about interlacing (it would be nice that interlace didn't exist.) With this long holiday weekend it might be hard to get good support, but contact your NLE tools vendor Tuesday to get the help you need. Your pictures otherwise look very good.

Steven Gotz July 2nd, 2005 04:04 PM

If I were to take a guess, it would be that your shutter speed was not fast enough. When you set iris and gain to manual, did you also set the shutter speed to at least 60? Or higher?

Jim Montgomery July 2nd, 2005 05:11 PM

David

It actually looks good(?) in preview, it really falls apart when I burn it to DVD.

Steven

Actually the shutter speed was set to 250.

Actually I have had a bad day Mike, I guess I was expecting the DVD images to look as good as it does on the camera LCD.

Steven Gotz July 2nd, 2005 05:58 PM

OK, my guess was way off. Are you deinterlacing for the DVD? Losing resolution at the larger frame size isn't much of a problem when you are using such a small frame size for the DVD.

Anhar Miah July 2nd, 2005 07:20 PM

Forgive my ignorance, I think I know what you mean, after watching that wonderful "RAZOR SHARP" HD video, then when you down-rez it to SD it looks really soft right?

If so, yep thats exactly what i've experianced (using wmv sample files various FX1/Z1 stuff found from the web),

one thing that I tried just 3 days ago was this little trick:

In the HD timeline go add a sharpen filter and apply hard, now this will make it look nasty (i know), NOW down-rez to SD DVD, voila the down -rezed should look ALOT sharper than before (granted it ainted gonna exactly the same as the HD source, but it will be a whole lot better).

Another thing you can do is down rez using some really expensive stuff the BBC used (in their FX1/Z1 experiments) an Snell and Wilcox thingy-ma-gig, they reported great results, they concluded that you have to use expensive donw-rezers to get good results (perhaps Vegas native down-reser aint that good).

Anyway try out my little trick and tell me how it goes
(say on a 30 second test clip, and do an A/B type test, you know apply the filter to say the clip, then put the same clip without the filter and down-rez the two clips together)


Anhar Hussain


PS, just forgot to mention , you may want to actually play around with the amount of sharpen you use (to get best results, i said use hard, because thats the only setting i attempted and didnt get to try other levels due to lack of time)

Jeff Baker July 2nd, 2005 11:17 PM

Any kind of deinterlace attempt on 250fps footage sounds like it would not work well to me. It is the same effect I get when I tried using the 30fps mode to get a frame doubling effect that sony use to give me with my vx-2000.

The vegas 6 24p widescreen dvd render template works well for me and gives very smooth results. But I always shoot at 60fps unless there is a reason to shoot at another speed. And it had better be a very good reason...

Did you choose upperfield first for all of the work?

Augusto Manuel July 3rd, 2005 11:53 AM

He said his shutter speed was 1/250. The frame rate continues to be 30fps regardless of the shutter speed. You mean any attempt on a shutter speed of 250, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Baker
Any kind of deinterlace attempt on 250fps footage sounds like it would not work well to me. It is the same effect I get when I tried using the 30fps mode to get a frame doubling effect that sony use to give me with my vx-2000.

The vegas 6 24p widescreen dvd render template works well for me and gives very smooth results. But I always shoot at 60fps unless there is a reason to shoot at another speed. And it had better be a very good reason...

Did you choose upperfield first for all of the work?


Jeff Baker July 3rd, 2005 12:48 PM

1/250 shutter right, not fps. my bad.
I am not going to do the math, but deinterlacing 1/60 to 30p should be much easier.

Jim Montgomery July 4th, 2005 12:18 PM

Et all.....

I did not deinterlace anything that I know of. I captured and then converted the m2t file with AspectHD, split scenes. Did the editing in Vegas 6.0 and rendered as avi uncompressed. Took this to Procoder and converted using MPEG2 - DVD - Mastering Quality preset, throughout the whole thing I did not mess with any of the preset(s) settings. Burned a DVD with DVD Architect and ended up with poop.

Jim

Jeff Baker July 4th, 2005 12:27 PM

gotcha, I see. The field settings in procoder need to be set to upper first if it does not auto recognize it that way. If it did default to upper, then I would guess a field got set to lower somewhere in your workflow.

David Newman July 4th, 2005 12:43 PM

Jim,

Somewhere in the workflow something is scaling the image incorrectly. Converting HD 60i to SD 60i while converting field dominance from upper to lower is not easy. Unfortunately I can't determine if it is Vegas (my copy will not start today -- it has taken the 4th off) or Procoder that is at fault (I don't have that.) If you exported uncompressed in HD from Vegas, try scaling to SD in the export or if you did that try an HD export. One of the tools will need to scale HD to SD, I'm hoping only one them has it wrong.


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