FX1000/Z5 compared to the Z7
 

I realized that the Z5 isn't out yet but has anyone had a chance to compare footage from the FX1000 to the Z7. On paper, they should be the same but is that the case in the real world?

No chance for a comparison yet. The Z5 will be shipped from Japan later this month. Production machines will reach their locations in Jan 09. I think the FX1000 and Z5 will look very similar as their len r the same. The Z5 would prob manage nicer sat, etc as it will have control options.

Z7 may not look the same due to the different len but it is only my guess. I intend to pit the Z7 against the Z5 when they arrive.

I have had my FX1000E for a few days now. I have a rather gainy video up on vimeo and a few still photos / full resolution frame grabs on my flickr site. From what I have seen of Z7 footage I would say they look identical. The FX1000 has a very good quality lens on it IMHO.

Flickr site:
Flickr: garybeaman's Photostream

Vimeo clip:
HDR-FX1000E Low Light Test on Vimeo

I hope to upload a 25p sample video in HD to vimeo next week. The video that is up at the moment is 1080i with gain at 18db to 21db for almost all of the clip, it was getting quite dark.

Gary, it looks pretty good. It's hard to use full screen with Vimeo due to compression artifacts, but I didn't see any real grain.

If you register with Vimeo (free BTW) you can download the original HDV 1440x1080i MPEG file. You can see the video in all it's grainy glory.

This was a worst case scenario, shooting in conditions that my old FX1 wouldn't have been able to. The actual light levels where about half of what it actually looks like in the video. New week (probably tuesday) I hope to get up some daytime footage shot in progressive mode. That looks excellent, very similar to EX1 video quality I have seen.

Gary

Hey, that's great Gary. I'll register and download it. I always like to see what it looks like on my plasma.

So it sounds as if you're pretty happy. I was concerned about some calling the image 'soft'. I just wonder if it's not a function of the user not adjusting the cam properly as a result of not being familiar with the control capabilities.

Gary, I just viewed the clip on my 60" plasma and the grain is now pretty easy to see. What settings did you use for the 1000? Are these default settings? Also, the clip looked a bit soft and I know some Sony cams I've had in the past have tended to soften the image as the available light was reduced. Have you noticed that?

I'd love to see a clip @60i in better light.

The onboard mike didn't sound too bad.

It was shot in auto mode with no gain limit. The gain varied from 12db to 21db (near the end of the clip it was 21db permanently. The sunset type shot was 0db and showed no grain. I have not had much time since I bought the camera to play with it but I hope to get some more stuff up in a few days. I have set the gain limit to 9db in auto mode now with a higher value assigned to the manual control if I need it. I think the softening was due to in-camera noise reduction. Trust me, this camera is capable of MUCH higher picture quality than what I put up on vimeo, that is definately the worst quality you will see from this cam. BTW I cannot record at 60i as I have a PAL camera so it records 50i or 25P.

Gary

Thanks Gary, good info! I look forward to your other clips and I'm sure that was the worst case scenario.

Gary, there has been no mentioning so far in this thread and others if the mic input on the FX1000 can be switched to line input as is the case on the FX1? This would save me and a few folks here a significant sum if having good quality audio is a requirement.

Thanks
Wacharapong

The mic input doesn't have an option for line level control. No options in the menu, it is just a plug in power stereo mic input. It should work fine with a beachtek adapter though.

HVR Z7 and Z5 differences
 

The Differnces are marginal as they both use the same technology and virtualy the same firmware.The Z7 is better in low light by one shutter setting due to the shorter lens gathering more light. The Z5 has faster autofocus and much better macro capabilities.

The Z5 has a very good wide to 20x zoom lens which can get a but soft at the edges of Wide and Tele but its a good lens.

The Z7 can have back focus issues and there are not so many lenses available. Using third party lenses do not allow you to use all the camera functions such as the markers for setting a pull focus fade zoom or the like. Also the camera can not supply enough current to power all mainstream lenses so even if you get an adaptor and by a broacast lens it may not work.

I feel the Z7 lens abit clunky but reasonable.

Other than that the Z7 comes with the MRC1K and the Z5 without but its not too hard to get and the difference is still a good saving.

The Z5 is a much better run and gun camera. with lots of flexibility. The Z7 more of a proffessioanl wanna be but with HDV and not supporting all the lenses your better with a shoulder mount unless you can afford lots of lenses and th etime to try them all out.

Both good though as I have said they are tools and when you know if your going to use nails or screws you know if you need a hammer or a screwdriver!
Robin

A 25P sample clip is now up.

HDR-FX1000E 25P Test on Vimeo

Hi Gary,

Both post really show off your new toy, although the recent post suffers occasional pixelation on Vimeo - I tried toggling it to non-HD but it still had the same problem so I assume something happened during editing/rendering (the earlier post was fine).

Thanks again,

Michael

Don't know what happened to the clip, I will try and download the mpg file I uploaded to see if something when wrong with the upload or if it was vimeo's encoding. Try downloading the full 1080p mpg download.

Just downloaded the 1440x1080 MPG version of my clip and it plays fine. Something went wrong at Vimeo's end with the encoding, maybe there encoder doesn't like 1080P. :)

Gary, I downloaded the 25p clip and after putting it in my Edius 5 software, I output the clip to my Canon HV20. From there I was able to play it on my 60" Pioneer plasma via HDMI and the results were superb!

This was a far cry from the original clip you posted the other day (the worst case scenario). In fact, this was the first time I've seen 25p (or any progressive clip) play beautifully without any significant stutter! It was probably the closest I've seen to that elusive 'film look' from a videocamera.

It seems like the 1000 has very nice color & dynamic range and the sharpness & resolution appear excellent.

BTW, no pixellization on the downloaded clip.

I haven't even began to explore all the picture profile settings yet. There is so many tweaks, finally Sony has decided not to cripple a prosumer camera like they did with the FX1's firmware. There is now very little difference between the Z5 and the FX1000's software so if you don't need XLR inputs the FX1000 is excellent value for money IMHO.

Gary. The Z5 says it has shockless gain and WB . I assume changes by switching these do not appear abrupt but change gradually . Does the Fx1000 have this action for the gain control ( I don't really care about WB but shockless gain changes would be very useful.

Ron Evans

In auto mode the gain adjusts smoothly. It's only in manual mode when you change the gain switch that the gain 'jumps'. I believe this is where the Z5 shockless gain feature ramps up or down the gain to smooth this out. A non-issue for me as I have no need to manually change gain during recording mid-shot. If I want to do this I just set it to auto and let the cam do it smoothly.

I shoot in theater mainly so aim to get the iris in the middle ranges around F4 to maximize depth of field on stage. Can't let anything in auto as this will overexpose the scene so usually set the gain at 6db or 9db on my FX1 to get into this iris range. I think the more I look at these two cameras the Z5 will be more useful to me for the shockless feature, XLR and the ability to clip on the MRC1 unit. Just have to save a little longer!!! My actual desire would be for an AVCHD unit to compete with the Panasonic HMC150 that records at 1920x1080 to match my SR11 that I am very impressed with for the money.

Ron Evans

If you can afford the Z5 I say go for it! For those like me that can't - I can live with it. I didn't have smooth gain on my FX1 so I won't miss it on the FX1000. The FX1000 is a real upgrade to the FX1, I am a very happy chappy!

Can anyone tell me what shockless gain is, and what benefit it is.

Seasonal Cheers.

Bill, the 'shockless' part of it is simply a smooth ramping from point A to point B. So that if you had two chosen white balances, the cam would smooth ramp from your first to second white balance as opposed to a sudden switch.

The same thing would be true for gain, a smooth, gradual change from your first gain value to your 2nd.

As Ken said. If you have the gain setting on the camera set to 0, 3, 9. and while shooting at 3 the scene got very dark ( often happens in the theatre) one could switch to 9 and the camera would smoothly change to the 9db setting rather than abruptly switch to 9db. Same in the other direction. To avoid this now I often run my FX1 with higher gain than I would use if I had a shockless switch since changing the iris is smoother yet still keeps me in the iris range I want of around F4 + for max depth of field on stage.

Ron Evans

Thanks guys. I think I've got to go for the Z5 after hearing that. I was almost convinced anyhow to go straight to the Z5, rather than plum for a FX1000.

I don't understand how to get the best from its progressive options - never used any of them- but there are so many other benefits that I can see for this cam (bolt-on media recorder option, XLR and all the audio controls, hi-gain mic included, and now also a shockless gain feature).

I'm not worried about the cmos rolling shutter; its problems would be minimal for me.

One way you can achieve 'shockless' WB & gain with the FX1000 (if I"m interpreting the manual properly) is to use the shot transition feature. That should enable a smooth ramp from point A to point B over a user determined amount of time. Of course you would need to plan for this in advance.

I'm assuming the Z5 does this by simply changing values on the fly.

I just completed a test shootout in the dark bet the Z5, FX1 and EX1. Well well, I m pretty stumped by the Z5's performance. It almost equals out the EX1 although the diff in the chip size. The video scope tells it all.

The FX1 is not the best guy to pit the Z5 but the diff is significant. I'll post the link here tomorrow when the video is done.

It sounds interesting to compare these three for performance in low light. I've seen a some stills from a low-light test with a VX-A1 and some rivals, but I intend to purchase a Z5 asap, so I will keep checking for round-ups/reviews in the meantime.
I would guess the FX1 finds it the hardest to keep up.

I have had my FX1 since they first came out and at the time was thrilled with the picture, still like it. Comparisons with my SR11 in good light now though make me wish for an AVCHD version of the Z5. The SR11 pictures are clean and sharp and pop out on my Panasonic Plasma. Story is different when lighting gets difficult. It is after all about 1/5 the price of the FX1!!! I will wait and see what comes this year. At the moment the Z5 is top of the list.

Ron Evans