Matte-box on Ebay
 

I am curious about this matte-box bidding on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Matte-box-with-R...QQcmdZViewItem

The strange thing is that it's offered in India and I can't identify which MB that is.

Are they manufacturing any matte-box in India?


Carlos

Looks like a Century to me:

http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecomm....aspx?CID=1080

Well, I did find a mail from last May, by Giroud Francois about this matte-box:

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=66960

Price seems to have gone up since he last bought it, almost doubling. But he doesn't mention the rods and tripod spacer, which convert this matte-box into a very interesting model.

What do you think?

Now if it had side leafs...


Carlos

Why bother with cheap knock-off copies... looks like patent infringement to me. Quality gear always pays for itself anyway, so why not just buy the original. I'll pass the link on to Schneider Optics; they will probably take an interest in it.

First of all I am not sure if it's a copy of the Century, which if I am not wrong it's made by Vocas. The photos I have seen fromthe Century are not too revealing.

Second, if you add-up what the two parts (matte-box and rods) show here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

... it's close to $1,400.

My main concern is if it will fit the Z1, because that model seems designed for the PD170.

(Sorry, I have just taken another look and it seems to fit the Z1 too)

seems you are mixing to models from that seller (DV-Shop23)
he still got that cheap matte box for around 100$
http://cgi.ebay.com/Matte-box-French...QQcmdZViewItem

but it is not the same as advised on top of this thread.

"Why bother with cheap knock-off copies", in that case i would say, if there is no moving parts, no electronics, just plastic and metal, why bother for the expensive original one, what is the added value of high price for a piece of plastic ?
There is nothing to justify such high price, especially when proved that you can get it for a lot less.

No, it's not. The one I am interested in can rotate the filters, but I think that model you mention does not. The simpler model certainly looks very much like Century's wide-angle sunshade, less the French Flag.

I couldn't have said it better.

Plastic formulations can vary widely in quality. Better quality items like this will have more precise machining for better fit, and will use better quality plastic and/or metal.

Believe me, I could tell you some horror stories about the quality of metal used in tools and equipment coming from a certain country, but I won't do that publicly. The stuff I am referring to is basically junk, and in some cases dangerous.

-gb-

hey - it looks pretty nice to me for $350. Chris , there's no way Century has working patents on a matte box. Every idea related to matte boxes has to have been in the public domain for decades and if the Indians can make it cheaper- more power to them. After all , they were ripped of by the British for 2 centuries !

quote :
"The stuff I am referring to is basically junk, and in some cases dangerous."yes , i am totally with you when your life/security can depends of that part. but hey , we are talking about a sunshade you are screwing in front of a camera !
why the hell , should i pay 1300$ for this ? For some people here it is more than what they paid for the camera on which it is mounted on.

it's made by the same company i bought a steadicam vest from. Am sure it's fine, but I thoroughly recommend the formatt 500. Very cheap, about same price or less and you can rotate filters, also solid metal. No rods included, but probably best to get them seperately anyway!

Yes, the Formatt 500 looks quite good. But it's not the same price.

In fact the Geardear might be a better deal than the Formatt.

But what seems interesting in this Indian matte-box is that it comes complete, with base and rods. All kits including MB and rods are more than $600.

The filters can rotate on this one too.

Am sure it is fine, my stablizer brace from them is fine. The rods look fine, don't look very long though and their shipping is quite fast. Good quality rods like cavision ones will set you back another $200.

I bought my formatt 500 for about $320 new. I also have the matteblox which is also very nice and handy to have as it is so light...

Cavision are good because they are carbon fiber. I like them.

I already made the bid on Ebay for the kit.

After some time using it I will know what I would like a matte-box to have and perhaps sell this one and go for another one.

The matteblox looks good, though a bit expensive, I think. Something made basically out of fabric should be costing around $100 and not $320 as it does. A Portabrace for the Shure FP33 mixer, with pocket and suede shoulder strap costs $140.

So these guys ARE overpricing IMHO.

Carlos - if you get it , please give us a minireview. thanks

Certainly so.

I am also planning working on other things on the Z1, so I may do other minireviews.

But I will have to discuss with the moderators on my fee... :) :) :)


Carlos

We can discuss that as soon as we receive payment of the usage fees for all the info you have received here ;-)

Let's see: one for you, two for me. Then two for you, five for me.

Well, it's easy... ;))))

Seriously now. I am getting some stuff that might be interesting to comment on. Just give it time for it to get here.

Certainly more than four weeks.


Carlos

obviously , comments made in jest - Carlos , does that mean that you purchased the mattebox ? I keep looking at the site and it makes me more interested . I think it looks nice. One spec they don't give is weight . Do you have any idea or did you ask them already ? I've always been a proponent of NOT using filters. Hey , that's what nles' are for. But the ability to use a rotatable graded polarizer would be very useful . At $1500 , I wouldn't even consider it , however at $300 , it becomes a different animal. And I've always thought , for what you get with a US made mattebox , it was sorely overpriced , even Centurys' . thanks

I know. I was kidding too.

No idea, really. It will take some time to arrive here.

After my eBay purchase, I got a mail from their Canada rep:

http://www.camera-shop.ca/

They have all the same stuff. Fortunately I paid a bit less, or I'd be quite p....d off.

Not really. NLEs are very powerful, but video cameras need some help to keep contrast down. And on that graduated NDs can solve that before the harm is done. Pola screens are also essential. You can't do that on an NLE.

I couldn't have said it better.


Carlos

We here at Vocas are aware of this mattebox.
I can confirm that it is a cheap copy of our DVMB MKI mattebox and old rail supports.

This mattebox does indeed violate our patents, and our lawyers are on the case.

I would like to warn people that these matteboxes are not made of the same quality materials as Vocas uses, and would ask you to refrain from buying said copied matteboxes.

cheap works
 

folks I have just recieved one of these indian matteboxes from an Italian supplier its working great on my V1, I think its great that a company has come up with a cheap solution to a piece of hardware which is only expensive due to the small audience it atracts. That is the only reason these companies charge so much. Its a small turnover so high cost. When you think you can go out and buy a cheap HDV camcorder for the same price as a well known brand Mattebox it makes me sick. We are all playing with high end stuff here and because of that we are expected to pay over the odds for add ons. WELL DONE you Indians for showing us how to enjoy our work/hobby. Keep up the good work. You big guys drop your prices. Lets face it, its not exactly breaking technology you are making here. Its not the latest RED or SI camera now is it.

OK it may not be quite as good as your top of the range MB but it was only 299 Euros. Providing it does exactly what it is suposed to do and takes my filters I dont give a Damm

The next maon is follow focus systems why the hell are these so expensive, well see above exactly the same reason Come on Indians jump on the band wagon and ripp off the big guys again and give us what we want.

As you can see from my setup below I have no problem spending the money on kit I just think that 200 bucks of hardware should have a a price tag of 200 bucks

I am glad you are happy with the Indian matte-box. Perhaps you bought the new type, which improves some of the elements in the holding gear:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Universal-Rod-Su...QQcmdZViewItem

The former system, which is the one I bought and started this thread, had a different system to adjust to different cameras and to hold the sunshade.

There are some other things that could be improved on the sunshade, still not provided for

1) The securing screws for the filter holders, which are too close to each other and could be displaced 1cm to opposite sides, allowing better handling with your fingers. As it is they are too close to the sunshade and adjusting is difficult.

2) The front shutters that could be longer, particularly the upper one, making the French flag almost unnecessary.

3) The filter holders need some slight mods to securely hold the glass filters. I glued a small rubber piece to the springed holder to improve that, but some kind of securing lip should be necessary. The ones provided are not safe enough for the filters, and 4 x 4 filters are expensive if they slip out and break!

Another problem in the older matte-box holder was the short distance to move the filter down on the Z1, which affects the use of graduated filters. That can be improved by doing a slight mod to the filter holders frame, that would improve that. I will do that and report on it.

In any case both this matte-box along with my Philips PET1000 which I use as a monitor have been invaluable tools on my recent shooting.

Spent a bit of time at NAB looking at matte boxes.
A man from Chrosziel at the 16x9 stand was kind enough to share his passion for what they do with me. Engineers with that level of drive to build the best don't come cheap, what they design isn't cheap to build, keeping every one of those custom machined parts available for decades as a spare cost money too.
I appreciate that not everyone can afford top shelf kit but to accuse those companies that build the best gear of price gouging is naive. Setting out to build the best that can be built is not the way to get rich quick. It's more likely to give you a modest return and a company that stays in business for generations.
Having seen the working conditions and what workers are paid in India first hand I'd hazard a guess that the guys who own the businesses in India churning out this cheap kit are way more likely to get rich quick than the Chroziels or Cartonis. That's not a sleight at India and it's craftsmen either, they have some of the best on the planet but even they are loosing ground to the ones who do it cheaper with no regard for quality.

OK one more thing to add, If the matte boxes are such a high development and that is why they demand such high prices. WHY did these clever engineers choose a 15mm rail system. It seems very strange that its about the only size of tubing that cant be purchased from a DIY store 12/14/16mm are the norm. Very lucky for them that they chose this unique size, I don't think so. Its just another way to increase profits. I know somebody is going to say that the rails denote the matte box size as they are a support system but why did this size be used. I think we all know the answer to that one.

As far as I know the diameter and spacing of the rails has been the same for decades. It's simply an industry standard that probably predates even video.

Say they were to choose a different diameter, then you'd be screaming that nothing else would fit. I'd also point out that the standard grades of aluminium sold as tubing is very soft, not a good choice for rails. Many rail systems have an internal thread and standard aluminium doesn't take a thread very well at all.

This is what you pay for with quality, careful choice of materials, not the cheapest that looks like it might work. These materials can cost a lot more than the off the shelf stuff.

Matte box blues
 

While I tend to like finding a low cost solution to a need, I generally find that the high quality (cost) manufacturers have a reputation for a good reason, as already pointed out here-reliability, quality of materials, ergonomics, maintenance and parts availability, many others.

I am sorry, but I have to take issue with a previous endorsement of the Formatt matte box. I am exceedingly considerate of my gear, have been in the production and broadcast field for over twenty years, and have a fair share of experience. I don't like to criticize gear, but if a warning causes someone to take a long second look and prevents a mistaken purchase, then it is worth the potential negative backlash.

In my book, the Formatte 500 is not recommended. It is fragile, the countersunk mounts for the stand-off posts holding the platforms together are designed with insufficient material surrounding the screw holes, leading to frequent failures of the plastic material.

The tension block with thumb-screw for setting friction level on the French flag is made of plastic, and develops cracks when tightened with just two fingers. and the list goes on. It simply uses flimsy materials and insufficient mass in areas that call for robustness. I have modified and replaced parts on mine and have sufficient experience to say that it is not a professional grade of hardware. This is definitely a case of getting what you pay for. The attachment ring lens adaptor is also a poor implementation. The unit does not travel well. The first one I ordered arrived damaged in just the way my second failed after 6 months of light use.

If you own one and are happy with it, more power to you, disregard this post, and may your good fortune continue. On the other hand, their filter glass is quite good, and I have been very satisfied with the quality of the several filters I own. If I had it to do over again, I would restrict my purchase of filters to ND and polarized. These are needed to achieve contrast, DOF and exposure control, before the immage is captured. Virtually everything else is an enhancement, and can be effected in post.

Paul,
I have to agree with you, we have two Formatte matte boxes and so far we've had the french flag break off one and they can be a real beast to fit to certain cameras. I don't think they're actually badly made, just that what they're trying to do is not a good idea in the first place.

The idea of having something as big as these matte boxes hanging off the lens is a bit of a worry too. Whack them into something and all the impact has to end up going into the lens, perhaps it's a good thing they're so flimsy.