A bit harsh Martin. Of all the users I've read, you are the only one that's commented on this. Longer synchs to get back into record are the nature of the HDV format as I've mentioned before, but it doesn't seem to be impacting others like you. It's also very unrealistic to think you can do 'in-camera editing' with HDV...it just won't work.

BTW, the Z5 would completely eliminate this issue if you got the digital card recorder which begins recording not only instantly, but also 'pre-records' 14 seconds BEFORE you hit record via its buffer.

I am not sure if this is same thing, but on the FX1 and presumably the Z1, after sitting stagnant for with tape wound in ready to go mode, for a specific period, the camera will eventually unthread, and go dormant, though still on. In that state it takes time to restart. Otherwise, the camera will start fairly quickly.

Yes, it is related Chris. You don't want that tape permanently wrapped around the head until it's next used. That's done by design and you wouldn't want a cam that doesn't do it.

Jo, I tried the quick record and it didn't seem to make any difference.

Tom, were you saying in another post that via the Z5 the delay would not be a proble?

Also, can you record onto the CF card and not tape or do you need tape rolling?

Thanks


Martin.

Jeff, Martin- I have been shooting the HD1000U for close to a yr now and I don't know if it is the CMOS or something else but it also has that substantial delay issue on the record. This may not apply to your units but I have noticed a trend. When filming lots of motion the delay is extended, sometimes twice as much (or more) as when starting with a still frame. i have not been able to confirm this but i believe it is a combination of the rolling shutter nature of CMOS combined with the Long GOP HDV codec making it difficult to establish the reference frame with so many rapid changes. With the HD1000u, i have found that if my subject and i are in motion when i need to record i have to start with something still (to get a quick ref frame for the GOP I theorize) and then i can jump back in the action. In a pinch, i once even put my hand in front of the lens and it seemed to fire up much faster than if I just waited for it to get the recording started. I would be eager to hear if this method helps you at all, you might try throwing a portable WB card in front while trying to fire it up if this helps. i can only theorize about the science of why this works but with the HD1000u it does help. It still will delay but not nearly so much.

Jeff- I am looking to get FX1000 or Z5U in the next few months. I am in Lexington, if I came up to your neck of the woods, would you be willing to give me a tour of your FX1000?

Thanks!

Oh, also Martin, this may be silly, but I think you are referring to the style I have always heard called "shooting for the edit." in which you don't shoot shots you don't need. I worked with a long time shooter who lived by this method and while it's not for me, it's not unheard of.

Bryan, the delay has nothing to do with CCDs vs CMOS...absolutely nothing. It has everything to do with HDV and the FX1/Z1 is an example. Those were/are also HDV units and have the same long delay when in pause for a prolonged period despite having CCDs.

Martin, yes you can record to the CF card and not record to tape. In fact you don't even need to have tape in the camera. The CF reader has no idea if there's tape there or not...it doesn't care. For you, the 14 second buffer can be of absolutely immense value. Just imagine when you hit the record button you can have the recorder set up so that the recording would have actually started 14 seconds PRIOR to when you hit the record button!

For you the Z5 is the clear answer.

Ken, Thanks for your input. I am familiar with the limited delay that the FX1/Z1 experience, however, with the hd1000U it can be substantially longer when shooting motion. I know of this also happening with the V1U with trying to start shooting in high motion which is where I wonder if the CMOS plays a role (even a small one) given that I am now hearing about it in reference to the FX1000 and Z5U. In my experience, it is most pronounced when run and gunning with a fast motion subject and had nothing to do with being on pause for a prolonged period (that delay is unavoidable as the tape has to thread.) Considering that Martin is a convert from the Z1 to the FX1000, I am extrapolating that his delay experience is similar to mine in that while you are waiting for the camera to start recording you have enough time to shout about 15 expletives as your subject flies on by. Not the delay you associate with waking up the heads but something else. After i stumbled across the idea of covering the lens with a stationary subject for a sec by accident, we tested it on a friend of mine who had a V1U that did the same thing and she says it works for her too. I think it might work for Martin as well but then again it might just be coincidence. No matter what the root cause, if it works then great, if it doesn't then great. The issue is this is a longer pause then associated with waking the camera up and threading tape and how to work around it.

And a patently agree with Ken on the recorder. Spot on.

Martin, if I'm not mistaken the shooting style you're describing is shoot to edit, which is the way to shoot when possible. I do the same thing. As to the remark that in camera edit is how grade school kids do it, in camera edit is a legitmate shooting technique described below along with shoot to edit.

Basic Training: Shoot to Show or to Edit

I do love the support here, but on the other hand it is unfortunate how personal and acidic comments can be from some when they don't like what they read. It becomes like a free for all.

I doubt that those who make insulting comments would speak to someone this way in person. If you do I would imagine you get into a lot of fights, or have no friends. Argue ideas, but back off with the insults and stop getting personal.

Bryan, come on by anytime, just shoot me an e-mail.

Will do Jeff, despite some of the concerns listed about these models, I still feel like a kid at Thanksgiving waiting for Xmas and can't wait to see this in action. It was actually your wedding short form on one of the other threads here that put the Fx1000 into top contention for me. Thanks for the invite!!!!

And Martin, when i mention that the shoot to edit is not for me it is because I don't feel comfortable doing it myself which is why my last bridal prep shoot i had 2 hrs of footage that i edited to about 6 minutes, definitely not the most efficient way for me to shoot but I am just not there yet to shoot for the edit.