Need suggestions on which HD camera to buy
 

Hi all, new to the boards here and was looking for some advice on my upgrade to HD..

Longtime VX2000 user here who films mostly professional sports press conferences and 1 on 1 handheld interviews for use on the web...

My budget is about $2500-$2800 and I'm looking at getting something gently used.

I'm torn between getting a FX1000 or an older (and now discontinued) Z1U (or Z series) camera.... I have a beachtek that I don't mind continuing to use, so the onboard XLR's don't phase me too much, unless there's something you guys feel I'm missing by running the beachtek as opposed to the onboard XLR's.

Other than that, how's the video quality vs the 2 cameras, reliability etc?

Any other HD candidates I should be considering in my price range?

thanks again
Bill

Bill,

Consider the Canon XHA1 in that price range. It has great Canon Fluorite L-Glass with 20X optics, and good 24F and 30F modes in addition to 60i. A nice used one can be found for around $2,250. Also look into the Canon WD-H72 wide angle adapter ($350)and get noise suppression software to help clean up low light scenes and get it's performance closer to much more expensive gear. I personally prefer the older XHA1 to the newer XHA1S, but the "S" has better monitor outputs, a stronger firewire connection, and servos for both zoom and focus. The older model's controls just feels smoother to me and can be had cheaper as it is discontinued. Otherwise performance the same.

The FX1000 is much sharper and markedly better in low light than the Z1/FX1. If you don't care about the XLR inputs, the FX1000 may be your best bet. But the Z1/FX1 are real workhorses despite their age. Note that the FX1000/Z5 are CMOS, and if you are doing press conferences with flashes going off you might not like the way the CMOS chips handle the flash (some people are furious, others apathetic about this). The Z1/FX1 are CCD, so they don't have this issue. Lots of posts on this here and elsewhere.

The Canon is great and much-loved, but a couple of generations old at this point.

Adam,

Granted the A1 has been around since 2006, but just looking at a few posts comparing the A1 and the 1000, I'd say the A1 is still holding its own:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/general-...vs-fx1000.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xh...x1000-buy.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xh...-than-1-a.html

As with many discussions on the forum, they are not conclusive either way. I don't have personal experience with the 1000, so I can't personally compare and I don't doubt it's an excellent camera. I know from experience the A1 still turns out great results. I just hired a crew for a corporate event with 2 A1's, and spent a weekend with my son shooting a senior film project on another 2 A1's. IMO their biggest problem is a undersized, under-rez'd LCD screen.

And, of course there is tape to deal with. I'm an odd ball in that having gone to digital media I am still paranoid without tape! Maybe this concern will go away once I start storing all my archives on cloud drives, which I'm in the process of researching.

The new rage is DSLR cams that shoot stunning HD video, some 60P! They are really giving traditional video cams a run for their money. Fits your budget, and probably perfect for sports and interview shooting. The 7D is one of the latest offerings.
Canon | EOS 7D SLR Digital Camera with 28-135mm | 3814B010 | B&H
Rejouer?Little Camera, Big Movie, Jon Silberg
Read the article in this thread, watch video:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...5dmkii-7d.html

Do some searches on the web and youtube and you will see. Lots of pro's are begining to use these to do high-end work. The optics are there. Tremendous depth of field. Great low light, lens options. For audio, you can add a small digital MP3 recorder if need be. Good luck.

For a Vx2000 user, the FX1000 would the logical choice, IMO. Just be prepared with the switch to any of these cameras...there is a period of adjustment needed.

With your price range the still cameras suggested are not logical for event work, not to mention the workflow, a nightmare by some accounts.

I went from the VX2100 - VX2000 to the FX1000 and it was a tough adjustment, but the quicker you learn the better off you will be.

I'm with Jeff on this one. As a VX owner you'll slide smoothly into FX or Z ownership. You'll understand the menus, have carry-over batteries, chargers and LANC controllers. You'll be up and gunning in half a day, no worries.

Of course the Canon XH alternative is a good one and the 7D also, though expensive if you're starting vdSLR ownership from scratch.

Note that the Z1 has far more than XLR inputs over the FX1, and the focus assist, zoom readout, hours meter and much deeper menus will have you so pleased you opted for the blacker model, I can tell you.

And read Adam's post about CMOS. As an events filmmaker I'm one of the fast and furious.

tom.

i can't believe people are spruking the canon 7d as a serious contender for event work!

it might take great pics (it surely does), but it's in no way a practical camera for run 'n' gun, event work, or anything that needs pans, zooms, auto focus, decent audio, etc.,

leslie

I'm a proud owner of a 7D but can't imagine using it as a primary camera for event work. It excels for gathering high impact images when you can either control the action or can afford to miss a few of the shots (or in my case closer to 50%!). Except for some aliasing issues its images are breathtaking, a different level form the other cameras we are discussing. The very strength of the large sensor/DOF brings makes maintaining focus exceedingly difficult; especially for a lone operator. Yes, you can throw on a wide angle lens and improve your odds of hitting focus, but how interesting will that be for a paying customer? There is a reason why a Panavision crew has several people operating the cam and actors hitting distance marks! As a second cam, for short vignettes, or controlled creative work I'd recommend the 7D/5D very highly. Just expect to spend $5K to get it modestly equipped if you don't already have DSLR lenses, bags, auxiliary sound equipment, and basic accessories. Plan on updating your hardware to something extreme to gracefully edit native files or add interim proxies into your workflow.

I agree with Tom's comment that the adjustment from the VX2000 to the FX or Z cam's is relatively easy. I just made the same jump (VX2000 -> Z5U). The Z cams are quite a step up in $$ too. If $2,800 is your initial top end, seriously consider streatching a little further if you can to go with a Z5 or a Z7. A Z5 is about $1,400 more which is a lot, but a relatively small amount more for how long you might keep it and the extra features you get ...what it lets you do. Your work will be better in more ways than just HD with finer exposure and picture control, better audio and all the rest. Every aspect of these cams is more than a couple notches above the VX series just because of evolutanary advances. When I pick up my VX2000 now it feels good and solid, but toy-like compared to the Z5. It'll go on Ebay pretty soon.

On the D7, I should have remarked that I don't own one yet (...considering the plunge). The D5 lets you control audio levels (not sure if the D7 allows that yet but most expect it to soon). It may not be a fit, but definitely you should learn-up on it. One neat feature that attracts me is that most people think you've just got a still camera and remain unguarded. If you are definitely limited on funds the A1 is probably the best cam. It has XLR's as well.

I bought a DVD training video to get me up to speed on the Z5. It was like $75 but it really helped cut the learning curve.

Hi again all..... thank for all of the feedback and suggestions.

After lots of consideration and weighing the comments, I'm going to move forward with what I thought all along.... going with the FX1000. It seems to be the best fit for me at the present given my needs and budget....and at the present I have access to a great used one with very low hours on it

I did think long and hard about the Z5U, but I couldn't justify the $4K or more for this unit, for what IMO amounts to XLR imputs and the capability to record on SD cards (with another 1K investment)

Given the current state of the economy and online publications coming and going like crazy, it would take me quite some time to recoup a $4-5K equipment investment.

With the recent sale of my VX2000 for just over $1100, I'm going to be able to drop about $1000 in out of pocket cash and pick up the FX1000.

I think that's a pretty painless upgrade to HD - I pick the camera up on Friday and can't wait to give it a test drive...

thanks again

You've thought and chosen well Bill. And you must be some sort of salesman to get so much for your VX2k in this day and age. What was bundled with it - your car?

:-)

tom.

Okay, and now tape...
 

I've always used the Sony Premium tape on the VX2000, but because I'll now be shooting HD, I'll be purchasing some of the Sony HD tape (significantly more $$$)

Just checking out Ebay, and see the foreign sellers (Hong Kong) have deals that deliver tapes at under $7 per, which is pretty good comparatively speaking.

anyone have any dealings with the Hong Kong tape dealers and any stories to tell good or bad? Can i expect the same tape, not inferior or knockoff from purchasing through these channels?

Anyone have any domestic dealers with deals as good as this?

thanks!

The HD tapes are a waste of money. The ONLY issue with any tapes I've used are the HD tapes, and I lost a half hour of footage. With the regular tapes, never an issue. I would research this more before I spent, if I were you.

certainly agree with jeff - regular dv tapes (stick to ONE brand) will suffice. with what you save buy brand name tape - i use sony, buy many use the slightly cheaper panasonic.

Bill, it is not necessary to deal with any dealers other than media resellers in the U.S. You can avoid all kinds of issues this way....stick with the Sony Premiums and you'll be fine.

Bill. I have a Canon HXA1 and HV30 and I have been using Sony Premium for the last 2 years without any problems.

Bill,

Sounds like you made a good decision. Pretty good buy, too on the FX.

Been using these Sony tapes for quite a while for around $2.20 a tape without issue. Used to use $13 HD premiums, but can't tell a difference and haven't had a single issue thus far.

Sony | DVM-60PR Premium Mini DV Cassette (60 Minute) | DVM60PRR

I understand some tapes use dry lubricant and some wet so it may be a good idea to choose one brand.

Virtually all mini-dv tapes use dry lubricant...I believe some higher end Panasonic tapes use wet, and let me tell you, you do NOT want to mix those tapes with the dry...I did that and had some real issues. It is possible the higher end Sony use wet, but I do not know for sure.

Good afternoon,

Jeff and the guys are right, regular sony tapes or other brands are fine. I have been using sony tapes in my xlh1 for a year and have not had a single problem. Buy them in bulk at B&H for something like 2.79 a tape!!!! I buy them 50 at a time.

Back to the camera issue. I have learned to do lots of research before buying!!! I just purchased the sony fx 1000 for B roll and run and gun video the xlh1 is not so conducive too.

In HD focus is everything in my book!! Most three chip cameras make good color and can be corrected in post to exactly what one wants.

there were some contenders but the native chips, high resolution view finder and LCD were the clencher. I did not get the z5 because it was a grand for two xlr inputs. If you need that get a beach tec for 1/5 th the cost.

A few of the other cameras might do you but from what i have read and researched the fx 1000 is about the best bang for the buck right now.

While I have four Canons I have always felt the auto focus on sonys is a tad better (sometimes you need the auto focus and fast and accuarte is essential).

for 2999 at B&H it would be worth waiting and spending the couple hundred above your budget of 2,800.

Not to belabor this, but:

A) The regular Sony Premiums are fine, and can be had for $2.05 each in lots of 100 at a reputable online tape vendor.
B) The absolute best bang for the buck in Sony Pro/Prosumer cams is the FX7 if you don't care about low light at all. If low light is an issue, then I agree the FX1000 is the best value for what you get versus cost.
C) Having owned both and just having traded in my FX1000s for Z5s, I can tell you there are many differences besides the XLR inputs, but they may not be relevant to you. If the only difference of any significance for you is indeed the XLRs, then it does make sense to buy the FX1000 and get a BeachTek or JuicedLink box rather than pay extra for the Z5. But for me, other issues included the seamless (physical and firmware) integration of the MRC1k Recording Unit, the ability to jam-sync timecode from multiple cams, the many extra image adjustments possible via firmware, and the fact that the Z5 includes a decent if not spectacular shotgun mic, which would need to be added to your budget if you buy the FX1000.
D) Right now B&H has some great used HDV cams, including an FX1 and a Z1, though not FX1000s or Z5s...

Used Pro & Prosumer Camcorders

Hope this helps.

I agree with the above assessment of differences between the FX1000 and Z5. By the time you add a beachteck, mic you're at the price of a Z5. Then you got the clumsy beachteck hanging on your cam. Note: The Z5 mic is compact and pretty good, but I didn't find that it had as much 'punch' as my Sennheiser ME64. I swapped out for the sennheiser. Of course, that's a more expensive mic.

While I've seen some of the footage shot on dSLRs, I would think twice before going that route as your prime "video" cam. Yes, I've shot video on a dSLR. Results were gorgeous. My buddy shot a small feature on nothing but a Canon 5D MkII. On-line, it was as luscious as I've seen anywhere.

Still, dSLRs simply aren't made for shooting video. Ergonomics are screwy, control is minimal, and, of course, sound input is amateurish. The argument I hear is that if you add rails and matte box, a special viewfinder, Beachtek or similar, and steadicam set up, you're on to something. Then, of course, you've spent what could get you a nice EX-1.

I like the FX1000 you're considering. Also, with so many folks seeming to be getting rid of the Canon XH A1, they're a great deal these days -- probably the best deal going overall.

Consider this: With hard and solid state drive units showing up (I really like the Focus FS-5 or whatever the Canon equivalent is), the HDV (tape) format still has a lot of life yet.

Good luck

Dave

Dave's post is awesome, lots of facts. if you have to buy mics then he is dead right!!! A decent mic will cost the difference. Most people do not need all the z5 assets. One needs to look realisticly at what you do!!!


for me, I would have gone to an xha1 in a heart beat if it had a higher res view finder!! I love the adjustments it gives you, same as xlh1 if I recall!! same ccd's. great camera for most things. for myself the way i use it most of the time I need the higher res view finder (I even put a fu 1000 on the xlh1) Were I not filming action stuff all the time an xha1a would have been grand. I think that is actually good advice.

Let us know what you do!!